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Author Topic: Why gold is falling even as global economic fears intensify  (Read 8816 times)
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« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2013, 11:08:31 PM »

In Other Global Currency Trends ... Cheesy

Update to the Update: The Attack on Gold
By Paul Craig Roberts
April 16, 2013





Tuesday, April 16. The orchestrated attack on bullion in the paper gold market took the spot prices of gold and silver down on Friday and Monday, but actual physical purchases rose during this period. The sales were of paper claims, not of real metal.

The demand for physical possession of bullion rose so strongly that large wholesalers such as www.tulving.com and large retailers such as Gainesville Coins reported sold out items. Also, dealers raised the premiums above the spot price that is charged for coins. From Friday to Monday the premium on Silver Eagles at the large online retailer, Gainesville Coins, rose from $3.75 to $5.99 above the spot price of silver. The percentage increase in premium was larger than the percentage decline in the silver price. Thus, the price of a silver one Troy ounce coin did not drop despite the drop in the spot price. Today (April 16) the price of a silver eagle purchased with a credit card from retailer Gainesville Coins is $30.36. You would never know that the market had fallen out.

Today (Tuesday, April 16) Tulving reported 29% of its bar and coin bullion categories sold out and had almost no silver coin stock. The premium over spot on new gold eagles was $63.95. At large online retailers the premium was $71. Gainesville Coins has no silver Buffalos and lists shipment of orders to commence when coins are available, estimated to be May 10.

What I am reporting are facts, not a theory. We have just had two days of massive sales of paper claims on bullion, but during these days when the price of gold and silver collapsed under short sales, it was difficult to get your hands on the metal itself. On telephone orders you wait in long queues to place an order and are told that delivery awaits availability.

Listening to the media and to academic economists such as Paul Krugman, you would think no one any longer wants gold and silver. But try getting your hands on some.

The physical bullion market, gold especially, is dominated by Asians. Americans are a minor player. Most Americans still believe in the almighty dollar, but few Asians do. The Chinese tomorrow would dump their two trillion of US dollar-denominated assets and purchase gold, except that the action would drive down the dollar and drive up the gold price. So, unlike the orchestrated attack on gold, China plays a slow hand, using the orchestrated attack on gold to acquire the metal at lower prices.

As I understand it, the open interest or future contracts on COMEX greatly exceed the bullion available for delivery. This is a paper market mainly settled in cash, not by taking delivery. If the contracts had to be settled in bullion instead of cash, the COMEX would fail.

One advantage of growing old is that one gains perspective. I remember when gold was $35 an ounce and silver $1 an ounce. If memory serves, until sometimes in the 1960s, a person could still take a paper dollar to a bank and be given a silver dollar. There were $1 dollar and $5 dollar silver certificates (paper money) that circulated along with Federal Reserve currency. At that time banks did not differentiate. A dollar was a dollar. Silver certificates today have collectors’s value, but the Federal Reserve currency does not.

If memory serves, sometimes after 1966 if a person presented a silver certificate to a Federal Reserve Bank, he received one or five ounces or raw silver in return depending on the denomination of the certificate, which looked like a Federal Reserve note except it said Silver Certificate. I have some of these envelopes of little pieces of silver.

When silver was taken out of US coins in the 1960s and copper was taken out of the US penny in the early 1980s, despite my opposition as Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury for Economic Policy, all real constraints on fiat money were removed.

Today we see the Fed protecting its protection of “banks too big to fail” with low interest rates by creating enormous sums of money in order to purchase both Treasury bonds and mortgage backed derivatives.

These Fed purchasers are at the expense of savers and CD and bond purchasers who receive a negative real rate of interest.

Now, to protect its bank rescue policy, the Fed is attempting to drive down the price of bullion, thus depriving Americans of any way of protecting their life savings from the inflation that the Fed’s money printing will ultimately cause.

Save a handful of corrupt banks, screw the American public--that is the Fed’s policy.
Like almost every other American institution, the Fed represents the mega-rich.


Anyone with open eyes can see that it is impossible for the US dollar to maintain its current exchange value and role as world money when its supply is being increased by $1,000 billion per year while the world is ceasing to use the dollar for international payments.

The attack on gold is a desperate attempt to protect the US dollar from the Fed’s policy of quantitative easing. But the attack on bullion has apparently failed. The price was driven down, but the demand for physical possession has hit new highs.

What is it that we really know? What have we learned since the Clinton regime?

We have learned that integrity is rare in the US government, in the justice system, and in the financial sector. Whatever integrity one can find in these arenas wouldn’t amount to one ounce of gold.

Americans live in a rigged system in which propaganda determines the public’s awareness and consciousness. Americans, or most of them, live in the Matrix.


Since the end of WWII, most foreign governments have been in the habit of going along with Washington. Only in the aftermath of Washington’s phony wars based on lies and phony economy based on rigged statistics is the rest of the world beginning to realize that Washington is a destabilizing force.

Chavez, the recently deceased leader of Venezuela made the point most powerfully when he spoke at the UN. Standing at the podium in the General Assembly, he said that “Satan himself stood here yesterday speaking as if he owned the world. You can still smell the sulfur.” He was speaking of George W. Bush, and the entire assembly knew it.

The Russian leader, Putin, speaking of Washington, has declared that we know what comrade wolf is up to.

The Chinese can see the new military bases that stupid Washington is building in the Chinese area of influence.

A country whose currency is being abandoned as the means of international settlement, not only by the BRICS but also by puppet states such as Australia and Japan, has reached the point of absurdity when it tries to eliminate bullion as a refuge against the depreciating dollar.

The Federal Reserve and the US Treasury using their dependent bullion banks, every one of which would be busted if interest rates were not rigged by the Federal Reserve, have used leverage in the paper market to drive down the prices of gold and silver; yet, purchases of physical bullion are outrunning supplies.

What we are witnessing is the failure of a policy of financial corruption.

Integrity is a scarce commodity in the US government. Try to find much of it. Demonstrating a rare example of integrity, Brooksley Born resigned as head of the Federal Commodity Futures Trading Commission, because the Federal Reserve chairman, the US Treasury secretary, and the SEC chairman prevented her from during her statutory duty and regulating over the counter derivatives. The three morons who prevented her from doing her duty caused the financial collapse.

Integrity is almost non-existent in the US justice system.

Integrity is totally non-existent in the US financial system. As Michael Hudson has proven, the financialization of the economy has destroyed the economy.

With dollars, and now with Washington’s demand Japanese yen and European euros being printed in profusion, where can people put their money, at least those who still have some?


Can they put it in bonds when the Federal Reserve is monetizing debt at $1,000 billion annually and real interest rates are negative?

Can they put it in stocks that are pumped up by banks speculating with the Fed’s money while retail sales, labor force participation, and consumer incomes fall?

Safety can only be found in gold and silver, traditional, historical money that cannot be inflated.This is why bullion is under attack by Washington.

Readers ask me what they can do to protect themselves and where can they go to make gold and silver purchases.

I am not a registered financial advisor. I do not provide financial advice.

Every person must make their own decision. All I can do is to provide information, which is not guaranteed to be correct.

There are various simple options in contrast with the more demanding options of the professional trader. A person can accumulate gold and silver coins and keep them in a home safe or bury them on the property. A person can purchase shares of the Central Fund of Canada which convey ownership in a company that owns gold and silver bullion in a vault in Canada. A person can put money under management with companies that have a strong component of gold, such as Golden Returns Capital LLC whose gold depository is in the US.

Or you can decide to go with William S. Kaye (wskaye@pacgrp.com) whose depository is in Hong Kong.

There is GoldMoney, a Channel Islands based depository firm with storage vaults in London, Switzerland and Asia, and there is GoldSwitzerland, a Swiss company with its storage vault in Switzerland.

If you want a reading on whether physical gold is being sold or merely paper shorts, subscribe to John Brimelow brimelowgoldjottings@gmail.com

This list is not exhaustive. Protecting wealth can be harder than acquiring wealth. This is especially true for the middle class. The super rich can lose hundreds of millions of dollars and still be rich.

Gold and silver investments are not my speciality. I am an economist. I am aware that the US media is a propaganda organization, not a purveyor of truth. Currently the US is creating 1,000 billion dollars annually, but the demand for dollars is not growing with the supply.

Therefore, the exchange value of the dollar is at risk. A high and rising dollar price of bullion is an indication that the exchange value of the dollar with regard to other currencies is too high.

To protect the dollar from its money printing practice, the Fed has used naked shorts, its bullion bank dependents, and the presstitute media to drive down the gold price in the paper market, essentially an unreal market not inhabited by purchasers of physical metal. If the dollar’s exchange value takes a visible hit, import prices will rise, and the Fed will lose control over interest rates.

Meanwhile the demand for bullion possession rises.


The latest disinformation being put out is that bullion dealers, faced with the collapse of bullion prices, are afraid of the risk of purchasing bullion to sell to the public. They are going out of business and not replenishing their stocks. Gold and silver bullion is not available, because bullion dealers are afraid to stock the metals.

Little doubt that Americans who believe every fairy tale “their” government tells them will believe this one too. But those who don’t will observe the long lines waiting to purchase physical metal, not paper claims, and continue to load up on bullion.
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« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2013, 11:12:50 PM »

In Other Global Currency Trends ...  Cheesy

Felons in Charge of Our Largest Financial Institutions
By Greg Hunter's USAWatchdog.com

17 April 2013



 

Former bank regulator and Professor William Black says, “Apparently, regulators are much more sophisticated than we were because we had never thought of leaving felons in charge of our largest financial institutions.”  Dr. Black contends, “This started with the first lie of the virgin crisis–that the banks are pure and had stopped violating the law.  The second lie is that we can’t prosecute . . . because if we did, we would cause the financial system to collapse.  This is ludicrous.”   Dr. Black predicts, “The U.S. banking system is absolutely primed for the next meltdown.  Dr. Black and others think, “There is pervasive fraud at the most reputable banks. . . . The U.S. financial system is sick, and we still have the fundamental dynamic of a regulatory race to the bottom.”  Join Greg Hunter as he goes One-on-One with UMKC Professor William K. Black

Dr. William Black,
The US Banking System is Absolutely Primed for the Next Meltdown


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhWFoMEGpTI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhWFoMEGpTI</a>



Bio
Bill Black is an associate professor of economics and law. He was the executive director of the Institute for Fraud Prevention from 2005-2007. He previously taught at the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin and at Santa Clara University, where he was also the distinguished scholar in residence for insurance law and a visiting scholar at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics.
Professor Black was litigation director of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, deputy director of the FSLIC, SVP and general counsel of the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco, and senior deputy chief counsel, Office of Thrift Supervision. He was deputy director of the National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement.

His book, The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One (University of Texas Press 2005), has been called “a classic.” Professor Black recently helped the World Bank develop anti-corruption initiatives and served as an expert for OFHEO in its enforcement action against Fannie Mae’s former senior management.

He teaches white-collar crime, public finance, antitrust, law and economics, and Latin American development.

Areas of expertise
White collar crime, public finance, antitrust, economics
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« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2013, 11:36:08 PM »

In Other Global Currency Trends ... Cheesy

This Gold Slam is a Massive Wealth Transfer from Our Pockets to the Banks
It likely signals a big downdraft in the stock market, too

by Chris Martenson



I am very disappointed by, but not surprised at, the latest transfer of wealth to the bankers from everyone else.  The most recent gold bear raid has vastly enriched the bullion bankers, once again, at the expense of everyone trying to protect their wealth from global central bank money printing.

The central plank of Bernanke's magic recovery plan has been to get everybody back borrowing, spending, and "investing" in stocks, bonds, and other financial assets.  But not equally so, as he has been instrumental in distorting the landscape towards risk assets and away from safe harbors.

That's why a 2-year loan to the U.S. government will only net you 0.22%, a rate that is far below even the official rate of inflation.  In other words, loan the U.S. government $10,000,000 and you will receive just $22,000 per year for your efforts and lose wealth in the process because inflation reduced the value of your $10,000,000 by $130,000 per year.  After the two years is up, you are up $44,000 but out $260,000, for net loss of $216,000.

That wealth, or purchasing power, did not just vanish:  It was taken by the process of inflation and transferred to someone else.  But to whom did it go?  There's no easy answer for that, but the basic answer is that it went to those closest to the printing press.  It went to the government itself, which spent your $10,000,000 loan the instant you made it, and it went to the financiers who play the leveraged game of money who happen to be closest to the Fed's printing press.

This almost completely explains why the gap between the rich and everyone else is widening so rapidly, and why financiers now populate the top of every Forbes 400 list.  There is no mystery, just a process of wealth transfer of magnificent and historic proportions; one that has been repeated dozens of times throughout history.

This Gold Slam Was By and For the Bullion Banks

A while back, I noted to Adam that the gold slams that were first detected back in January were among the weakest I'd ever seen.  Back then I was seeing the usual pattern of late-night, thin-market futures dumping, which I had seen before in 2008 and 2011, two other periods when precious metals were slammed hard.

The process is simple enough to understand; if you want to move the price down for any asset, your best results will happen in a thin market when there's not a lot of participation so that whatever volume you supply has a chance of wiping out whatever bids are sitting on the books.  It is in those dark hours that the market-makers just dump, preferably as fast as possible.

This is exactly what I saw repeatedly leading up to Friday's epic dump-fest.  The mainstream media (MSM), for its part, fully supports these practices by failing to even note them.  The CFTC has never once commented on the practice, and we all know that central banks support a well-contained precious metals (PM) price because they are actively trying to build confidence in their fiat money and rising PM prices serve to reduce confidence.

Here's a perfect example of the MSM in action, courtesy of the Financial Times:


Quote

Gold tumbles to two-year low
“There is no other way to put gold’s recent sell-off: nasty,” said Joni Teves, precious metals strategist at UBS in London, adding that gold would have to work to “rebuild trust” among investors.

Tom Kendall, precious metals analyst at Credit Suisse said “Once again gold investors are being reminded that the metal is not a very effective hedge against broad-based risk-off moves in the commodity markets.”




There are two things to note in these snippets.  The first is that the main ideas being promoted about gold are that it is no longer to be trusted and that somehow the recent move is a result of "risk off" decisions – meaning, conversely, that there is increased trust in the larger financial markets that 'investors' are rotating towards.  Note that these ideas are exactly the sort of messages that central bankers quite desperately want to have conveyed.

The second observation is even more interesting, namely that the only people quoted work directly for the largest bullion banks in the world.  These are the very same outfits that stood to gain enormously if precious metals dropped in price.  Of course they are thrilled with the recent sell off.  They made billions.

In February, Credit Suisse 'predicted' that the gold market had peaked, SocGen said the end of the gold era was upon us, and recently Goldman Sachs told everyone to short the metal.

While that's somewhat interesting, you should first know that the largest bullion banks had amassed huge short positions in precious metals by January.




The CFTC rather coyly refers to the bullion banks simply as 'large traders,' but everyone knows that these are the bullion banks.  What we are seeing in that chart is that out of a range of commodities, the precious metals were the most heavily shorted, by far.

So the timeline here is easy to follow.  The bullion banks:

1.Amass a huge short position early in the game
2.Begin telling everyone to go short (wink, wink) to get things moving along in the right direction by sowing doubt in the minds of the longs
3.Begin testing the late night markets for depth by initiating mini raids (that also serve to let experienced traders know that there's an elephant or two in the room)
4.Wait for the right moment and then open the floodgates to dump such an overwhelming amount of paper gold and silver into the market that lower prices are the only possible result
5.Close their positions for massive gains and then act as if they had made a really prescient market call
6.Await their big bonus checks and wash, rinse, repeat at a later date

While I am almost 100% certain that any decent investigation by the CFTC would reveal that market manipulating 'dumping' was happening, I am equally certain that no such investigation will occur.  That's because the point of such a maneuver by the bullion banks is designed to transfer as much wealth from 'out there' and towards the center, and the CFTC is there to protect the center's 'right' to do exactly that.

This all began on Friday April 12th, and one of the better summaries is provided by Ross Norman of Sharps Pixley, a London Bullion brokerage:

***{snipped because I've already posted Ross Norman's' article elsewhere}***
To read it, please see:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=470242.msg6731798#msg6731798



The areas circled represent the largest 'dumps' of paper gold contracts that I have ever seen.  To reiterate Ross's comments, there is no possible way to explain those except as a concerted effort to drive down the price.

To put this in context, if instead of gold, this were corn we were talking about, 128,000,000 tonnes of corn would have been sold during a similar 3-hour window, as that amount represents 15% of the world's yearly harvest.  And what would have happened to the price?  It would have been driven sharply lower, of course.  That's the point; such dumping is designed to accomplish lower prices, period, and that's the very definition of market manipulation.

For a closer-up look at this process, let's turn to Sunday night and with a resolution of about 1 second (the chart above is with 5 minute 'windows,' or candles, as they are called).  Here I want you to see that whoever is trading in the thin overnight market and is responsible for setting the prices cannot possibly be human.  Humans trade small numbers of contracts and in consistently random amounts.

Here's an example:



Note that the contracts' numbers, in the single digits to tens, are randomly distributed, and that the scale on the right tops out at 80, although no single second of trades breaks 20.

Now here are a few patterns that routinely erupted throughout the drops during Sunday night (yes, I was up very late watching it all):







These are just a few of the dozens of examples I captured over a single hour of trading before I lost interest in capturing any more.

As I was watching this and discussing it with Adam in real time, I knew that I was watching the sort of HFT/computer-trading robots that we've discussed here so much in the past.  They are perfectly designed to chew through bid structures, and that's what you see above.  They are 'digesting' all the orders that were still on the books for gold, to remove them so that lower and lower stops could be run.

Anybody who had orders up against these machines, perhaps with stops in place, or perhaps even while sleeping because this all happened in the hours around midnight EST, lost and lost big.

There is really no chance to stand against players this large with a determination to drive prices lower.  At the very least, I take the above evidence of computer-assisted declines of this magnitude to be a sign that our "markets" are completely broken and quite vulnerable to a crash.  That the authorities did not step in to halt these markets during such a volatile decline, when they have repeatedly stepped into other markets and individual equity shares on lesser declines, tells me much about the level of official support for such a decline.

It also tells me that things are speeding up, and the next decline in the equity or bond markets may happen a lot faster than anybody is expecting.


Unintended Consequences

If the intended consequences of this move were to enrich the bullion banks and to chase investors away from gold and other commodities and into stocks, what are the unintended consequences going to be?

While I cannot dispute that the bullion banks made out like bandits, I also wonder if perhaps, instead of signaling that the dollar is safer than gold, the banks did not unintentionally send the larger signal that deflation is gaining the upper hand.

With deflation, everything falls apart.  It is the most feared thing to the powers that be, and for good reason.  Without inflation and at least nominal GDP growth, if not real growth, then all of the various rescues and steadily growing piles of public debt will slump towards outright failure and possibly collapse.  The unintended consequence of dropping gold so powerfully is to signal that deflation is winning the day.

If this view is correct, then the current sell-off in gold, as well as in other commodities (detailed in Part II of this report), will simply be the trigger for a loss of both confidence and liquidity in the system, and that will not bode well for the larger economy or equities.

In Part II: Protecting Your Wealth from Deflation, we explore the growing signs that the money-printing efforts of the central planners are seeing diminishing returns and are failing in their intended effect to kick global economic growth higher. Deflationary forces appear poised to take the upper hand here, sending asset prices lower – potentially much lower – across the board.

If deflation indeed manages to break out from under the central banks' efforts to contain it, even if only for a short period, how bad will the ensuing wave of price instability be? How can one position for it? How extreme will the measures the central banks take in response be? And what impact will that have on asset prices, the dollar, and precious metals?

We are entering a new chapter in the unfolding of our economic emergency, one in which the risks to capital are greater than ever.  And the rules are increasingly being re-written to the disadvantage of us individuals.

The one unfair advantage we have is that history is very clear on how these periods of economic malfeasance end.  Let's exploit that as best we're able.



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« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2013, 11:41:50 PM »

In Other Global Currency Trends ... Cheesy

Gold Buying Frenzy Continues:
China, Japan, And Australia Scramble For Physical



We noted here that the plunge in the paper price of gold (and silver) had prompted considerable renewed demand for physical and now it seems the scramble among the "more stable investor base" is increasing. The shake out of ETFs and futures has left the Australian mint short of deliverables and Japanese and Chinese gold retailers seeing a "frenzied" surge in demand. The customers are not just the 'rich' or 'elderly'; in China "they tend to wear water shoes and come directly from the market...;" in Australia, "the volume of business... is way in excess of double what we did last week,... there’s been people running through the gate," and Japanese individual investors doubled gold purchases yesterday at Tokuriki Honten, the country’s second-largest retailer of the precious metal. The panic selling by a weaker 'imminent inflation-based' investor base has sparked physical shortages - "there’s been significant sales made as people see this as great value." It seems our previous discussions of a rotation from paper to physical were correct and this physical demand will eventually leak back into the paper markets.

 

Australia (via The Age):

Gold sales from Perth Mint, which refines nearly all of the nation’s bullion, have surged after prices plunged, adding to signs that the metal’s slump to a two-year low is spurring increased demand.
 
“The volume of business that we’re putting through is way in excess of double what we did last week,” Treasurer Nigel Moffatt said, without giving precise figures. “There’s been people running through the gate.”
 
...
 
“There’s been significant sales made as people see this as great value,” Mr Moffatt said. “Gold owners are very reactive to significant market movements.”
 
...
 
The Perth Mint’s sales of gold coins climbed 49 per cent to 97,541 ounces in the three months ended March 31 from a year earlier


China (via China News): <-- best to use Chrome in order to access translation.

Beijing gold store two hours to sell 20,000 grams of gold bullion trading volume of nearly 200 million

and (via YCWB): <-- best to use Chrome in order to access translation.

People have to rush to buy gold, ... gold bullion out of stock yesterday, investors yesterday to spend as much as 600 million yuan to buy 20 kilograms of gold bars
 
The mad pursuit gold insufficiency is not just a game for the rich. Yesterday, the Yangcheng Evening News reporter learned from the East flowers to Bay store, many growers, pork traffickers, fishmonger recently put down his job went straight to the mall to buy gold.

Japan (via Reuters):

Some Japanese also harbor fears that the expansionary monetary and fiscal policies dubbed "Abenomics", coupled with a national debt more than twice as large as annual economic output, could trigger a crisis down the line.
 
Skeptics about the radical attempt to reflate the economy -- or those simply worried that a slide in the yen that began in anticipation of Abe's election victory last December will continue unabated -- are still buying gold, dealers say.
 
"Investors in gold are convinced that Japan's fiscal position will get worse," said Wakako Harada, general manager of Japan's top bullion house, Tanaka Kikinzoku Kogyo.
 
"What I see at our counter is that more people are getting worried about Japan. That's why we are seeing a lot of buying."
 
...
 
"In contrast this time, we are seeing interest to buy on dips to take exposures to gold,"
 
...
 
"Investors are using this opportunity to buy gold to diversify beyond bonds, stocks and the yen currency as Japan's fiscal situation could deteriorate."

(via The Age):

Japanese individual investors doubled gold purchases yesterday at Tokuriki Honten, the country’s second-largest retailer of the precious metal.
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« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2013, 11:51:33 PM »

China sold 800 tons of Gold paper....BUT bough and took delivery on 500 tons physical. All you need to know.

Back in the beginning of March I pointed out:

China Preparing to Impose Bretton Woods II Gold Standard




With continued volatility in the gold and silver markets, today acclaimed money manager Stephen Leeb told King World News the Chinese accumulated a remarkable 1,500 tons of gold last year, and they are preparing to demand a second Bretton Woods type meeting.This is a stunning interview because it lays out how the bulls will win the gold war, and how China will force that victory.  Here is what Leeb had to say in this exclusive interview, which is his most powerful ever:  “The flow of power and gold is going from West to East.  China may have accumulated a staggering 1,500 tons of gold last year alone.  China’s growth is now picking up steam as well.  What is really stunning is how much the yuan has increased in terms of international transactions.”

Stephen Leeb continues:

“The usage of the yuan in international transactions has been increasing at an unbelievable 170% per year.  That’s how fast the yuan has been increasing in terms of international transactions.  So goes the gold, so goes the power, and you can see it in the prominence the yuan is gaining.

The Chinese definitely have a plan here and that is to get control of gold....


Continue reading the Stephen Leeb interview below...


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/3/7_China_Preparing_To_Impose_Bretton_Woods_II_Gold_Standard.html

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« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2013, 01:13:13 AM »

Weren't you saying to buy gold because the value would continue to go up?

As many of us stated, it's on it's way down and should not be bought as you will be losing your money.

So far, we were correct.
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« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2013, 06:01:27 AM »


A buying opportunity?  This is a good time to buy gold?   Roll Eyes

I stand corrected. I should have said it was an EXCELLENT time to buy physical gold.

LOL...what a scam: 

"Buy gold when it's high, buy gold when it's low, buy gold when it's valuable, buy gold when it's worthless.  Please, please buy my Karatbars any time, any day."  

They don't call you 24KT/JaguarScams for nothing.   Grin
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« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2013, 06:02:09 AM »

Weren't you saying to buy gold because the value would continue to go up?

As many of us stated, it's on it's way down and should not be bought as you will be losing your money.

So far, we were correct.


Eggxactly!
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« Reply #58 on: April 18, 2013, 07:11:12 AM »

I stand corrected. I should have said it was an EXCELLENT time to buy physical gold.


"buy gold when it's worthless."

now thats just a silly, got carried away a bit there didn't ya.
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« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2013, 07:33:53 AM »

now thats just a silly, got carried away a bit there didn't ya.

That was the intent, just as silly as 24KT/JaguarScams saying that right now is an "EXCELLENT" time to buy gold.     Roll Eyes
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« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2013, 09:25:33 AM »

its ALWAYS a good time to buy gold....or any insurance assets.
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« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2013, 09:50:13 AM »

its ALWAYS a good time to buy gold....or any insurance assets.

How is it a good investment to buy gold now at inflated prices when we know the price is dropping?

Maybe you are talking about gold not as an investment, but as a currency in case all other currency is no longer of any value.  In other words, you are talking about buying gold and hiding in in your mattress for the day when this happens.
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« Reply #62 on: April 18, 2013, 10:04:12 AM »

How is it a good investment to buy gold now at inflated prices when we know the price is dropping?

Maybe you are talking about gold not as an investment, but as a currency in case all other currency is no longer of any value.  In other words, you are talking about buying gold and hiding in in your mattress for the day when this happens.

Gold is NOT an investment. On that premise, gold should be acquired anytime as a hedge against currency destabilization or high inflation, and a store of wealth. Investments should have liquidity as a primary pre-requisite, physical gold does not. But I've said this in my previous posts, don't want to belabor my point.

And YOU know the price is dropping? That would make you invaluable to any financial services house in the world. Right now it looks to be climbing....round and round it goes where it stops....nobody knows.
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« Reply #63 on: April 18, 2013, 10:09:11 AM »

Gold is NOT an investment. On that premise, gold should be acquired anytime as a hedge against currency destabilization or high inflation, and a store of wealth. Investments should have liquidity as a primary pre-requisite, physical gold does not. But I've said this in my previous posts, don't want to belabor my point.

And YOU know the price is dropping? That would make you invaluable to any financial services house in the world. Right now it looks to be climbing....round and round it goes where it stops....nobody knows.

That's certainly not the trend.


* Gold.jpg (41.84 KB, 198x94 - viewed 252 times.)
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« Reply #64 on: April 18, 2013, 10:22:19 AM »

That's certainly not the trend.


I don't like statistics...they're mostly used like a drunk uses a light pole, not for illumination but support.

Like your data....take out the 30 day drop and you're left with 3% down for 12 months...move back another 30 days and you might be up...shift to 6 months less the 30 day drop and you have  9% loss.

No fund managers use trends (maybe the stoopid ones) to base investment decisions on. Most use current market data, and FORWARD looking data like Buffet, Lynch, ect ect. I'm a buyer at 1350 and below. As GOLD is NOT an investment vehicle this point is moot.
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« Reply #65 on: April 18, 2013, 10:28:31 AM »

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=117649

US Mint Sells Record 63,500 Ounces Of Gold In One Day that's $85,725,000.00 if at 1350/oz
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« Reply #66 on: April 18, 2013, 10:44:20 AM »

I don't like statistics...they're mostly used like a drunk uses a light pole, not for illumination but support.

Like your data....take out the 30 day drop and you're left with 3% down for 12 months...move back another 30 days and you might be up...shift to 6 months less the 30 day drop and you have  9% loss.

No fund managers use trends (maybe the stoopid ones) to base investment decisions on. Most use current market data, and FORWARD looking data like Buffet, Lynch, ect ect. I'm a buyer at 1350 and below. As GOLD is NOT an investment vehicle this point is moot.

I have a friend who is HEAVY into gold... They are moving out of it into Diamonds.

You take that for what you will.
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« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2013, 10:52:10 AM »

Gold is NOT an investment. On that premise, gold should be acquired anytime as a hedge against currency destabilization or high inflation, and a store of wealth. Investments should have liquidity as a primary pre-requisite, physical gold does not. But I've said this in my previous posts, don't want to belabor my point.

Okay, I'm listening.  How can a middle class, college student who has say $5,000 saved up acquire physical gold as a hedge against currency destabilization or high inflation?  Where should he/she buy, what form of gold(coins, bars, etc.) should he/she acquire, where should he/she store it?
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« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2013, 11:05:51 AM »

Okay, I'm listening.  How can a middle class, college student who has say $5,000 saved up acquire physical gold as a hedge against currency destabilization or high inflation?  Where should he/she buy, what form of gold(coins, bars, etc.) should he/she acquire, where should he/she store it?

That is a tough question....mostly gold is not for the college student. Its more of a store of wealth for the upper middle class and higher value portfolio's, along with stocks, real property etc. BUT I'll take a whack at it.

First he should trade....go to pawn shops and stamp coin shops and try to find fractional AGE's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gold_Eagle) if you can buy at spot. A 1/10 would cost 140.00 you can sell on ebay 200+. Rinse repeat until and profit convert to your gold reserve. Hide it where I cant find it and you wont lay awake all night worrying about it. Some would say start with silver...I don't like silver, personal preference.

American Gold eagles, Krugerrands, Pamp bars...also look into a fishe tool testing kit, so you dont buy fakes.

If you like coins, numismatics is a fun hobby and VERY profitable once you're competent.
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« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2013, 11:25:47 AM »

That is a tough question....mostly gold is not for the college student. Its more of a store of wealth for the upper middle class and higher value portfolio's, along with stocks, real property etc. BUT I'll take a whack at it.

First he should trade....go to pawn shops and stamp coin shops and try to find fractional AGE's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gold_Eagle) if you can buy at spot. A 1/10 would cost 140.00 you can sell on ebay 200+. Rinse repeat until and profit convert to your gold reserve. Hide it where I cant find it and you wont lay awake all night worrying about it. Some would say start with silver...I don't like silver, personal preference.

American Gold eagles, Krugerrands, Pamp bars...also look into a fishe tool testing kit, so you dont buy fakes.

If you like coins, numismatics is a fun hobby and VERY profitable once you're competent.


Thank you!  So in the event of currency destabilization or high inflation, the great majority of the population is screwed, not because they didn't know better, but because they just could not afford to prepare for it?

Your suggestion about acquiring gold as insurance sounds almost like a part time, maybe a full time job, to the average person anyway.  

Can you be more specific or offer suggestions about where to store physical gold?  Hiding it where you can't find it is very vague.  Should he/she pay to store it at the bank vault, store it in a home safe, bury it in the back yard, hide it in the mattress?
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« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2013, 11:38:41 AM »

Thank you!  So in the event of currency destabilization or high inflation, the great majority of the population is crewed, not because they didn't know better, but because they just could not afford to prepare for it?

Your suggestion about acquiring gold as insurance sounds almost like a part time, maybe a full time job, to the average person anyway. 

Can you be more specific or offer suggestions about where to store physical gold?  Hiding it where you can't find it is very vague.  Should he/she pay to store it at the bank volt, store it in a home safe, bury it in the back yard, hide it in the mattress?

Yes the majority is "screwed" and historically always have been. Lenin said to destroy the middle class you grind them between two millstones, inflation and taxation...somewhat paraphrasing. Taxation destroys earnings and ability to save/invest...inflation destroys monetary wealth already owned.

Gold cannot be inflated away, nor can collectibles, precious stones, art, antiques and property ect ect...EVERYTHING can be seized, but thats a different topic.

On hiding, I was vague because I don't know. Never keep it at your residence but otherwise...Google it.
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« Reply #71 on: April 18, 2013, 12:03:55 PM »

Yes the majority is "screwed" and historically always have been. Lenin said to destroy the middle class you grind them between two millstones, inflation and taxation...somewhat paraphrasing. Taxation destroys earnings and ability to save/invest...inflation destroys monetary wealth already owned.

Gold cannot be inflated away, nor can collectibles, precious stones, art, antiques and property ect ect...EVERYTHING can be seized, but thats a different topic.

On hiding, I was vague because I don't know. Never keep it at your residence but otherwise...Google it.

Then your statement that "its ALWAYS a good time to buy gold" only applies to a very small fraction of the general population.  The only time that they could buy gold is when its value is extremely low and the currency reasonably high.

About hiding/storing gold, my point is that it's very impractical and unaffordable.  Buying physical gold right now is not only very expensive, but storing and insuring it is very expensive as well.  The average citizen just can't afford that.

Since nobody can predict the value of gold, stocks, and currency, historically the average person is better off saving and investing the money he/she would spend on buying, storing and insuring physical gold on other things, like stocks, bond, CDs, high yield savings, etc.  

Sure, the value of their currency could free fall or inflation could skyrocket, or both.  But since nobody can predict that with total accuracy, it's a more acceptable and affordable risk than depleting their income and savings right now on buying, storing and insuring physical gold.  
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« Reply #72 on: April 18, 2013, 12:17:08 PM »

That's certainly not the trend.


That's short term... and would be pertinent if you're looking at gold as a speculative vehicle.
The chart over 10 yrs or even 100 years, ...or even 6000 yrs tell a different story.

Gold has intrinsic value. and has a 6000 yr track record.
Fiat Paper currency has no real value and has a 2000 yr track record with a 100% failure rate.
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« Reply #73 on: April 18, 2013, 12:22:52 PM »

That's short term... and would be pertinent if you're looking at gold as a speculative vehicle.
The chart over 10 yrs or even 100 years, ...or even 6000 yrs tell a different story.

Gold has intrinsic value. and has a 6000 yr track record.
Fiat Paper currency has no real value and has a 2000 yr track record with a 100% failure rate.

You gonna be alive in 100 years?
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« Reply #74 on: April 18, 2013, 12:59:24 PM »

Then your statement that "its ALWAYS a good time to buy gold" only applies to a very small fraction of the general population.  The only time that they could buy gold is when its value is extremely low and the currency reasonably high.

About hiding/storing gold, my point is that it's very impractical and unaffordable.  Buying physical gold right now is not only very expensive, but storing and insuring it is very expensive as well.  The average citizen just can't afford that.

Not if one uses a dollar cost averaging approach

Quote
Since nobody can predict the value of gold, stocks, and currency, historically the average person is better off saving and investing the money he/she would spend on buying, storing and insuring physical gold on other things, like stocks, bond, CDs, high yield savings, etc.

We are not a powerless as many believe. We cannot predict what unwise decisions central planners are going to make or when, but based on fundamentals we can be assured that GOLD's long term direction is up, and stocks, bonds and paper derivatives will go to zero. I believe the market is primed for a blow up, and I have no intention of being in the middle of it when it occurs.

Quote
Sure, the value of their currency could free fall or inflation could skyrocket, or both.  But since nobody can predict that with total accuracy, it's a more acceptable and affordable risk than depleting their income and savings right now on buying, storing and insuring physical gold.  

One doesn't have to deplete their income or savings to buy store or insure physical gold... not with the right supplier. I simply take $1 out of every $4 I set aside for savings, and use that to acquire my "financial insurance"
When prices dip, ...I acquire a bit more.

From my perspective... we insure our home, we insure our cars, we insure our lives, we insure our "things"... but what is required of us to acquire those "things" in the first place? It's money. So as far as I'm concerned, it makes darned good sense to insure the money first & foremost. That's just how I see it.

there are plenty of good reasons to acquire gold. The average Joe not being able to also afford to buy gold, doesn't change the need for gold in a person's portfolio. Rather than look for an alternative to gold, I think it's far better to look for an alternative way to acquire it.
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