us citizens sold out

[TigerStripes]

People need to pay some form of taxes. How do you think we have public works, and services? How would anything get paid? What the government needs to work on is how they allocate the money.

As far as poor people, most are just lazy people looking for handouts.

I disagree with that last statement. I think most of them want to do something, but there is nothing for themselves scrappy minimum wage jobs.

Once you sink into poverty, it's hard to just pull a 180 and suddenly become a success.

[Twaddle]

Really not the point, you asked for an example and i gave you a very clear one. In the real world, you cant just quit your job and get another one in a day, especially if your career options are limited, you may have a criminal record, no transportation, could be a hundred reasons. These people know this and exploit the shit out of the workers.

Your example is terrible.  Again, the workers are in control of their own lives.  If they're going to allow the bread plant to take advantage of them, then they have nobody to blame but themselves.  They can can that day and file for unemployment.  Or, they could go out everytime they get a day off, and turn in 20 job applications.  If they have a criminal record, that is their fault.  The bread plant (rich people as you call them) did not give them their criminal history.  If they have no transportation, they can ride a bike, or a bus.  

Again, I fail to see how the rich are fucking the poor and middle class.  

[Twaddle]

LOL...ok, Polyanna. 15 dollar a month dental insurancs, please tell me where i can get REAL dental insurance for that price, I'll sign up my whole family right now.

Delta dental.  Actually it's $12.50 per month after a $15.00 enrollment.  For 2 people it's $20.83 per month.  For 3 people it's $30.83 per month.  I expect you to sign your whole family up right now.   

[Seven Copper Coins]

Your example is terrible.  Again, the workers are in control of their own lives.  If they're going to allow the bread plant to take advantage of them, then they have nobody to blame but themselves.  They can can that day and file for unemployment.  Or, they could go out everytime they get a day off, and turn in 20 job applications.  If they have a criminal record, that is their fault.  The bread plant (rich people as you call them) did not give them their criminal history.  If they have no transportation, they can ride a bike, or a bus.  

Again, I fail to see how the rich are fucking the poor and middle class.  

That's because you're a fucking idiot.

I spelled out very clearly what they do. The "poor" aren't doing it to themselves. The people in charge, who know better, violate labor laws and screw people out of money. Whether the person stands for it or not is irrelevant..they DO it...period fucking paragraph.

[Twaddle]

That's because you're a fucking idiot.

I spelled out very clearly what they do. The "poor" aren't doing it to themselves. The people in charge, who know better, violate labor laws and screw people out of money. Whether the person stands for it or not is irrelevant..they DO it...period fucking paragraph.

I'm sorry, but you fail to understand the analogy i'm trying to make.   

[Seven Copper Coins]

I'm sorry, but you fail to understand the analogy i'm trying to make.   

you aren't making an analogy, you are making some hare-brained attempt at placing fault on the victim.

By your logic, if a girl gets raped, and she didn't take self defense courses,or spray her attacker with mace, then he didnt rape her...its her fault 

[The Abdominal Snoman]

The people of the USA have been sold out in almost every way.

Sold out to the pharmaceutical industry, insurance industry, prison industrial complex.

Bled for every dime of taxes. Living in a police state. About half the people in the USA are poor, desperate and ready to snap.

Still, lots of retarded Americans say they have "freedom".

Where is this freedom?

I think the US is the last frontier. Most of the stuff you listed has been going on for centuries in 90% of the globe. USA is the true last ditch effort of any kind of so called "Freedom" which of course I believe never really existed.

[Twaddle]

you aren't making an analogy, you are making some hare-brained attempt at placing fault on the victim.

By your logic, if a girl gets raped, and she didn't take self defense courses,or spray her attacker with mace, then he didnt rape her...its her fault 

Again, that is a terrible comparison.  A girl who is raped has no choice.  The workers in the bread factory do.  They can easily collect their paycheck and leave.   

[Seven Copper Coins]

Again, that is a terrible comparison.  A girl who is raped has no choice.  The workers in the bread factory do.  They can easily collect their paycheck and leave.   

And they do, there is huge turnover on unskilled labor jobs. But the point is they fuck you out out money FIRST, and force you to accept it or leave.because you are easily replaced. And they don't tell you when you get hired..."we are going to play games with your paycheck, not give you breaks and if you complain you're fired." Just stop talking already.

[TigerStripes]

I think the US is the last frontier. Most of the stuff you listed has been going on for centuries in 90% of the globe. USA is the true last ditch effort of any kind of so called "Freedom" which of course I believe never really existed.

I would say canada is more free.

Also many poor countries are very free, although more difficult to make money. Thailand is a great example.

[The True Adonis]

Again, that is a terrible comparison.  A girl who is raped has no choice.  The workers in the bread factory do.  They can easily collect their paycheck and leave.  

Uberman should speak on this, he works at something akin to a bread Factory.  

[Twaddle]

dont you guys have unions and courts for these issues?

we have got no mimimal wage in switzerland(its pointless to have one anyway imo), but the employer cant get away with such behaviour here.

Yes, we do.  And if the story in the bread factory actually was occuring, it would be very easy to go to EEOC, OSHA, or Dept of Labor and get it rectified.

[The True Adonis]

dont you guys have unions and courts for these issues?

we have got no mimimal wage in switzerland(its pointless to have one anyway imo), but the employer cant get away with such behaviour here.

We do.  If anyone wanted to pursue the matter, they would get their money and then some from the court system.

[Twaddle]

And they do, there is huge turnover on unskilled labor jobs. But the point is they fuck you out out money FIRST, and force you to accept it or leave.because you are easily replaced. And they don't tell you when you get hired..."we are going to play games with your paycheck, not give you breaks and if you complain you're fired." Just stop talking already.

You sound a little bitter.  Do you possibly work in said bread factory?  

[Seven Copper Coins]

You sound a little bitter.  Do you possibly work in said bread factory?  

Translation: i have no retort.

[The True Adonis]

Yes, we do.  And if the story in the bread factory actually was occuring, it would be very easy to go to EEOC, OSHA, or Dept of Labor and get it rectified.

Exactly.  They work extremely fast on those kind of matters.

[King Shizzo]

hm, is there something like avergae wage for factory repetitive job in the usa?

is there something like minimum wage?

how much are those?

what does 1or2 room flat cost to rent,or to buy?

we dont want you near our American women.  

[The True Adonis]

And they do, there is huge turnover on unskilled labor jobs. But the point is they fuck you out out money FIRST, and force you to accept it or leave.because you are easily replaced. And they don't tell you when you get hired..."we are going to play games with your paycheck, not give you breaks and if you complain you're fired." Just stop talking already.

By law there has to be breaks and they can`t mess with your paycheck.

[The True Adonis]

Friend of mine is management at a bread manufacturing plant. They hire temps and immigrants, fuck them out of OT..dont give them the break periods mandated by labor laws, and if anyone barks about it they are gone the next day. Immigration raids the place every three months. The blue collar supervisors on the floor get bonuses for keeping labor hours under a certain number with no dropoff in production...Just one example.

What is the companies name?  We can look it up and see if they have been under investigation and if they have been in repeated violation.  Surely if they have raided it every 3 months its definitely on the National radar.  Which Bread Company is it?  It can`t be Sara Lee.  I haven`t read anything like that in a long time.

[Twaddle]

And they do, there is huge turnover on unskilled labor jobs. But the point is they fuck you out out money FIRST, and force you to accept it or leave.because you are easily replaced. And they don't tell you when you get hired..."we are going to play games with your paycheck, not give you breaks and if you complain you're fired." Just stop talking already.

They can't do that, it's illegal, and would be easily challenged by anyone of the workers if they wanted to.  As i've said before, it's all up to the individual.  He/she controls their own destiny.  In the example of the bread workers, they have 3 choices:

1.  Take it.
2.  Quit and find another job.
3.  Fight it, get reimbursed, and pwn the bread boss.

So what's it going to be buddy?  You gonna keep taking it?  

[Radical Plato]

LOL at Americans thinking they are free.  Americans are proof that you don't have to provide freedom for the people, just the illusion of it.  The Government has arse raped the people for decades, stripped them of every conceivable freedom, severely limited their choices, impoverished them, created a police state and yet give an American a gun, and he thinks he is free.  I honestly believe the American Government is overjoyed at the Gun Obsession in America, they realised long ago they could do whatever they like to American citizens as long as a citizen is allowed a gun, they couldn't care less how much the Government wants to rape them.  

All these gun nutters thought they would have to deal with Government tyranny in the form of force, instead the Government just tyrannised them politically and with propaganda.  The fact Americans think they are free is the greatest testament to how powerful the American Government propaganda system has become.  The average American will even defend the Government that has been arse raping him for decades.  Talk about clever bastards.

[The True Adonis]

LOL at Americans thinking they are free.  Americans are proof that you don't have to provide freedom for the people, just the illusion of it.  The Government has arse raped the people for decades, stripped them of every conceivable freedom, severely limited their choices, impoverished them, created a police state and yet give an American a gun, and he thinks he is free.  I honestly believe the American Government is overjoyed at the Gun Obsession in America, they realised long ago they could do whatever they like to American citizens as long as a citizen is allowed a gun, they couldn't care less how much the Government wants to rape them.  

All these gun nutters thought they would have to deal with Government tyranny in the form of force, instead the Government just tyrannised them politically and with propaganda.  The fact Americans think they are free is the greatest testament to how powerful the American Government propaganda system has become.  The average American will even defend the Government that has been arse raping him for decades.  Talk about clever bastards.

What Freedom has been stripped from us? 

[Radical Plato]

What Freedom has been stripped from us? 

LOL

[Twaddle]

LOL at Americans thinking they are free.  Americans are proof that you don't have to provide freedom for the people, just the illusion of it.  The Government has arse raped the people for decades, stripped them of every conceivable freedom, severely limited their choices, impoverished them, created a police state and yet give an American a gun, and he thinks he is free.  I honestly believe the American Government is overjoyed at the Gun Obsession in America, they realised long ago they could do whatever they like to American citizens as long as a citizen is allowed a gun, they couldn't care less how much the Government wants to rape them.  

All these gun nutters thought they would have to deal with Government tyranny in the form of force, instead the Government just tyrannised them politically and with propaganda.  The fact Americans think they are free is the greatest testament to how powerful the American Government propaganda system has become.  The average American will even defend the Government that has been arse raping him for decades.  Talk about clever bastards.

Luke, please stop trying to act like you have a clue what you're talking about.  You have no idea how America or Americans work.  Everytime you start blathering about Americans, and American govt, you couldn't much further from the truth.  Please stop, you know not what you speak of.

On a side note, I still want to take you hunting if you ever come over to the states.  If you don't like shooting animals, I can respect that.  We can go shoot targets instead.  

[The True Adonis]

LOL