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Author Topic: Why You Should Be Terrified Of What Just Happened in Cyprus  (Read 1657 times)
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« on: March 20, 2013, 11:52:41 PM »

In other Global Currency Trends....  Cheesy

Why You Should Be Terrified Of What Just Happened in Cyprus


by Graham Summers - Gains, Pains and Capital
Published : March 21st, 2013
513 words - Reading time : 1 - 2 minutes


The markets are staging a bounce today based on:

  • The ECB surfacing to say it will provide liquidity to help with the Cyprus situation.
  • Bernanke’s speech today and the Fed’s FOMC (stocks tend to rally going into FOMC meetings).


This is once again the markets praying and hoping for divine guidance from the Central Bankers. However, the fact remains that every sensible investor in the world should be absolutely horrified by what was proposed in Cyprus.

Forget Bernanke forget Mario Draghi forget all of that. None of it matters as much as what was proposed in Cyprus.

The simple fact remains that politicians proposed stealing savings deposits from the people in order to fund a bank bailout. You can dress this idea up however you like, calling it a “levy” or “tax” but taking someone’s personal property without their permission is theft plain and simple.

 
The idea was amended to focus on punishing the wealthy (those with over €100,000 in deposits) leaving those with less than €20,000 in deposits unscathed. The Cyprus parliament voted against this proposal, but the mere fact it was EVEN suggested (and that Germany and the IMF wanted to take 40% of deposits) should leave everyone terrified.

 
Again, political leaders proposed simply TAKING money from the people to fund a bank bailout… not the people as in the public’s balance sheet for a sovereign nation, but actual savings deposits sitting in banks.
 

This idea should never have been even brought to the table. Savings are personal property. Declaring a bank holiday so people cannot get their money out and then trying to simply TAKE their money is STEALING. This violates the very basis of personal property at its core.

 
The fact this idea was even brought up indicates that the political and financial elite are growing truly desperate.

 
Cyprus will not be the end of this… NO, this idea will be likely spreading in the future. Both New Zealand and Spain have already hinted at adopting similar policies. These ideas will be sold to the public as “well, we can take 7% and the bank remains afloat OR you can lose everything.” And during an extreme enough crisis, people will go along with it.

 
But get ready because this will be coming to a country near you. Are YOUR savings safe?


If you are not prepared for this… prepared for potential systemic collapse brought about by Europe…YOU NEED TO ACT NOW.



Some of you may consider this fear mongering, ...but I consider this being just plain realistic.
How much more proof do you people need? How many times do I have to be proven right?
...and with vindication usually taking a few years... can you really afford to wait years for me to be proven correct ...AGAIN?
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2013, 12:59:54 AM »

In other Global Currency Trends ...  Cheesy

The End Of Systemic Trust: The Canary Just Died
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/18/2013 11:32 -0400




“When it becomes serious, you have to lie."
~Jean Claude Juncker, PM of Luxembourg, head of the Eurogroup council of eurozone finance ministers - May, 2011



Prior to yesterday, if you were trying to handicap how the unelected leaders of the Eurozone were going to react to a tough situation, you only had to refer to the quote above from Mr. Junker to understand their mindset.

But so long as someone at the ECB was willing to flood the world with free EURs (with significant backup provided the US Federal Reserve) the market closed its eyes, held its breath and took the leap of faith that all was well.

However, post the Cyprus decision, the curtain has been pulled back and wizard revealed with all his faults and warts.  The age of innocence is dead and with it died institutional and retail trust, confidence in the system writ large and the rule of law.

It would be hard to over-emphasize how significant the Cyprus situation is.  The EU demonstrated under no uncertain circumstances that they will destroy the rule of law to maintain their own power.  It was a recognition of tyranny that many of us have always assumed was the case but yesterday became reality.

The damage done here is not related to the size of the haircut - currently discussed between 3 and 13% - but rather that the legal language which each and every investor on the planet must rely on in order to maintain confidence in the system has been subordinated to the needs of the powerful elite.  To the power elite making the major decisions in DC, London, Berlin, France, Brussels, et. al., laws are like ice cream, easily melted.

Which begs the question, who is next?  Will it be Portugal?  Greece? Spain?  Italy?  France???

Will they impose a “one-time” tax on your bank account?  Your house?  Your stocks and bonds?  Retirement accounts?

The major banks of Europe are levered beyond anyone’s wild guess.  They cannot afford a hit to their capital base lest they be exposed for the over-levered giants they are.  This, of course, opens up the exposure all of these banks have to the greater than $1tr derivatives market where the failure of any one of these derivative banks could lead to the collapse of them all.

So, of course, the powers that be in Europe must do everything in their power to prevent the world from noticing that their banks are broke.  This means they will lie and take anything they deem necessary.  Including the forceful seizure of savings accounts of innocent people.

The Government Is Your Friend?

Markets have been rallying for years on the back of the idea that government’s are going “all-in” to save the current economic system.  To many of the talking heads on the business channels, we are supposed to view this as a good thing.

This has produced all kinds of non-market based solutions such as the bailout of the major US banks and their subsequent TBTF moniker, the “bailout” (I use the term loosely because this was really a political stunt) of GM and a never-ending stream of free money being handed out by the major central banks.

The markets have seemed to like this ham-handed involvement and have rallied to all-time highs.

But all along the way there have been those of us who have said that there will eventually be a price pay.  With the Cyprus decision, investors now know what the price is: your money is not really your money.  Your bank account is not really your bank account.  Your bonds, stocks, home and anything else you think you own isn’t really yours.  The governments of the world will take it from you whenever things get bad enough.

Look at China.  Do you think if the global economy ever shrinks far enough that the Chinese will allow all those American companies to keep their assets on Chinese soil?  How likely is it that the Chinese will suffer through their own problems of inflation and social instability and yet allow Apple, GE, GM and the rest to keep benefiting?

Think about global mining and oil stocks?  Most own assets in countries other than the home domicile of the company.  If the prices of precious metals and/or oil ever meaningfully breaks out, do you think the poor governments that originally granted the mining/drilling concessions will simply respect the rule of law and allow these multi-national corporations to keep sending their country’s wealth abroad?  Not likely.

How about in the US?  Could the US declare a bank holiday and unilaterally devalue the currency in one swift move?  I will get over 9,000 responses saying this could never happen in the good ol’ US of A but of course it could.  In fact it has already been done before during FDR’s first 100 days in office.  The template already exists.  Electronic banking only makes the process that much easier.

Technically, since the Fed has been running a policy of monetary inflation since about 1920, the government here already has been quietly taxing the savings accounts of its citizens without their permission for decades.  The subtle difference between what Europe is doing in Cyprus and what the Fed does every day to American citizens is that the Cyprus theft is happening in one discrete event while the Fed’s theft drips in slowly over years.

But no matter which way you look at the situation, expect things to deteriorate from here.

 

Lehman Part Deux

What could be next?

Bank runs will continue apace where they are already going and will begin in countries previously seen as impervious to such events such as France, Germany and even Switzerland.

The difference in pricing between the paper and physical precious metals markets will rise.  Good luck to those of you owning paper gold and thinking this will help you when things get bad.  The legal language on your piece of paper is worthless.  If savings accounts aren’t sacrosanct, then neither is that ETF.

Did you or your firm stash a bunch of money off-shore in some tax-friendly haven that probably has a favorable relationship to the British Crown?  Best of luck with that.  Tax havens are nothing more than legal arbitrages.  With the value of law moving to zero, the value of your account approaches the same.

Trade wars will begin to rear their ugly heads as the losers in the currency wars retreat to their last line of defense.  Once you tear up the rule of law, trade agreements quickly get thrown by the wayside once your domestic situation deteriorates enough.

Moar and moar government micro-management of individual economies, markets, sectors and companies.  The Amateur Barack Obama and his minions will continue the tradition started by George II of abandoning free market principals to ostensibly save the free market.  Once they are done there will be little left of the market and none of us will be free.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-18/end-systemic-trust-canary-just-died




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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2013, 01:20:19 AM »

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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2013, 06:37:10 AM »

Still think our government is buying up ammo just for the hell of it?
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2013, 07:24:27 PM »

When a safe haven banking capital takes steps to steal money from it's depositors, tearing up legal agreements stipulating the safety of deposits, at the demand of a superceding non-elected body, all bets are off, and all confidence is lost. That's why people put money in the banks to begin with... for safe keeping. I hardly consider my abhorence of the situation as "Chicken Little thinking the sky is falling." It's not the sky that's crashing down, ...it's the entire fiat paper currency derivatives system that is. They have stalled, and delayed, and kicked the can down the road, ...the problem is we don't know how much more road is left. Better to be 1 year early, than a day late.

Chicken Little just saw his cousin TweetyBird's dead corpse from all the methane in the banker owned gov't mines


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* Can_Of_Debt.jpg (179.59 KB, 900x645 - viewed 358 times.)
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2013, 08:52:37 PM »

In other Global Currency Trends ... Cheesy


Financial Fascism as Bankers projectile vomit on the people

Published on Mar 21, 2013
In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss the big picture of bank holidays and wealth confiscation in order to pay off the $100 trillion error account banksters basically admitted to having at Davos in 2011. In the second half of the show, Max Keiser talks to Reggie Middleton of BoomBustBlog.com about Cyprus, the rules that have been revealed and his upcoming special investigation on certain European banks he's discovered have been committing fraud.

Keiser Report: Financial Fascism (E421)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX7ZXNJZMrE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX7ZXNJZMrE</a>
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2013, 10:20:37 PM »

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Chief Actuary for SS - Raid the Retirement Fund!

Submitted by Bruce Krasting on 03/20/2013 12:52 -0400

Stephan Goss, the chief actuary for Social Security (SS) provided a detailed report on the status of the SS Disability Fund (DI) to the House of Representitives. The short story is that DI is going bust in a few years. The options to fix this problem were spelled out in the report. The extremes of the required "fix" range from an immediate cut in DI benefits of 16%, or an increase in DI payroll taxes of 20%.

Nothing new there. But, there is a "Plan B" for the DI Fund.

The solution is to raid the SS Retirement Fund for the deficits at DI:
 
A simple tax-rate reallocation between OASI and DI, as was done in 1994, could equalize the financial prospects of the trust funds avoiding reserve depletion until 2033.
 
Note: "Simple tax-rate reallocation" means $40+b a year....

Bingo! The raid on the retirement fund results in no cuts in benefits, and no new taxes. What's not to like about that result? The gutless wimps in D.C. would love to kick the can down the road a decade, therefore the Raid solution is an obvious choice. (The consequence of the Raid would be to reduce the expected life of the Retirement Trust Fund by as much as five years,.)

 

This is not the first time this has come up. The Congressional Budget Office, in its 2/5/13 report on the SS Trust Funds had these words in a footnote:

Quote
CBO’s baseline assumes that the Commissioner will pay DI benefits in full even after the trust fund is exhausted.

Note: For a discussion of the CBO report, see my article from 2/10/13 (Link).


Okay, we now have two legs of the government who have (functionally) suggested that a raid on the OASI fund is a possible fix for DI. Lightening does not strike twice in the same place very often, especially in Washington. The idea of raiding one fund to preserve another, has just gotten another big supporter. If the folks at AARP understood what was being proposed - they would flip their wigs!

++


The True Cost of the Disability Program

I have a list, (it's pretty short) of the folks who I think are "doing the right thing" in Washington. Stephen Goss was on that list. I'm disappointed with him and his presentation of the "Facts" about the DI program.

Mr. Goss's report to the House ran nineteen pages; there are 14 charts. (Link) Everything a Congressman (or the public) could ever want to know about the DI program is spelled out in detail.

But, Goss completely left out the most critical cost of DI. The Chief Actuary failed to identify a cost directly related to DI. The numbers are big - $80b in 2012. The estimate is for more than a trillion of over the coming decade. If you look beyond that time horizon, the costs that Goss failed to identify are in the mega-trillions.

 

Goss failed to provide the full picture when he did not disclose the DI costs to Medicare. Every individual who gets DI benefits ALSO gets Medicare.

 
In a report dated 3/14/2013 (Link), the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) accurately described the real costs of DI:

 

Quote
Total government spending on DI beneficiaries is substantially higher than DI expenditures alone.
 
Disabled beneficiaries receive coverage under Medicare, regardless of their age.

The cost of Medicare benefits received by DI beneficiaries was about $80 billion in 2012; CBO expects that it will be $130 billion in 2023.




I give Stephen Goss an "F" for failing to provide all of the information needed to evaluate the DI program. How do you sweep a trillion dollars under the carpet?



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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 10:33:23 PM »

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CBO – The Coming Raid on Social Security

Every politician in America knows that Social Security (SS) is a third rail. Any Pol who tries to mess with the country’s largest and most popular entitlement program is going to have the likes of the AARP coming after them. It’s not possible to win an election on a platform that advocates cutting back SS.

With that in mind, I find it interesting to report that a very credible source is now predicting that Obama AND Congress will take action over the next 24 months that will substantially undermine both the long and short-term health of SS. The legislative raid on SS will certainly total in the hundreds of billions, it could top $1T over the next fifteen years.

So who is this “credible source”? And just how is this raid going to happen? The source of this information is the Congressional Budget Office (CBO); the following is how it will play out:

 

SS consists of two different pieces. The Old Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) and Disability Insurance (DI). Both entities have their own Trust Funds (TF). OASI has a big TF that will, in theory, allow for SS retirement benefits to be paid for another 15+ years. On the other hand, the DI fund will run completely dry during the 1stQ of 2016. By current law, the DI benefits must be cut across-the-board by 30% on the day that the DI TF is exhausted.

This would mean that 11 million people (most of whom are very sick) would get slammed from one day to the next. There is no one in D.C. who wants this to happen. I don’t think the American public wants this outcome either. So what are the fixes?

 

1) Increase income taxes on +$250k of income to pay for the DI shortfall. Maybe, but this will not happen with the current Republican controlled House.

2) Increase Payroll taxes to cover the DI shortfall. I see zero political support for a permanent Payroll tax increase.

3) Cut benefits by 30%. This would be insane – it will not happen with Obama running the show.

4) Kick the can down the road and raid the OASI TF for the annual shortfalls at DI.

 

Of course #4 is the path that will be taken. #s 1, 2 and 3 are not politically feasible.  I have been wondering what will happen with the DI conundrum. I was surprised to see that the CBO spelled out what will happen in its report on the Budget and Economy – SS Trust Funds.  The report has this footnote:


Quote
CBO projects that the DI trust fund will be exhausted during fiscal year 2016. Under current law, the Commissioner of Social Security may not pay benefits in excess of the available balances in a trust fund, borrow money for a trust fund, or transfer money from one trust fund to another. However, following rules in the Deficit Control Act of 1985 (section 257(b)), CBO’s baseline assumes that the Commissioner will pay DI benefits in full even after the trust fund is exhausted.

The “loophole” to drain the OASI insurance is already law – so Congress doesn’t have to do anything to raid the retirement fund. The “do nothing” plan is always the best option in D.C.

The footnote goes on to provide an estimate for the size of the raid:

Quote
For illustrative purposes, below are the cumulative shortfalls in the DI trust fund beginning in 2016. Those shortfalls do not include interest expenses.

DI Trust Fund Cumulative Shortfall

($s in Billions)

2016 -15

2017 -55

2018 -94

2019 -133

2020 -173

2021 -215

2022 -260

2023 -307

Wow! At this rate the raid tops $1T in 2029. This is is a big dent in a Trust Fund of $2.8T.

 

There is an import “tell” from the CBO. In the footnotes it highlights the fact that there is a discrepancy, and uses this an excuse to avoid establishing an adjusted end date for the OASI Trust Fund. (It’s not a complicated calculation)

What the CBO fails to state is that the raid on OASI will result in a significant reduction in the End Date for the retirement Fund. In its report to Congress last year SS forecast that the Retirement fund would be exhausted in 2033.  The DI drain (and other negative revisions by CBO) will bring the End Date to below 2030 in the upcoming SS report to Congress. That would be a very significant development. The CBO does not want to be the one who puts a new SS end date “out there”. To me, this was a cop-out by the CBO.

Quote
Given that discrepancy between the trust funds’ operation and the baseline’s assumption, CBO is not providing DI or combined trust fund totals for the year of exhaustion and thereafter.

The timing of this story is interesting. The question in my mind is will the “fix” come before or after the bi-election. If Obama was a gambler, and he believed the Democrats could re-take the House in 2014, then he might defer action on DI until 2015. This scenario creates the opportunity for option #1, a tax on the rich to supplement DI. Of course that is gambling, and there would be a small window of time to push through a new income tax to save DI.

Then there is the Republicans. Do they want to push this before, or after 11/2014? I could argue both ways, but in the end, it gets back to the fact that no one wants to “do” anything with SS. It’s better to do “nothing”; that makes #4 the most likely outcome.

 

I hope that some of the big Defenders of SS pick up on the information from the CBO regarding the coming raid on the retirement fund. This is a huge constituency (60m beneficiaries – 150m contributors – every politician in the country – all of the Press). If that group catches on to what is about to happen to the retirement fund, there will be a great chorus of, “Don’t you dare touch my money!”

 

I’m trying to stir the pot on this one. I want DI’s terminal condition to come onto the table sooner versus later. I’m hoping that if and when it does come up for discussion, it opens the door on the broader issue of what the hell America is doing with entitlements. Basically, I’m trying to pick a big fight. For the good of the country, wish me luck.




http://brucekrasting.com/cbo-the-coming-raid-on-social-security/
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 12:48:07 AM »

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Forget Cyprus, Nobody Is Stealing from Depositors More than Bernanke

After the Federal Reserve reaffirmed its easy money policy Wednesday, Chairman Ben Bernanke was asked whether the U.S. would ever think of taxing bank depositors as Cyprus has done. He said that was very unlikely but Jim Rickards, senior managing director of Tangent Capital Partners, says the Fed already has its hands in depositors’ pockets.

“Nobody is stealing more money from bank depositors than Ben Bernanke,” Rickards tells The Daily Ticker. Bernanke's doing that, Rickards says, by maintaining interest rates near zero.


“At this stage of a recovery normalized interest rates should be around 2-3%,” says Rickards. “Apply that 2-3%…to the entire multi-trillion-dollar deposit base of the United States of America and that’s a $400-billion per year wealth transfer from savers to bankers so they can pay themselves bigger bonuses or make crazy bets.” Over time, Rickards says, that wealth transfer could reach $1 trillion.

Rickards says zero interest rates are just one way the Fed is fleecing depositors. Others include increasing inflation, which Bernanke is trying to do, and taxing deposits like Cyprus is pushing for. “Bernanke is stealing more money from depositors than Cyprus is... looting everyday Americans—teachers, firemen and retirees,” says Rickards.


There’s another way, of course, to view Fed policy: that near-zero interest rates and $85 billion worth of asset purchases every month are helping to boost economic growth and employment and maintain low interest rates for both short-term and long-term debt. Bernanke himself, testifying before the Senate Banking Committee late last month, said, “The benefits of asset purchases, and of policy accommodation more generally, are clear…monetary policy is providing important support to the recovery.”

But Rickards says the easy money policy is creating asset bubbles that may feel good for now but will eventually crash. Cyprus could crash much sooner than that.

The ECB today set a Monday deadline for the island nation to finalize an agreement with the bank, the European Union and IMF in order to qualify for emergency funding. If no deal is reached by the Monday deadline Cyprus will lose access to emergency funds and its banking system could collapse. That’s especially bad news for the Cypriot economy because not only does it depend on its banks, as most economies do, but its banking system is 7 to 8 times the size of its 70-billion-euro GDP.

About 30% of those deposits are reportedly from Russia.Talks are expected to continue throughout the weekend and now reportedly include Russia.

"‘At least now the Russians and the Europeans are talking…so there’ll be some kind of resolution,” Rickards says.

There's even speculation that Russia’s gas producer Gazprom (OGZPY),which has its own bank, could lend Cyprus some money.

View the video interview here: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/forget-cyprus-noboby-stealing-depositors-more-bernanke-170851783.html


* Federal_Reserve_Stealing_From_U_Since_1913.jpg (83.26 KB, 480x480 - viewed 306 times.)

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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 01:36:59 AM »

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IMF & EU Conspired with insider to loot Cyprus Banks

Alex Jones also talks with New York Times-bestselling author and investigative journalist Greg Palast about the banker heist. Palast is the author of The Best Democracy Money Can Buy and Billionaires and Ballot Bandits: How to Steal an Election in 9 Easy Steps. http://www.gregpalast.com

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_a5vuo3Lws" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_a5vuo3Lws</a>
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2013, 04:32:47 PM »

fear propaganda.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2013, 03:14:00 AM »

fear propaganda.   Roll Eyes

How so?

Fear Propaganda is one thing. Alarming Facts are a complete other thing.
You are living proof that "De Nile ain't just a river in Egypt"  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes

You're reminding me of the time 6 yrs ago when I told Beach Bum the USA was on the Road to Fascism, and all he would do was laugh and roll his eyes. I wonder if he has since re-thought that position?

Fear Propaganda is Condoleeza Rice saying "We don't want the first warning to be in the form of a mushroom cloud".

Fear Propaganda is stating Saddam bought yellow cake from the country of Ni ger

An Alarming Fact is the fact that FDIC Insurance states that bank deposits are backed by "the full faith & credit of the USA". No one has faith in the USA anymore, ...not even her own citizens, ...and your credit rating is dropping like a stone. the only reason it hasn't sunk any further is because the USA starts all sorts of intimidation tactics against bond rating agencies if they so much as hint of an unfavourable rating.

An Alarming Fact is the fact that bank deposits are no longer 100% fully insured by the FDIC. it used to be that each account was insured, ...now, the insurance has been quietly switched over to each legal tax ID#.

While you guys were playing your usual Left vs. Right BS fiscal cliff approaching whose gonna get the blame game, they quietly ushered in legislation removed the FDIC insurance on your bank deposits effective Jan 1, 2013

Another Alarming fact is they are seeking to codify the definition of a bank deposit as a loan to the bank.

In essence, all bank deposits were always a loan to the bank, ...however, that was not what they led you to believe was it? The system brainwashes people to think their bank accounts are just repositories for safe-keeping, ...and that's why most people put their money in banks to begin with. Truth is... it has always been a loan to the bank so they could create 10x's as much money out of thin air, through fractional reserves and lend that fictitious counterfeit out at interest.

Well now, they are contemplating dropping the guise, codifying it into print, and classifying depositors as bank creditors who made loans to the banks, and as such bear full risk of the loss of their money, or non-re-payment of the loans that were extended to the bank.

These are facts, ...and if you are not alarmed by them, ...you deserve to keep your money in the bank, and have it stolen right out from under you.

The only good news in all of this is that the USA probably will win the currency wars, but with a helluva lot of casualties & collateral damage.

Japan is printing twice as fast as Bernanke, but their economy is only half of the USA's, and while the ECB can print Euro's, Mario Draghi, & Angela Merkel have an aversion to printing, so they instead expose their countries to worthless bond issues that in the end will come crashing down when the first country decides to say to the troika "Screw you, ...we're following Iceland's example".

You watch and see what happens next.  Fear Propaganda my tush!  Angry
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2013, 03:19:51 AM »

In other Global Currency Trends ...  Cheesy

The Battle of Cyprus
By Ellen Brown


"If these worries become really serious, … small savers will take their money out of banks and resort to household safes and a shotgun.'' Martin Hutchinson on the attempted European Union raid on private deposits in Cyprus banks. [1] The deposit confiscation scheme has long been in the making. Depositors in the United States could be next.

On Tuesday, March 19, the national legislature of Cyprus overwhelmingly rejected a proposed levy on bank deposits as a condition for a European bailout. Reuters called it "a stunning setback for the 17-nation currency bloc'', but it was a stunning victory for democracy. As Reuters quoted one 65-year-old pensioner, ''The voice of the people was heard.''

The European Union had warned that it would withhold 10 billion euros (US$13 billion) in bailout loans, and the European Central Bank (ECB) had threatened to end emergency lending assistance for distressed Cypriot banks, unless depositors - including small savers - shared the cost of the rescue. In the deal rejected by the legislature, a one-time levy on depositors would be required in return for a bailout of the banking system. Deposits below 100,000 euros would be subject to a 6.75% levy or ''haircut'', while those over 100,000 euros would have been subject to a 9.99% ''fine.'' [2]

The move was bold, but the battle isn't over yet. The EU has now given Cyprus until Monday to raise the billions of euros it needs to clinch an international bailout or face the threatened collapse of its financial system and likely exit from the euro currency zone.

The deal pushed by the ''troika'' - the EU, ECB and International Monetary Fund - has been characterized as a one-off event devised as an emergency measure in this one extreme case. But the confiscation plan has long been in the making, and it isn't limited to Cyprus.

In a September 2011 article in the Bulletin of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand titled ''A Primer on Open Bank Resolution'', Kevin Hoskin and Ian Woolford discussed a very similar haircut plan that had been in the works, they said, since the 1997 Asian financial crisis. [3] The article referenced recommendations made in 2010 and 2011 by the Basel Committee of the Bank for International Settlements, the ''central bankers' central bank'' in Switzerland.

The purpose of the plan, called the Open Bank Resolution (OBR), is to deal with bank failures when they have become so expensive that governments are no longer willing to bail out the lenders. [4] The authors wrote that the primary objectives of OBR are to:

Quote

ensure that, as far as possible, any losses are ultimately borne by the bank's shareholders and creditors …


The spectrum of ''creditors'' is defined to include depositors:

Quote

At one end of the spectrum, there are large international financial institutions that invest in debt issued by the bank (commonly referred to as wholesale funding). At the other end of the spectrum, are customers with cheque and savings accounts and term deposits..


 Most people would be surprised to learn that they are legally considered ''creditors'' of their banks rather than customers who have trusted the bank with their money for safekeeping, but that seems to be the case. According to Wikipedia,

Quote

In most legal systems, … the funds deposited are no longer the property of the customer. The funds become the property of the bank, and the customer in turn receives an asset called a deposit account (a checking or savings account). That deposit account is a liability of the bank on the bank's books and on its balance sheet. Because the bank is authorized by law to make loans up to a multiple of its reserves, the bank's reserves on hand to satisfy payment of deposit liabilities amounts to only a fraction of the total which the bank is obligated to pay in satisfaction of its demand deposits. [5]


The bank gets the money. The depositor becomes only a creditor with an IOU. The bank is not required to keep the deposits available for withdrawal but can lend them out, keeping only a ''fraction'' on reserve, following accepted fractional reserve banking principles. When too many creditors come for their money at once, the result can be a run on the banks and bank failure.

The New Zealand OBR said the creditors had all enjoyed a return on their investments and had freely accepted the risk, but most people would be surprised to learn that too. What return do you get from a bank on a deposit account these days? And isn't your deposit protected, in the United States, against risk by Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation deposit insurance? Not anymore, apparently. As Martin Hutchinson observed in Money Morning, ''if governments can just seize deposits by means of a 'tax' then deposit insurance is worth absolutely zippo''. [6]  

The real profiteers get off
Felix Salmon wrote in Reuters of the Cyprus confiscation:

Quote

Meanwhile, people who deserve to lose money here, won't. If you lent money to Cyprus's banks by buying their debt rather than by depositing money, you will suffer no losses at all. And if you lent money to the insolvent Cypriot government, then you too will be paid off at 100 cents on the euro. ...

The big winner here is the ECB, which has extended a lot of credit to dubiously-solvent Cypriot banks and which is taking no losses at all.



  It is the ECB that can most afford to take the hit because it has the power to print euros. It could simply create the money to bail out the Cyprus banks and take no loss at all. But imposing austerity on the people is apparently part of the plan. Salmon writes:

Quote

From a drily technocratic perspective, this move can be seen as simply being part of a standard Euro-austerity program: the EU wants tax hikes and spending cuts, and this is a kind of tax. …

The big losers are working-class Cypriots, whose elected government has proved powerless. … The Eurozone has always had a democratic deficit: monetary union was imposed by the elite on unthankful and unwilling citizens. Now the citizens are revolting: just look at Beppe Grillo. [7]


  But that was before the Cyprus government stood up for the depositors and refused to go along with the plan, in what will be a stunning victory for democracy if they can hold their ground.

It can happen here
Cyprus is a small island, of little apparent significance. But one day, the bold move of its legislators may be compared to the Battle of Marathon, the pivotal moment in European history when their Greek forebears fended off the Persians, allowing classical Greek civilization to flourish. The current battle on this tiny island has taken on global significance. If the technocrat bankers can push through their confiscation scheme there, precedent will be established for doing it elsewhere when bank bailouts become prohibitive for governments.

That situation could be looming even now in the United States. As Gretchen Morgenson warned in a recent article on the 307-page Senate report detailing last year's US$6.2 billion trading fiasco at JPMorganChase: ''Be afraid.'' The report resoundingly disproves the premise that the Dodd-Frank legislation has made the US system safe from the reckless banking activities that brought the economy to its knees in 2008. Morgenson writes:

Quote
JPMorgan … Is the largest derivatives dealer in the world. Trillions of dollars in such instruments sit on its and other big banks' balance sheets. The ease with which the bank hid losses and fiddled with valuations should be a major concern to investors. [8]

Pam Martens observed in a March 18 article that JPMorgan was gambling in the stock market with depositor funds. She writes, ''trading stocks with customers' savings deposits - that truly has the ring of the excesses of 1929.'' [9]

The large institutional banks not only could fail; they are likely to fail. When the derivative scheme collapses and the US government refuses a bailout, JPMorgan could be giving its depositors' accounts sizable ''haircuts'' along guidelines established by the BIS and Reserve Bank of New Zealand.

The bold moves of the Cypriots and such firebrand political activists as Italy's Grillo are not the only bulwarks against bankster confiscation. While the credit crisis is strangling the Western banking system, the BRIC countries - Brazil, Russia, India and China - have sailed through largely unscathed. According to a May 2010 article in The Economist, what has allowed them to escape are their strong and stable publicly-owned banks. [10]

Professor Kurt von Mettenheim of the Sao Paulo Business School of Brazil writes, ''The credit policies of BRIC government banks help explain why these countries experienced shorter and milder economic downturns during 2007-2008.'' [11] Government banks countered the effects of the financial crisis by providing counter-cyclical credit and greater client confidence.

Russia is an Eastern European country that weathered the credit crisis although being very close to the eurozone. According to a March 2010 article in Forbes:

Quote

As in other countries, the [2008] crisis prompted the state to take on a greater role in the banking system. State-owned systemic banks … have been used to carry out anti-crisis measures, such as driving growth in lending (however limited) and supporting private institutions. [12]


In the 1998 Asian crisis, many Russians who had put all their savings in private banks lost everything; and the credit crisis of 2008 has reinforced their distrust of private banks. Russian businesses as well as individuals have turned to their government-owned banks as the more trustworthy alternative. [13] As a result, state-owned banks are expected to continue dominating the Russian banking industry for the foreseeable future. [14]

The entire eurozone conundrum is unnecessary. It is the result of too little money in a system in which the money supply is fixed, and the eurozone governments and their central banks cannot issue their own currencies. There are insufficient euros to pay principal plus interest in a pyramid scheme in which only the principal is injected by the banks that create money as ''bank credit'' on their books.

A central bank with the power to issue money could remedy that systemic flaw, by injecting the liquidity needed to jumpstart the economy and turn back the tide of austerity choking the people.

The push to confiscate the savings of hard-working Cypriot citizens is a shot across the bow for every working person in the world, a wake-up call to the perils of a system in which tiny cadres of elites call the shots and the rest of us pay the price. When we finally pull back the veils of power to expose the men pulling the levers in an age-old game they devised, we will see that prosperity is indeed possible for all.


Notes:

[1.]  See  http://moneymorning.com/2013/03/19/why-the-cyprus-bailout-could-set-banking-back-300-years/

[2.]  See  http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39507.html

[3.]  See A Primer on Open Bank Resolution <-- pdf file

[4.]  See  Open Bank Resolution <-- pdf file

[5.]  See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking

[6.]  See  http://moneymorning.com/2013/03/19/why-the-cyprus-bailout-could-set-banking-back-300-years/

[7.]  See  http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2013/03/16/the-cyprus-precedent/

[8.]  See  http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/business/jpmorgans-follies-for-all-to-see-in-a-senate-report.html?_r=0

[9.]  See  http://wallstreetonparade.com/2013/03/senate-censors-part-of-report-on-jpmorgan-about-its-stock-trading/

[10.] See  http://www.economist.com/node/16078466

[11.] See  http://www.academia.edu/1679005/Observations_on_Banking_in_BRIC_Countries

[12.] See  http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/15/russia-banks-crisis-business-oxford-analytica.html

[13.] See  http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/19/russia-banks-outlook-idUSL6E7NF4NN20111219

[14.] See http://www.economist.com/node/18182262

Ellen Brown is an attorney and president of the Public Banking Institute, http://www.PublicBankingInstitute.org. In Web of Debt, her latest of 11 books, she shows how a private cartel has usurped the power to create money from the people themselves, and how we the people can get it back. Her websites are http://www.WebofDebt.com and http://www.EllenBrown.com. For more on the public bank solution and for details of the June 2013 Public Banking Institute conference in San Rafael, California, see: http://www.PublicBankingInstitute.org.
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2013, 05:21:15 PM »

 In other Global Currency Trends ...  Cheesy

RUSSIAN WARNING
22 March 2013  11:27




NICOSIA – A web site on Friday claims to have seen an urgent bulletin from the Russian Foreign Ministry sent to its embassies all over the world advising both Russian citizens and companies to begin divesting their assets from Western banking and financial institutions “immediately”.

The site said the Kremlin feared grow that both the European Union and United States were preparing for the largest theft of private wealth in modern history.

According to this “urgent bulletin,” this warning is being made at the behest of Prime Minister Medvedev who earlier today warned against the Western banking systems actions against EU Member Cyprus.

“All possible mistakes that could be made have been made by them, the measure that was proposed is of a confiscation nature, and unprecedented in its character. I can’t compare it with anything but ... decisions made by Soviet authorities ... when they didn’t think much about the savings of their population. But we are living in the 21st century, under market economic conditions. Everybody has been insisting that ownership rights should be respected.,” he said on Thursday.

The story on the site “What does it mean. com” was written by Sorcha Faal without further elaboration.

http://www.incyprus.com.cy/en-gb/Showbiz/4118/33749/russian-warning
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2013, 05:50:15 PM »

In other Global Currency Trends ... Cheesy

Argentina Makes Grab for Pensions Amid Crisis
By MATT MOFFETT



Argentina's President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner speaks next to Economy
Minister Carlos Fernandez (right) at the National Social Security Administration
in Buenos Aires on Monday


BUENOS AIRES -- Hemmed in by the global financial squeeze and commodities slump, Argentina's leftist government has seemingly found a novel way to find the money to stay afloat: cracking open the piggybank of the nation's private pension system.

The government proposed to nationalize the private pensions, which would provide it with much of the cash it needs to meet debt payments and avoid a second default this decade.

The move came as wealthy nations unveiled fresh steps to fight the credit crunch. The U.S. Federal Reserve said it would bolster money-market funds, which have faced withdrawals, by lending as much as $540 billion to the industry. France said it would inject $14 billion into six banks on condition they agree to increase their lending. In a sign banks were a little more willing to lend to each other, the London interbank offered rate, a benchmark for many business and consumer loans, again declined.

Argentine President Cristina Kirchner said the move to take over the private pension system was aimed at protecting investors from losses resulting from global market turmoil. Funds in the system, which is parallel to a government pension system, are administered by financial firms. The private system has about $30 billion in assets and generates about $5 billion in new contributions each year.

While no one knows for sure what the government would do with the private system, economists said nationalization would let the government raid new pension contributions to cover short-term debts due in coming years.

Argentina's financing needs are growing quickly as the global financial squeeze pushes down prices of its commodity exports, such as soybeans. Coupled with unchecked government spending, the commodity downturn has carved a gap of around $10 billion to $11 billion in what Argentina must pay on its debt between now and the end of 2009, according to economists. The payments are from debt restructured after a 2001 default and new debt issued locally.

Budget Gaps
The economic turmoil of recent months has exposed budget gaps in many emerging nations. They've run smaller budget deficits, but thanks less to spending restraint than to the income bonanza. Now they're being forced to make tough choices: Mexico this week said it will run a budget deficit next year of 1.8% of annual output rather than a balanced budget as planned.


Argentina is doubly hurt. Having stiffed creditors as recently as 2001, it has few prospects of returning to international lending markets soon. Economists who were critical of the nationalization proposal said it reinforced Argentina's image as a renegade in financial circles.

The private pension system was created as an alternative to state pension funds in 1994, when conservative President Carlos Saúl Menem ran Argentina and free-market policies were in vogue in Latin America. Countries in the region followed the example of Chile, which had privatized pensions in 1981. In Argentina, workers have the option of paying into individual retirement accounts run by pension funds rather than the government.

Three million Argentines do so. They can track their accounts and have some say over how the pension funds invest the money, making the system somewhat like U.S. 401(k) accounts. After a nationalization, it's presumed the government-run system would absorb the private funds.

The Latin American system has helped create a large pool of domestic savings that can fund local capital markets and lend money for projects like toll roads. In Argentina, Mexico and Chile, pension funds are among the biggest players in local stock markets, helping young companies get access to capital.

The main Merval Argentine stock index tumbled 12% on Tuesday, largely on fears that the market would atrophy if the government used new pension contributions to pay debt rather than let it go into the capital markets.

The head of the Argentine association of private pension funds, Sebastian Palla, blasted the government step. He said that since their 1994 inception, the funds have had a 13.9% average annual return.

'Accessible Source'
President Kirchner painted the move as an attempt to help workers weather the financial crisis. The value of private retirement accounts in Argentina has probably fallen in recent months due to a declining stock market, economists say. President Kirchner said in a speech: "The main member countries of the [Group of Eight] are adopting a policy of protection of the banks and, in our case, we are protecting the workers and retirees."

Buenos Aires economist Aldo Abram, among many other economists, wasn't buying that argument. "They were in a tight situation and this was an accessible source of funds," he said

The step requires approval of Congress, where the governing Peronist party has a majority. Opposition leader Elisa Carrió vowed to contest it, saying, "The government measures aren't designed to better the retirement system but rather to plunder the funds of the retirees."

Still, the proposal is likely to pass, said Alberto Bernal-Leon, head of macroeconomic strategy at Bulltick Capital Markets in Miami. He noted that Argentina will have elections next year, and said access to pension funds would make it easier for the government to muster support through patronage.

One pension-fund head who is opposed to a takeover suggested that contributors inundate the government with lawsuits. Even if they don't heed that call, the move is expected to face legal challenges.

In a history replete with financial crises, Argentines have had lots of experience with the government meddling with their money. Prior to the 2001 economic collapse, when the government was trying to maintain the peso at parity to the dollar, the government placed limits on bank withdrawals. Later, it issued a decree converting dollar-denominated deposits to pesos.

Argentina has been largely shut out of international capital markets since 2001, when it declared the largest sovereign-debt default ever.

"With the [latest] announcement, the custom of violating the rules of the game has been repeated, which deepens the lack of confidence," political analyst Rosendo Fraga wrote in the Buenos Aires daily La Nacion.

The Argentine economy has been buoyed the past five years by rising prices for the agricultural commodities. It also got a hand from Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, whose government bought billions of dollars of Argentine debt in recent years. But prices of commodities such as soybeans have plunged in recent months, and Mr. Chávez is facing his own problems with the sharply lower price of oil.

Mr. Abram, the economist, said a pension takeover would help the government close about half the gap in funds needed for its debt service, as pension contributions go into public coffers rather than private ones. He said the rest of the funding needs could be obtained from a state-run bank or by dipping into currency reserves.

José Piñera, a former Chilean cabinet minister who pioneered the privatized pension system and has served as a consultant to many other countries that have implemented it, called the nationalization proposal "just another step in Argentina's 100-year 'road to underdevelopment.'"

—David Luhnow contributed to this article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122460155879054331.html
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2013, 06:13:46 PM »

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Cypriot savers to lose 20% of their money

Cyprus and international lenders have managed to strike a long-awaited agreement on taxing bank deposits of over 100-thousand euros held with the country's biggest bank. Customers who keep large sums of money in other banks will also be forced to sacrifice part of their savings to the country's ailing economy.

Wow, if the holders of sizeable account valued at over 100,000 euro are indeed Russian mobsters, oligarchs, and former KGB... there is gonna be some serious hell to pay. Steal from people, and they scream & cry, then roll over and passively accept it, ...but you steal from mobsters... you might as well off yourself yourself, ...it would be a kinder & gentler, and far more compassionate end.

Bailout Closing: Cyprus & lenders agree on taxing deposits

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wtSmcaBnf0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wtSmcaBnf0</a>
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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2013, 09:36:53 PM »


In other Global Currency Trends ...  Cheesy

The entire eurozone conundrum is unnecessary. It is the result of too little money in a system in which the money supply is fixed, and the eurozone governments and their central banks cannot issue their own currencies. There are insufficient euros to pay principal plus interest in a pyramid scheme in which only the principal is injected by the banks that create money as ''bank credit'' on their books.

A central bank with the power to issue money could remedy that systemic flaw, by injecting the liquidity needed to jumpstart the economy and turn back the tide of austerity choking the people.


Can you now see what Meyer Amschel Rothschild was refering to when he said "Give me control over a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes it's laws" Cyprus has no control over it's own money supply, ...and neither does the USA.



How To be A Crook

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oHbwdNcHbc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oHbwdNcHbc</a>
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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 05:54:43 AM »

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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 07:36:17 AM »

In other Global Currency Trends ...  Cheesy

Get all your money out of Europe now
By: Marco Giannangeli and Tracey Boles
Published: Sun March 24, 2013




BRITISH expats living across Europe were warned last night to take their money out of foreign banks in the wake of the Cyprus financial crisis.

Ukip leader Nigel Farage told the party’s spring conference that savings held in countries where the euro is the currency are no longer safe.

His warning came as Cyprus last night gave in to EU and International Monetary Fund demands for a 20 per cent levy on deposits over 100,000 euros at the Bank of Cyprus and a four per cent levy on deposits of the same amount at other banks.

Yesterday Mr Farage said: “The appalling events in Cyprus over the course of the past week have surpassed even my direst of predictions.

“Even I didn’t think that they would stoop to stealing money from people’s bank accounts. I find that astonishing.

“There are 750,000 British people who own properties, or who live, many of them in retirement down in Spain.

“Our message to expats now that the EU has crossed this line, must be: Get your money out of there while you’ve still got a chance.”

He also urged Chancellor George Osborne to make it clear that Britain would never seize money in this way in the hope it can benefit from a huge flight of money out of the eurozone.

His stark “get your money out” warning came as Cyprus raced to qualify for a vital international bailout to avoid a potential bankruptcy that would engulf 12,000 British expat pensioners from midnight tomorrow. The tiny island nation needs to raise 5.8billion euro (£4.95billion) to secure a 10billion euro European rescue that would help it to stay in the currency.

The tax would apply to any Briton with a Cypriot bank account including the 3,000 British servicemen and women. An estimated 25,000 Britons live on Cyprus.

The European Central Bank had said that, after tomorrow, it would pull the plug on further financial assistance for Cyprus’s troubled banks unless a deal was in place. This left the island’s 56 MPs with an unenviable choice, to impose strict curbs on the movement of money and to put the country’s largest banks into receivership or face exit from the euro and a dramatic economic crash.

Earlier yesterday it looked as if Cyprus may have to impose a larger levy on deposits, up to 25 per cent.

The tax has fuelled fears of a run on Cypriot banks if they reopen on Tuesday.

Its banks have been closed for more than a week since the levy was proposed, triggering widespread outrage in Cyprus.

The British Government has frozen £1.2million in state pension payments due to 12,000 Britons living in Cyprus to prevent it being grabbed in a bailout deal.

However, British banks face a £1.3billion exposure to a wholesale collapse of the banking system in Cyprus.

The country is still a major trading partner for the UK.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/386559/Get-all-your-money-out-of-Europe-now
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2013, 07:39:27 AM »

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Take Money Out of Politics!


« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 08:35:04 AM »

How so?

Fear Propaganda is one thing. Alarming Facts are a complete other thing.
You are living proof that "De Nile ain't just a river in Egypt"  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes

You're reminding me of the time 6 yrs ago when I told Beach Bum the USA was on the Road to Fascism, and all he would do was laugh and roll his eyes. I wonder if he has since re-thought that position?

Fear Propaganda is Condoleeza Rice saying "We don't want the first warning to be in the form of a mushroom cloud".

Fear Propaganda is stating Saddam bought yellow cake from the country of Ni ger

An Alarming Fact is the fact that FDIC Insurance states that bank deposits are backed by "the full faith & credit of the USA". No one has faith in the USA anymore, ...not even her own citizens, ...and your credit rating is dropping like a stone. the only reason it hasn't sunk any further is because the USA starts all sorts of intimidation tactics against bond rating agencies if they so much as hint of an unfavourable rating.

An Alarming Fact is the fact that bank deposits are no longer 100% fully insured by the FDIC. it used to be that each account was insured, ...now, the insurance has been quietly switched over to each legal tax ID#.

While you guys were playing your usual Left vs. Right BS fiscal cliff approaching whose gonna get the blame game, they quietly ushered in legislation removed the FDIC insurance on your bank deposits effective Jan 1, 2013

Another Alarming fact is they are seeking to codify the definition of a bank deposit as a loan to the bank.

In essence, all bank deposits were always a loan to the bank, ...however, that was not what they led you to believe was it? The system brainwashes people to think their bank accounts are just repositories for safe-keeping, ...and that's why most people put their money in banks to begin with. Truth is... it has always been a loan to the bank so they could create 10x's as much money out of thin air, through fractional reserves and lend that fictitious counterfeit out at interest.

Well now, they are contemplating dropping the guise, codifying it into print, and classifying depositors as bank creditors who made loans to the banks, and as such bear full risk of the loss of their money, or non-re-payment of the loans that were extended to the bank.

These are facts, ...and if you are not alarmed by them, ...you deserve to keep your money in the bank, and have it stolen right out from under you.

The only good news in all of this is that the USA probably will win the currency wars, but with a helluva lot of casualties & collateral damage.

Japan is printing twice as fast as Bernanke, but their economy is only half of the USA's, and while the ECB can print Euro's, Mario Draghi, & Angela Merkel have an aversion to printing, so they instead expose their countries to worthless bond issues that in the end will come crashing down when the first country decides to say to the troika "Screw you, ...we're following Iceland's example".

You watch and see what happens next.  Fear Propaganda my tush!  Angry


Oh please oh please dear god in heaven, please ruin America so i can sell more of my gold network!
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 09:04:21 AM »

Oh please oh please dear god in heaven, please ruin America so i can sell more of my gold network!

Why isn't she banned?
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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 09:12:30 AM »

RUH ROH!

PRECIOUS-Gold slips to ten-day low on Cyprus deal
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/markets-precious-idUSL3N0CH1GP20130325

* SPDR holdings fall to lowest since July 2011

"LONDON, March 25 (Reuters) - Gold extended initial losses on Monday, hitting its lowest in ten days as investors unloaded safe-haven assets and sought equities after Cyprus struck a last-minute bailout deal with lenders.

After breaking strong technical support at $1,600, the metal is now vulnerable to further losses. The next downside targets now stand between $1,550 and $1,560, traders said."

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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2013, 09:33:52 AM »

Why isn't she banned?

Yeah, why isn't she banned for spamming the board with her fear propaganda to promote her scams?
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« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2013, 09:40:28 AM »

Speaking of current events unfolding as I type = fear propaganda? ... or spam? Oh Puleaze!!!  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I'm not the one running around screaming "Oh look, my dog got fleas, it's Obama's fault". Then 50 gadzillion different threads all trying to make a connection between Obama and fleas.

I'm talking about one very charged, political issue and limiting my comments on it to one thread.

if you don't like the subject, don't click on it or read, but to troll behind me is both pretty lame & transparent.
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