video of O inclining 3 plates

[kicker]

Correlation does not equal Causation.  That is basic scientific principle.  Yes there are smaller guys benching three times their weight.  They are powerlifters in the lower weight classes. 

I never said bodybuilders have no functional strength.  You'd think with all that extra muscle they would be somewhat strong.  They just aren't as proportionally strong as powerlifters/strength lifters.  I've never seen a powerlifter do cables........ever.

That should tell you something.




DIV

I never said correlation equals causation.  However the correlation is strong (greater than +0.8.  Of course there are some guys that can bench 3X their weight, and that is exceptional, but these guys are only a select few, a rare exception. Which is why the correlation is not perfect (otherwise it would equal causation).  I'm just saying you won't find guys like that in most gyms anyhow.

[kicker]

Also, one can't generalize that powerlifters are the strongest, or olympic lifters have the most "functional strength", or the BB's train for the "pump".  i don't know where some people some get these ideas.  There are other variables that play a factor in determining those things.  I certainly don't lift for the pump.  My goal is "bodybuilding" but that to me means lifting more weight or doing more reps each workout.  I lift big to get big.

"Functional strength" is a relative term.  Functional for what?  TO excel in a sport, improve one's ability to carry out household chores, to become a good at fighting, to become a great lover?  However you define "functional", I don't agree that either BB or powerlifting is better suited to developing functional strength in one area.  There are other factors that (such as specific training exposure, motivation, physiological characteristics, biomechanics, kinanthropometry, etc.) will ultimately determine level of "functional strength."

[DIVISION]

"Functional strength" is a relative term.  Functional for what?  TO excel in a sport, improve one's ability to carry out household chores, to become a good at fighting, to become a great lover?  However you define "functional", I don't agree that either BB or powerlifting is better suited to developing functional strength in one area.  There are other factors that (such as specific training exposure, motivation, physiological characteristics, biomechanics, kinanthropometry, etc.) will ultimately determine level of "functional strength."

Of course "functional strength" is a relative term which I cleary outlined in my preceding posts.  Go back and re-read those and you will see exactly what I defined in terms of functionality.

Strength that is applicable outside of the gym is what I meant, not a simple "pump" to make a muscle look better or bigger.  That is the blatant difference between a powerlifter and bodybuilder.

I can't make it any more plain for you.




DIV

[freakfestMD]

Baby Arnold,

When I say "functional", it's very clear what I mean.  Strength that applies to real world situations, not "body shaping" for a beauty pageant.  Strength that allows you to lift people out of your way, break bones, deter people from ever making the mistake of fu.cking with you.  That's one clear example.

Real applications.




DIV 

Gotta say, I'm a little lost in some of the discussions here.  Real world situations....?  There are many guys at my dojo that I can dwarf in terms of size and strength, yet they can remove my trachea within about 3 seconds.  I don't view the "real world" as some fist fight that is continually waiting to happen.   My ability to protect myself comes more from skills I have aquired than from the fact that at one time I could bench press nearly 600 lbs.  In my "real world", outside of the gym, the heaviest thing I have to lift is maybe a patient transferring from the OR table back to his hospital stretcher.  Now, maybe if I was a construction worker, all that strength would pay off, and truly be "functional". 

In the end, I think for most of the activities of daily living that most humans perform, bodybuilders and powerlifters are both strong enough...

And breaking bones?  Hell, that's easy as pie!  It's putting them back together that's the challenge!

[Blake]

SIZE DETERS PEOPLE.

A Glock on the hip also helps.   

[DIVISION]

A Glock on the hip also helps.   

Guns are not the way out, they usually only lead to more problems.

Trust me, Blake.



DIV

[Blake]

Guns are not the way out, they usually only lead to more problems.

Trust me, Blake.



DIV

I agree, Division.  I don't own a gun, nor do I see myself owning one in the future.

[SLYY]

PEC TEARS USUALLY OCCUR AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MOVEMENT, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS SOMEPEOPLE AVOID GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN..

Exactly. Plus it puts added pressure on your shoulders, so if you have shoulder issues it is not recomended to go all the way down.

[Arnold jr]

Baby Arnold,

When I say "functional", it's very clear what I mean.  Strength that applies to real world situations, not "body shaping" for a beauty pageant.  Strength that allows you to lift people out of your way, break bones, deter people from ever making the mistake of fu.cking with you.  That's one clear example.

Functional means being able to lift heavy weights from point A to point B......not for the sake of  "pump".  Do you see my point?

Real applications.




DIV 

Yes, I see your point, and I agree with you, someone who trains in a powerlifter fashion is going to be stronger, which in turn will benefit them more in "real world" situations as you say. I know you are not saying BB are not strong, I understand your point, but to add to it all, any BB that is worth his salt is going to have some of this same "functional" "real world" strength. A good BB training routine is going to be based on the basic lifts just as a powerlifters, i.e. squats, presses, deads, etc. True, the reps are never as low, so inturn, the weight is never as high, but a good solid BB builds his routines around the basics, same as a powerlifter.

[DIVISION]

Yes, I see your point, and I agree with you, someone who trains in a powerlifter fashion is going to be stronger, which in turn will benefit them more in "real world" situations as you say. I know you are not saying BB are not strong, I understand your point, but to add to it all, any BB that is worth his salt is going to have some of this same "functional" "real world" strength. A good BB training routine is going to be based on the basic lifts just as a powerlifters, i.e. squats, presses, deads, etc. True, the reps are never as low, so inturn, the weight is never as high, but a good solid BB builds his routines around the basics, same as a powerlifter.

So we finally see eye to eye on this......

Never realized this would stir up so much drama.   




DIV

[Arnold jr]

So we finally see eye to eye on this......

Never realized this would stir up so much drama.   




DIV

You've been around these boards long enough, most of the people on the boards thrive on creating drama. But I'm glad that a lot of us here can have difference of opinions and discusion on the topics at hand without pointless bitching, and pointless bashing of the others opinion. You'll notice I said "a lot of us" which means some on here do not get to be included in this group...you know damn well who you are, so kindly leave.

[BIGMIKE]

Yes, I see your point, and I agree with you, someone who trains in a powerlifter fashion is going to be stronger, which in turn will benefit them more in "real world" situations as you say. I know you are not saying BB are not strong, I understand your point, but to add to it all, any BB that is worth his salt is going to have some of this same "functional" "real world" strength. A good BB training routine is going to be based on the basic lifts just as a powerlifters, i.e. squats, presses, deads, etc. True, the reps are never as low, so inturn, the weight is never as high, but a good solid BB builds his routines around the basics, same as a powerlifter.

I'VE STAYED OUTTA THIS ONE BUT I CAN'T ANYMORE.MOST OF YOU ARE DEAD WRONG ABOUT BB'S.FOR STARTERS,@ 5'10 AND APPROX 250 LBS,I HAVE A DECENT AMOUNT OF SIZE...YET I CAN STILL TAKE SOMEONES HEAD OFF WITH A KICK.MAYBE THE MORONS WHO DON'T KNOW HOW TO STRETCH PROPERLY,AND DON'T DO IT OFTEN ENOUGH,CAN'T DO FULL REPS.I CAN.I TOUCH MY CHEST WHEN I BENCH AND I SQUAT TO THE BUCKET.FUNCTIONAL STRENGTH?HOW FUNCTIONAL CAN IT BE IN ANYONE'S WORLD IF YOU HAVE TO REST 2+ MINUTES JUST TO GET YOUR 1 REP MAX.LIFT AT YOUR HEAVIEST POSSIBLE WEIGHT WITH 30 SECONDS REST AND I'LL SHOW YOU FUNCTIONALITY.I'M SURE HAVING THAT MUCH MORE ANAEROBIC CAPACITY WILL HELP ME IN "THE REAL WORLD" WHERE YOU DON'T GET A CHANCE TO REST.

NOT PICKING ON ANYONES OPINION,JUST GIVING YOU MINE...

[ag-guys]

http://home.comcast.net/~jasonlandry/Benching.mov

wow, very strong

AG