Is Protein Isolate worth the extra money?

[Royalty]

Or do you guys go with a cheaper concentrate/isolate blend?

[Bear03]

Or do you guys go with a cheaper concentrate/isolate blend?

blend.  it's a pretty significant difference.  Like, the diff b/w Isopure and Optimum whey is up to 50 dollars a month, depending on how often you use whey.

I like the blend because of its multi-purpose.  Its "fast" enough to be used in the AM or Pre or Post Workout when mixed with water, but mixed with 2 % milk and taken with some fish oil/fiber in the PM or as a meal replacement can be digested reasonably slowly.

[Flex 215]

Yeah, I agree. ON 100% whey also has isolate listed in the ingredients before the concentrate, so it must have a little more isolate than concentate. And it is very well priced. Not the cheapest, but I wouldn't trust anything cheaper.

[Havenbull]

Yeah, I agree. ON 100% whey also has isolate listed in the ingredients before the concentrate, so it must have a little more isolate than concentate. And it is very well priced. Not the cheapest, but I wouldn't trust anything cheaper.

You're wrong.

Optimum Whey is 2% whey isolate

Optimum Whey Gold Standard (new) is 22% whey isolate

[Bear03]

Havenbull, aren't they the same price though?

[Havenbull]

Havenbull, aren't they the same price though?

Not the places I've seen, In fact the old one is usually heavily discounted.

[chris_mason]

A whey-only product is NEVER the best choice for protein supplementation. 

Here is the real deal, protien synthesis is increased for up to 48 hours after an intense training session.  A whey only product will get amino acids into your system very quickly (assuming you consumed it on an empty stomach and then less quickly otherwise) but the spike of amino acids it delivers will just as quickly go away.  Your body then is left in a state as if you had not supplemented protein at all. 

A protein blend which contains whey but also casein and egg will provide a quick, but more even and LONG LASTING supply of amino acids to your bloodstream so that your muscles have available what they need.  It will also provide for a greater net retention of said ingested protein (you'll use more of it)!

Whey-only products have been promoted by the industry for so long because they are CHEAP TO PRODUCE. 

You can spend $3-5 more for Nitrean and give your body the best...  The choice is yours.

[dawakaman]

Chris, you are right. You have told these people so many times, but a lot of people still swear by
a whey only product...
Your Nitrean looks interesting, too bad i live in Amsterdam and do not own a creditcard...

Peace
d

[MCWAY]

In my opinion, Isolate is worth the extra money. As of late, whey isolate has been fairly economical.I just recently picked up several bottles of Nature's Best's "Isopure" RTDs. These are the zero-carb, pure protein ones.

The bottles were on sale for $0.88 each and all the protein consists of whey isolate.

As for Mr. Mason's products, I have to disagree a bit. I've used whey RTDs (ON's Whey MRP) and weight gainers (N-Large²) for a number of years. From my experience, they work quite well. That's especially true of the gainers, as I've used a gainer with protein blend for several years, prior to switching to N-Large².

Back to the whole whey concentrate vs. whey isolate issue. It's worth it, if you can afford it. But, you can get the isolate at a discount, if you look for marked-down RTDs (Isopure, ABB, etc).

My rule for buying supplements is to buy those that give you nutrients/substances, that are extremely difficult to obtain via regular food. That's one of the reason why I use 100% whey (isolate or concentrate) MRPs/weight gainers, as egg and casein are easy to obtain.

[chris_mason]

In my opinion, Isolate is worth the extra money. As of late, whey isolate has been fairly economical.I just recently picked up several bottles of Nature's Best's "Isopure" RTDs. These are the zero-carb, pure protein ones.

The bottles were on sale for $0.88 each and all the protein consists of whey isolate.

As for Mr. Mason's products, I have to disagree a bit. I've used whey RTDs (ON's Whey MRP) and weight gainers (N-Large²) for a number of years. From my experience, they work quite well. That's especially true of the gainers, as I've used a gainer with protein blend for several years, prior to switching to N-Large².

Back to the whole whey concentrate vs. whey isolate issue. It's worth it, if you can afford it. But, you can get the isolate at a discount, if you look for marked-down RTDs (Isopure, ABB, etc).

My rule for buying supplements is to buy those that give you nutrients/substances, that are extremely difficult to obtain via regular food. That's one of the reason why I use 100% whey (isolate or concentrate) MRPs/weight gainers, as egg and casein are easy to obtain.

What do RTDs and weight gainers have to do with Nitrean?  Nitrean is a protein only powder which contains a blend of whey, casein, and egg proteins.

You can disagree as you like, but the FACT is that a blend is superior to ANY whey-only product with respect to the desired end result of increased nitrogen retention.  This is not arguable.  Period, end of story.

Dawakaman, we will ship anywhere.  I have customers all over the world and most find that our product even with the high cost of international shipping (we only charge $5.95 in the states) is still cheaper than what they can get locally.  You can email me at chris@atlargenutrition.com for a custom quote if you like.

[MCWAY]

What do RTDs and weight gainers have to do with Nitrean?  Nitrean is a protein only powder which contains a blend of whey, casein, and egg proteins.

You can disagree as you like, but the FACT is that a blend is superior to ANY whey-only product with respect to the desired end result of increased nitrogen retention.  This is not arguable.  Period, end of story.

Dawakaman, we will ship anywhere.  I have customers all over the world and most find that our product even with the high cost of international shipping (we only charge $5.95 in the states) is still cheaper than what they can get locally.  You can email me at chris@atlargenutrition.com for a custom quote if you like.

I'm sorry, my previous post should have read, "As for Mr. Mason's comments..........[/b]".

My post wasn't meant to be about Nitrean. It was about whey-only supplements and protein blends. The reason I made my statements, because, for several years, I used a weight gainer that had a protein blend of whey, casein and egg and got good results. I later switched to a gainer, with whey as its sole protein source and got better results.

In fact, I'll go one better. When I made the switch, the brand I started using WAS a protein blend. That particular company changed its weight-gainer formula from a blend to an all-whey type. And I got better results with that than I did with that brand's old formula or the previous brand I'd used.

As for your statement not being arguable, it's quite that, as there have been a number of studies citing all-whey formulas having the edge over protein-blends. The preponderance of those studies tends to depend on which product is being marketed more/better.

[Blake]

IMO whey isolate is not worth the extra money.

I used Isopure zero carb for a long time (at the time I too wanted to believe it would provide better results), and got no better results than any other whey protein concentrate/whey blend I used.  I now use Optimum 100% Whey.

As for a longer lasting blend or a casein powder, I think in a caloric deficit it may be more useful.  However when you're consuming at least maintenance calories or above maintenance along with an overall adequate protein intake (ie 1 gram per lb bodyweight), I don't think you're going to notice any bit of difference.

[chris_mason]

I'm sorry, my previous post should have read, "As for Mr. Mason's comments..........[/b]".

My post wasn't meant to be about Nitrean. It was about whey-only supplements and protein blends. The reason I made my statements, because, for several years, I used a weight gainer that had a protein blend of whey, casein and egg and got good results. I later switched to a gainer, with whey as its sole protein source and got better results.

In fact, I'll go one better. When I made the switch, the brand I started using WAS a protein blend. That particular company changed its weight-gainer formula from a blend to an all-whey type. And I got better results with that than I did with that brand's old formula or the previous brand I'd used.

As for your statement not being arguable, it's quite that, as there have been a number of studies citing all-whey formulas having the edge over protein-blends. The preponderance of those studies tends to depend on which product is being marketed more/better.

a) Show me a study which demonstrates better net retention of ingested protein from a whey-only product vs. a blend.

b) I will not argue your experience.  I will explain it by saying what you thought was a blend either wasn't, or the quality of ingredients was so poor vs. the product you switched to that the difference was made.  You have to understand that some products on the market don't contain what they claim.

[MCWAY]

a) Show me a study which demonstrates better net retention of ingested protein from a whey-only product vs. a blend.

b) I will not argue your experience.  I will explain it by saying what you thought was a blend either wasn't, or the quality of ingredients was so poor vs. the product you switched to that the difference was made.  You have to understand that some products on the market don't contain what they claim.

a) I will look for those studies in my old magazines. If I can't find it there, I'll do some web-surfing

b) As for the quality issue, you may have a case, here. I made my statements generic, to emphasize my point. But, if mentioning the brand names helps, here it goes. If you've seen my posts in the past, you may already know to which products I'm referring.

The old gainer, with the blend that I used for a number of years was Weider's Mega Mass 2000. The initial switch I made was from that to N-Large by Prolab. At that time, N-Large had a milk-and-egg protein base. When Prolab upgraded the product to N-Large², it switched the milk-and-egg protein base for that of whey concentrate, which it has maintained to this day.

[Havenbull]

a) Show me a study which demonstrates better net retention of ingested protein from a whey-only product vs. a blend.

b) I will not argue your experience.  I will explain it by saying what you thought was a blend either wasn't, or the quality of ingredients was so poor vs. the product you switched to that the difference was made.  You have to understand that some products on the market don't contain what they claim.

Are you saying a blended protein is better post-workout than a whey isolate only protein.  I'm not talking about before bed or MRP, but post workout

[chris_mason]

a) I will look for those studies in my old magazines. If I can't find it there, I'll do some web-surfing

b) As for the quality issue, you may have a case, here. I made my statements generic, to emphasize my point. But, if mentioning the brand names helps, here it goes. If you've seen my posts in the past, you may already know to which products I'm referring.

The old gainer, with the blend that I used for a number of years was Weider's Mega Mass 2000. The initial switch I made was from that to N-Large by Prolab. At that time, N-Large had a milk-and-egg protein base. When Prolab upgraded the product to N-Large², it switched the milk-and-egg protein base for that of whey concentrate, which it has maintained to this day.

I don't want to comment on other brands specifically.  I will just leave my initial statement as it was.

[chris_mason]

Are you saying a blended protein is better post-workout than a whey isolate only protein.  I'm not talking about before bed or MRP, but post workout

Fucking A right I am!

The scientific evidence upon which I base my assertation is the following:

1) Post-workout protein synthesis is increased for up to 48 hours.  The window is greater than 1-2 hours.  A blend provides whey for the initial spike but also other protein types for a "prolonged release" of amino acids.

2) According to the work of Boirie et. al protein absorption rate has a direct effect on net retention.  For instance, whey produces a greater initial spike in blood borne amino acids (roughly twice that of casein) BUT casein produces greater overall net retention of ingested protein over a 7 hour period.  Casein both stimulates protein synthesis AND reduces protein degradation in the body. 

You can buy the best or you can save $5 and cheat yourself out of optimal supplementation.  The choice is yours.

[Bear03]

I have heard chris' "Point #1" numerous times before.

I'm sure isolate would work, if you had time to eat like a pro bodybuilder.  However, seeing as how for most of us, it's merely a hobby, and we can't eat 28000 times a day, blends are the best.

[loco]

Or do you guys go with a cheaper concentrate/isolate blend?

Yes, Whey protein isolate is definitely worth the extra money.  But take it only after your workout and not at any other time, and eat a high protein and moderate carb meal an hour after that.  Use a protein blend, Whey + Casein + Egg any other time of the day.

Right after my workout I use Ast Vp-2 Whey Protein Isolate, 2 lbs for  $22.95 at DPSNutrition
www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?dept=1018&number=AS122

You could also get IDS Whey Protein Isolate cheaper, 5 lbs for $29.95, but I have not tried this one yet.
www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?dept=1054&number=ID040

Any other time of the day I use Labrada Pro V 60.  It's a blend of Whey + Egg + Casein proteins. 
I get 3.5 lbs for $25.99
www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?dept=1062&number=LB019

Or you could get Syntrax Matrix 5.0, 5 Lb for $28.99, but I have not tried this one yet.
www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?dept=1099&number=SY058

And yes, I experienced a huge difference when switching from a protein blend to pure Whey Isolate post-workout.  And yes, I have read studies that confirm this.  No, I don't have time right know to hunt down the sources and post them here.  This is only for your information.  I'm not here to argue or to show off.  If you have never tried Whey Isolate post-workout, then give it a try for a couple of months without changing any other variables and see what happens.

[loco]

A protein blend which contains whey but also casein and egg will provide a quick, but more even and LONG LASTING supply of amino acids to your bloodstream so that your muscles have available what they need.  It will also provide for a greater net retention of said ingested protein (you'll use more of it)!

Whey-only products have been promoted by the industry for so long because they are CHEAP TO PRODUCE. 

You can spend $3-5 more for Nitrean and give your body the best...  The choice is yours.

chris_mason,
Whey Concentrate is cheap to produce, but Whey Isoalate is not.

I looked up Nitrean at
www.atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php/products_id/1
and judging by the nutrition facts, this does seem like the best protein blend that I have ever seen, and reasonably priced.  I'll give this one a try some time.

[MCWAY]

I have heard chris' "Point #1" numerous times before.

I'm sure isolate would work, if you had time to eat like a pro bodybuilder.  However, seeing as how for most of us, it's merely a hobby, and we can't eat 28000 times a day, blends are the best.

I certainly don't have time to "eat like a pro bodybuilder". In fact, since I'm on vacation, my eating schedule has been thrown off a bit. I actually function better, diet-wise, when I'm at work.

I usually have six meals a day. Breakfast is usually eaten on the way to work, as I have a fairly long drive to get there. My first shake is at 10:00 a.m. Lunch is at noon. Next shake is at 3:00 p.m.  Post-workout is CELL-TECH, followed by an RTD. Dinner is whatever my wife cooks. And before bed is a final RTD/MRP, if my stomach is up to it.

The two shakes I consume at work are either weight gainers or MRPs, depending on whether or not I'm bulking up or trimming down. I've used MRPs that have 100% whey protein (ON) and they've done right by me. And, they tend to be a bit kinder to my stomach than the protein-blend types (i.e. Myoplex).

The post-workout RTD is almost always a pure whey one (Isopure, NITRO-TECH, ABB Pure Pro/Blue Thunder/Mass Recovery).

With a schedule like this, I can easily consume whey protein for my shakes. So, having a regular job isn't a factor in whey isolate (or concentrate) consumption.

[chris_mason]

chris_mason,
Whey Concentrate is cheap to produce, but Whey Isoalate is not.

I looked up Nitrean at
www.atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php/products_id/1
and judging by the nutrition facts, this does seem like the best protein blend that I have ever seen, and reasonably priced.  I'll give this one a try some time.

Thank you (for the Nitrean comment).  Just so you know, I am co-owner of AtLarge and I know what various types of whey cost.  I could offer a whey-only blend that was top notch and it would cost me from $6-9 less per jug (depending on the specific ratio of whey fractions) to product than Nitrean. 

[buffbodz]

Dudes, I'm in the business too but to much http://yourforumpostisspam.ytmnd.com/ for me  This is an age old argument that's been around as long as protein powder  Use the one that makes you feel stronger and fuller. so http://youlose.ytmnd.com/ for now. 

[loco]

Thank you (for the Nitrean comment).  Just so you know, I am co-owner of AtLarge and I know what various types of whey cost.  I could offer a whey-only blend that was top notch and it would cost me from $6-9 less per jug (depending on the specific ratio of whey fractions) to product than Nitrean. 

chris_mason,
Congratulations and good luck with your business!  I'm sure that you know what you are talking about, but it has nothing to do with being in the business.  I know plenty of people in the business who don't know anything about protein, nutrition or training.  They are just out to make a quick buck off of ignorant and desperate consumers.

If you offered a whey-only "blend", I would not buy it.  Whey Isolate + Whey Concentrate blends are a waste of money to me, because the Whey Concentrate ruins it.  It's like mixing good wine with grape juice just to fill up the bottle.  Now, if you offered a quality "Whey Isolate only" product, one that rivals AST VP2 in quality and price, I would definitely buy it from you.  Merry Christmas!!!

[MikeThaMachine]

I use ON 100% whey  before and after workouts but i have to say i love Isopure for my morning shake right when i wake up.