Missouri man arrested at hospital for refusing to leave gay partner

[avxo]

They should be sensitive but at some point, excessive needs of family members will interfere with patient care. I know people can be pretty selfish but there are limits to the extent to which you're obligated to indulge them.

I never that they should allow interference with patient care. I also never said that they're obligated to indulge people. If you're going to quote me then answer what I write, not the flotsam and jetsam whirling around in your head.

[LurkerNoMore]

This isn't related to this story here, but just tossing it out as something to think about.  I have seen quite a few cases here at the hospital where someone is in really bad shape and their "family" shows up and has their partner tossed out.  Keep in mind that their "family" is often at times members they haven't seen in decades and have disowned them for their choice in partners.  Yet they allow their hatred to overrule who the patient would rather have by their side.  It is nothing more than a biased power struggle.

[drkaje]

I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if this has been asked and answered, but do you think that there should be recognition (at some level) of consensual adult relationships that awards the civil benefits of marriage to those adults (e.g. implicit health care proxy, legal status vis-à-vis visitation in hospitals, inheritance law, etc)?

I agree with you that we need to hear both sides of the story and we shouldn't rush to judgement, but I think that we can agree that nurses and doctors ought to realy be more sensitive and, perhaps, considerate with people who are in a high stress environment and may not be in the best frame of mind.

This is the statement I was responding to.

It's a hospital, FFS!!  Doctors and nurses are the only ones expected to be on their best and never make mistakes. My point is that people having hissy-fits detracts from overall patient care. I couldn't care less if the guy is gay, civil-union'd, married, divorced, or transgendered... he does not have the right to be disruptive.

It's not easy to get kicked out of a hospital, you know. In most situations the staff will bend over backwards to make people more comfortable unless it's going to interfere with patient care.

[bears]

I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if this has been asked and answered, but do you think that there should be recognition (at some level) of consensual adult relationships that awards the civil benefits of marriage to those adults (e.g. implicit health care proxy, legal status vis-à-vis visitation in hospitals, inheritance law, etc)?

I agree with you that we need to hear both sides of the story and we shouldn't rush to judgement, but I think that we can agree that nurses and doctors ought to realy be more sensitive and, perhaps, considerate with people who are in a high stress environment and may not be in the best frame of mind.

i would agree yes.  but just because my wife is in the hospital with me and she is allowed to be there doesn't mean she can act like a complete asshole and be a disruption, especially on a psych floor.  my wife has worked on a psych floor and even at a nice hospital its a high stress, volatile environment.

this article is drawing all of their conclusions based ONLY upon information from the daughter of the man in question.  i would say that both sides of the story need to be heard.  someone could most likely lose their job over this.   and lets be realistic about the situation. there is a couple.  one of them is being hospitalized for depression.  that means some crazy shit has gone down.  so crazy that this guy was hospitalized.  it's a volatile situation from the get go.  its only fair that we hear the other side of the story before we make up our minds. 

the fact that some people on this board have made up their minds is ridiculous and only proves their unfair bias.  the sad part is they don't care.  to them they've been trained by tv to always side with the gay guy, no matter what.  i'll side with the gay couple.  no problem.  just give me something to hang my hat on first.

[tu_holmes]

i would agree yes.  but just because my wife is in the hospital with me and she is allowed to be there doesn't mean she can act like a complete asshole and be a disruption, especially on a psych floor.  my wife has worked on a psych floor and even at a nice hospital its a high stress, volatile environment.

this article is drawing all of their conclusions based ONLY upon information from the daughter of the man in question.  i would say that both sides of the story need to be heard.  someone could most likely lose their job over this.   and lets be realistic about the situation. there is a couple.  one of them is being hospitalized for depression.  that means some crazy shit has gone down.  so crazy that this guy was hospitalized.  it's a volatile situation from the get go.  its only fair that we hear the other side of the story before we make up our minds. 

the fact that some people on this board have made up their minds is ridiculous and only proves their unfair bias.  the sad part is they don't care.  to them they've been trained by tv to always side with the gay guy, no matter what.  i'll side with the gay couple.  no problem.  just give me something to hang my hat on first.

Where's the other side then?

I admit it freely that I backed the gay dude... easily done, because the statements that have been made show absolute complete bias from the Hospital.

Where's the other side?

How long are you willing to wait to hear the other side?

if the other side never speaks then I'm supposed to just believe that the other side has a point? Even if they do not state it?

[avxo]

This is the statement I was responding to.

Right, but if you read that statement carefully, you will see that your responses didn't really address anything that I actually said. If I ask "what's the indefinite integral of sin(x)" and you pop up to say "clogged potatoes" technically speaking you're answering. But there's more to an answer than word salad.

It's a hospital, FFS!!  Doctors and nurses are the only ones expected to be on their best and never make mistakes.

You're damn right I expected them to be on their best - no different than any other professional I do business with. I expect people to do their job right and with integrity, and if they don't, I take my business elsewhere by finding others who will.

The fact, whether doctors and nurses like it, part of their job is to deal with people who may be at their very worst. That's why they should be calm, cool and collected.

My point is that people having hissy-fits detracts from overall patient care.

They sure do, and they ought to be dealth with. My point was that there's a right way and a wrong way to handle those "hissy-fits".

I couldn't care less if the guy is gay, civil-union'd, married, divorced, or transgendered... he does not have the right to be disruptive.

I couldn't either. However it should be pointed out that if he had a healthcare proxy he could have easily told the doctors and the nurses to stick a finger up their asses and waddle out of the room. Contrary to your apparent viewpoint, doctors and nurses aren't gods and their authority only extends as far as patients want it to extend.

It's not easy to get kicked out of a hospital, you know. In most situations the staff will bend over backwards to make people more comfortable unless it's going to interfere with patient care.

I'm quite sure that it's not. Just like I'm sure that most of the time staff are understanding. So what?

[bears]

Where's the other side then?

I admit it freely that I backed the gay dude... easily done, because the statements that have been made show absolute complete bias from the Hospital.

Where's the other side?

How long are you willing to wait to hear the other side?

if the other side never speaks then I'm supposed to just believe that the other side has a point? Even if they do not state it?

all you've heard is information coming from the daughter of the man in question.  from ONE article.  you've heard nothing else.  and you've made up your mind.  good work.

[avxo]

i would agree yes.  but just because my wife is in the hospital with me and she is allowed to be there doesn't mean she can act like a complete asshole and be a disruption, especially on a psych floor.  my wife has worked on a psych floor and even at a nice hospital its a high stress, volatile environment.

*nod* I absolute agree.

this article is drawing all of their conclusions based ONLY upon information from the daughter of the man in question.  i would say that both sides of the story need to be heard.  someone could most likely lose their job over this.   and lets be realistic about the situation. there is a couple.  one of them is being hospitalized for depression.  that means some crazy shit has gone down.  so crazy that this guy was hospitalized.  it's a volatile situation from the get go.  its only fair that we hear the other side of the story before we make up our minds.

I agree, the article is poorly written and conveys only half the story.

the fact that some people on this board have made up their minds is ridiculous and only proves their unfair bias.  the sad part is they don't care.  to them they've been trained by tv to always side with the gay guy, no matter what.  i'll side with the gay couple.  no problem.  just give me something to hang my hat on first.

Egads... another sensible getbigger! Soon we may even be able to actually have meaningful debate on here!

[bears]

Where's the other side then?

I admit it freely that I backed the gay dude... easily done, because the statements that have been made show absolute complete bias from the Hospital.

Where's the other side?

How long are you willing to wait to hear the other side?

if the other side never speaks then I'm supposed to just believe that the other side has a point? Even if they do not state it?

and the hospital hasn't responded yet because they're going to get sued.  and they're making sure they have all of the information that they need before they make an official statement.  because they know that there are a bunch of fucking idiots who have their mind made up already before they have heard all of the facts.  

look.  i'm open to the fact that this hospital is in the wrong.  i just don't know yet.  i'm not going to base my entire opinion on this article.  because i'm not fucking stupid.

[drkaje]

Right, but if you read that statement carefully, you will see that your responses didn't really address anything that I actually said. If I ask "what's the indefinite integral of sin(x)" and you pop up to say "clogged potatoes" technically speaking you're answering. But there's more to an answer than word salad.


You're damn right I expected them to be on their best - no different than any other professional I do business with. I expect people to do their job right and with integrity, and if they don't, I take my business elsewhere by finding others who will.

Someone's obligation to be on their best isn't license to act the damn fool. You're dealing with a professional for a commodity that isn't an entitlement.

The fact, whether doctors and nurses like it, part of their job is to deal with people who may be at their very worst. That's why they should be calm, cool and collected.

Lots of people should be lots of things but at the end of the day, doctors and nurses are still people. In a perfect world, people could magically be at their best those times we're at our worst but that isn't the world we live in. If the guy was acting like a douche, ejecting him seems totally fair. Not being in the hospital doesn't terminate the exercise of his HCP.

Right, but if you read that statement carefully, you will see that your responses didn't really address anything that I actually said. If I ask "what's the indefinite integral of sin(x)" and you pop up to say "clogged potatoes" technically speaking you're answering. But there's more to an answer than word salad.

Only someone who knew how specific the term "word salad" is would understand the extent to which using it makes no sense in this context.

They sure do, and they ought to be dealth with. My point was that there's a right way and a wrong way to handle those "hissy-fits".

The right way to handle a hissy-fit is "Take a break and come back when you can speak to the staff respectfully". You are saying they have to take crap and always be professional no matter what. My opinion is that professionals should be treated professionally.

I couldn't either. However it should be pointed out that if he had a healthcare proxy he could have easily told the doctors and the nurses to stick a finger up their asses and waddle out of the room. Contrary to your apparent viewpoint, doctors and nurses aren't gods and their authority only extends as far as patients want it to extend.

Also, the same person who exercised the healthcare proxy and sent people out of the room could turn around and sue the hospital for listening to them, simply through claiming the decision was made under duress.

My point is that people can't have it both ways. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with advocating or a loved one to have the best care possible. Some people are just selfish and push things way the hell too far.

Healthcare proxy means you're speaking as/for the patient when it comes to health care decisions. It doesn't actually mean someone is God and that everyone involved with care has to kiss your ass or take abuse.

[Soul Crusher]

BOOOMMMMMM

Someone's obligation to be on their best isn't license to act the damn fool. You're dealing with a professional for a commodity that isn't an entitlement.

Lots of people should be lots of things but at the end of the day, doctors and nurses are still people. In a perfect world, people could magically be at their best those times we're at our worst but that isn't the world we live in. If the guy was acting like a douche, ejecting him seems totally fair. Not being in the hospital doesn't terminate the exercise of his HCP.

Only someone who knew how specific the term "word salad" is would understand the extent to which using it makes no sense in this context.
The right way to handle a hissy-fit is "Take a break and come back when you can speak to the staff respectfully". You are saying they have to take crap and always be professional no matter what. My opinion is that professionals should be treated professionally.

Also, the same person who exercised the healthcare proxy and sent people out of the room could turn around and sue the hospital for listening to them, simply through claiming the decision was made under duress.

My point is that people can't have it both ways. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with advocating or a loved one to have the best care possible. Some people are just selfish and push things way the hell too far.

Healthcare proxy means you're speaking as/for the patient when it comes to health care decisions. It doesn't actually mean someone is God and that everyone involved with care has to kiss your ass or take abuse.

[tu_holmes]

all you've heard is information coming from the daughter of the man in question.  from ONE article.  you've heard nothing else.  and you've made up your mind.  good work.

Welcome to what happens when one side does all of the talking.

I'm going with the information that has been presented... Of which, the hospital has said zilch.

[avxo]

Someone's obligation to be on their best isn't license to act the damn fool. You're dealing with a professional for a commodity that isn't an entitlement.

I never said it was a license to act like one; indeed, I didn't say that they should accommodate fools (or those acting like fools). I said they should be calm, cool and collected.

Only someone who knew how specific the term "word salad" is would understand the extent to which using it makes no sense in this context.

I know exactly what the term means and used it on purpose (albeit, for effect). Would you have preferred "logorrhea" instead Doctor?

The right way to handle a hissy-fit is "Take a break and come back when you can speak to the staff respectfully". You are saying they have to take crap and always be professional no matter what. My opinion is that professionals should be treated professionally.

The right way to handle a hissy-fit is for the "adults" to act like adults and not make the situation worse. Sometimes that means ignoring, sometimes that means a timeout.

People should always be treated respectfully. And in the context of a professional relationship, even when they aren't reciprocating.

Also, the same person who exercised the healthcare proxy and sent people out of the room could turn around and sue the hospital for listening to them, simply through claiming the decision was made under duress

Sadly we live in a society where people can sue for any reason - even for no reason at all. What's your point?

My point is that people can't have it both ways. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with advocating or a loved one to have the best care possible. Some people are just selfish and push things way the hell too far.

What does any of those silly truisms have to do with the case at hand? If you answered "nothing" then congratulations!

Healthcare proxy means you're speaking as/for the patient when it comes to health care decisions. It doesn't actually mean someone is God and that everyone involved with care has to kiss your ass or take abuse.

Right. And if that decision is "I don't want person X visiting" that means that person X isn't visiting. If that decision is "Get us paperwork to get the fuck out of here now, and bring the AMA form too so we don't waste time" you snap to it.

[drkaje]

Right. And if that decision is "I don't want person X visiting" that means that person X isn't visiting. If that decision is "Get us paperwork to get the fuck out of here now, and bring the AMA form too so we don't waste time" you snap to it.

And if your loved one dies in transit who will be held responsible?

[avxo]

And if your loved one dies in transit who will be held responsible?

That's an overly broad question. But it's Sunday night and we're all friends here. So let's play along in your silly hypothetical and assume the death is directly the result of my choice to sign them out AMA and nothing else could possibly have contributed to it. So, then, your point is what, exactly?