Ricin terrorist is confirmed to be christian?

[loco]

how about hitler wasn't he catholic

"The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay."

Joseph Goebbels(one of Hitler's closest associates and most devout followers), The Holy Reich by Richard Steigmann-Gall, p. 253



“You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

Adolf Hitler as reported by Albert Speer(Hitler's chief architect before becoming his Minister for Armaments during the war), The Holy Reich by Richard Steigmann-Gall, p. 252-253



On Martin Bormann, Head of the Party Chancellery and private secretary of the Fuhrer
"Nazism, based as it was on a 'scientific' world-view, was completely incompatible with Christianity whose influence was regarded by Bormann as a serious obstacle to totalitarian rule"
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/bormann.html

[loco]

yeah, but they didn't murder people because due to their Atheism

haven't we been over this before many times

let's face it

All kinds of people commit murder and sometimes fundies do it and they often state their reasons as their religious belief (though my personal opinion is that even these people are crazy and that is the real reason)

So what?  They were atheists, and they murdered many millions of innocent people.   Stalin alone murdered millions.  Mao alone murdered millions.  Pol Pot alone murdered millions.  

The worst religious nut job can't compare by far.

[OzmO]

Not arguing either way about hitler, but gobbles, the propganda mister's comments as support for your argument?   

[Straw Man]

So what?  They were atheists, and they murdered many millions of innocent people.   Stalin alone murdered millions.  Mao alone murdered millions.  Pol Pot alone murdered millions.  

The worst religious nut job can't compare by far.

and again, Stalin, Mao did not commit murder due to being atheists
they were eliminating political rivals
how many times are you going to trot out the same nonsense

like i said, rationalization seems to be a large part of christianity

[OzmO]

and again, Stalin, Mao did not commit murder due to being atheists
they were eliminating political rivals
how many times are you going to trot out the same nonsense

like i said, rationalization seems to be a large part of christianity

Works both way too.  It could be rationalized that BUSH was a Christian and killed thousands of Iraqis.

[24KT]

Christians or the catholic church?

There is a difference. But, you don't know that.

By the way. Anyone who kills in the name of Christ is not a christian. So no. True Christians have never been terrorists.

Now atheists and false religious teachers is a different story.

I understand your reasoning here Dario73.

Tell me, would you grant the same to those who feel that way about islam?

I know many who claim that anyone who kills in the name of Islam, is not a true muslim even if they claim to be.

[Straw Man]

Works both way too.  It could be rationalized that BUSH was a Christian and killed thousands of Iraqis.

what is the rationalization in that statement?

is it that he is not really a christian or that that he was doing the lords work when killing thousands (possibly hundreds of thousand of innocent men, women and children given the sanctions and other shit)

[OzmO]

what is the rationalization in that statement?

is it that he is not really a christian or that that he was doing the lords work when killing thousands (possibly hundreds of thousand of innocent men, women and children given the sanctions and other shit)

Well, it seems like what some are saying is that Stalin and Mao were atheists and mass murderers.  Supporting the argument:  atheist commit more mass murders than Christians.

You countered that by saying that their beliefs in region were irrelevant because they killed these people to eliminate political rivals.

I just reversed it, showing it also works boths ways.  BUSH is Christian and he ordered the invasion of Iraq resulting in the death of thousands of Iraqis.  Using the same logic you can say BUSH committed mass murder as a Christian.  


Did Stalin and Mao order the killings for atheistic reasons? Or political reasons?

did Bush order the invasion of Iraq for religious reasons or preemptive, political, etc (what ever you believe) reasons?

In a sense I am saying you can apply that logic both, hence its flawed to say bush did it because he was Christian or Stalin did it because he was atheist.

And how can we actually keep count of religious leaders or leaders who were religious  through out history who killed and started wars vs those who were not?

[tonymctones]

and again, Stalin, Mao did not commit murder due to being atheists
they were eliminating political rivals
how many times are you going to trot out the same nonsense

like i said, rationalization seems to be a large part of christianity

One could argue that it was the lack or religion and therefor morals that is inherent in atheism that allowed these sick ppl to murder so many

[MCWAY]

and again, Stalin, Mao did not commit murder due to being atheists
they were eliminating political rivals
how many times are you going to trot out the same nonsense

like i said, rationalization seems to be a large part of christianity

And those political rivals were Christians, Jews, and anyone who believe in a power higher than the state.

Atheism, in its purest form, is simply man worshipping himself. Hitler, Mao, and the others wanted their subjects to see them as their salvation, not their God. So, the argument can be made that they were indeed atheists.


And, as Loco said, the blood they spilled make the Crusades look like a lingerie pillow fight.

[OzmO]

One could argue that it was the lack or religion and therefor morals that is inherent in atheism that allowed these sick ppl to murder so many

Are they?  I have seen it been argued that the moral code with ahtiests is stricter.

[Al Doggity]

One could argue that it was the lack or religion and therefor morals that is inherent in atheism that allowed these sick ppl to murder so many

  Because people who claim to have  religious backgrounds always behave morally? And there have never been murders committed in the name of religion?

BTW,Lack of religion =/= lack of morals.

[Archer77]

Did he do it for Jesus or Elvis? 

[whork]

And those political rivals were Christians, Jews, and anyone who believe in a power higher than the state.

Atheism, in its purest form, is simply man worshipping himself. Hitler, Mao, and the others wanted their subjects to see them as their salvation, not their God. So, the argument can be made that they were indeed atheists.


And, as Loco said, the blood they spilled make the Crusades look like a lingerie pillow fight.

How about not worshipping anyone Mcway?

[Al Doggity]

Atheism, in its purest form, is simply man worshipping himself. Hitler, Mao, and the others wanted their subjects to see them as their salvation, not their God. So, the argument can be made that they were indeed atheists.

This is complete bullshit.

[OzmO]

I see it as the abcense of the need to worship anything.  Live only based on what you can prove, see, touch,tangible etc. 

[Al Doggity]

I see it as the abcense of the need to worship anything.  Live only based on what you can prove, see, touch,tangible etc. 

This thread is a perfect example of how warped some Christians' perspectives can be. "Worshipping" something is not a biological obligation. Morals don't exist because of religion. These posts exemplify the worst of Christian stereotypes: brain-dead zombies.

[Archer77]

This is complete bullshit.

I agree.   National socialism was a religious cult and does not represent atheism.  Also, morality and ethics are biological phenomenon.  We have evolved to be social creatures who depend on each other.  Humans give birth to extremely vulnerable offspring who require more care and nurturing than other species.  Human offspring take much longer than other species to mature to adulthood as well.

For this reason, humans have formed societies as a means of increasing offspring survival.  Understand we are not born with instincts as other animals are.  Humans need time to learn specific skills of society.  Societies affirm those skills.

We are stronger against threats such as predators and the elements working together. Morality, specifically empathy, has developed to cement societal relationship- well enough to create a semblance of order at least.

This is such a complex topic it is nearly impossible to really discuss on a forum.

[Straw Man]

One could argue that it was the lack or religion and therefor morals that is inherent in atheism that allowed these sick ppl to murder so many

first you would have to prove the "lack of religion and therefore morals" claim

[Straw Man]

And those political rivals were Christians, Jews, and anyone who believe in a power higher than the state.

Atheism, in its purest form, is simply man worshipping himself. Hitler, Mao, and the others wanted their subjects to see them as their salvation, not their God. So, the argument can be made that they were indeed atheists.


And, as Loco said, the blood they spilled make the Crusades look like a lingerie pillow fight.

Atheism as worshiping oneself is your perspective (which of course is derived from your own personal religious beliefs)

I know that fundies like to pretend that somehow they have some moral high ground and they definitely love this idea that Stalin, Hitler (fill in the blank) we evil pieces of shit DUE TO the claim they were atheist but it's simply not true (as it zero proof has been offered to support this claim)

Now, if you could offer some actual historical proof such as these guys saying their atheism was their motivation or inspiration to commit atrocities you might have something

[tonymctones]

first you would have to prove the "lack of religion and therefore morals" claim

what morals does atheism subscribe to?

[BikiniSlut]

It is impossible to be a terrorist and a christian.

Yes, according to many Getbiggers. Apparently only people that follow Islam can be terrorists.

[Straw Man]

what morals does atheism subscribe to?

morals or lack thereof have nothing to do with religion

there are moral atheists and immoral religious people

I assume you well know this and are just playing dumb for some reason

[blacken700]

morals or lack thereof have nothing to do with religion

there are moral atheists and immoral religious people

I assume you well know this and are just playing dumb for some reason

 

[tonymctones]

morals or lack thereof have nothing to do with religion

there are moral atheists and immoral religious people

I assume you well know this and are just playing dumb for some reason

absolutely there are moral atheist just as their are immoral religious ppl, the practice of the individual subscriber to the respect theology is irrelevant.

you are wrong in saying morals have nothing to do with religion....religion teaches morals whether you agree with them or not

Atheism doesnt subscribe to any moral code, atheist can be moral but it has nothing to do with the fact they are atheist.

Religious ppl can be moral and it can be a direct relation to their religion.

If you disagree, Ill ask again...what morals does atheism subscribe to?

I can tell you what morals christianity subscribes to, why cant you tell us what morals atheism subscribes to?

b/c there are none!!!!