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Author Topic: 'Child' marriage in bible  (Read 2661 times)
AR.2007
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« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2013, 09:52:22 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tZmLGPgzuY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tZmLGPgzuY</a>

time to find another arugment to use against islam. the typical "9 years old" nonsense wont, work anymore.
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AR.2007
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« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2013, 10:09:36 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLAgMIurgFs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLAgMIurgFs</a>

Islam against dogs and orders muslims to kill them? - nope. another myth BUSTED.

this should be a MYTH BUSTED thread.
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« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2013, 05:16:23 AM »

Why does God like to play hide and seek? Maybe he should burst out through the clouds and set things straight for once.
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« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2013, 09:45:35 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tZmLGPgzuY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tZmLGPgzuY</a>

time to find another arugment to use against islam. the typical "9 years old" nonsense wont, work anymore.

Two days ago the ages of 6 and 9 were defended.....that still happened remember.  ahmed even invented an unbiblical parallel with Mary and Joseph to somehow back himself up......that also happened.  He threw every 10 second google he could at the argument to justify sex with a small child.  

Today, after a bit of googlin and youtubin the age is magically 19 and the 6 and 9 (although previously defended) is now debunked....fantastic!!!  Please note that the video author simply manipulates the date range to make his argument work.  Plus he prefaces the argument with the notion that "he's refuting the lie that stupid Christians make because they don't understand Islam".  LOL, the argument comes straight from Islamic material....there's no intervention on part of anyone else in the world....this is all Islam!  This guy is disingenuous from moment one.

Here's another gentleman whose vids have been repeatedly posted.....here's his take:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT-Rh1auG0A" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT-Rh1auG0A</a>

Essentially for the first 2 minutes Dr. Naik discusses the theory of "19" with the invented concept of the missing ashara (magically adds 10 to 9 making 19....I checked the math) in the hadiths (according to the theories of modern Islamic scholars) and then he quickly comments that the hadiths in the Sahih Bukhari might not be authentic.  Yet quickly closes this discussion by aluding to the fact that this notion isn't verifiable either, but that he believes the hadiths are authentic as are the ages of 6 and 9.  In a nutshell we refer to this situation as "wishful thinking" on part of Islamic theologians.  ahmed has often mentioned how inventive and creative Muslims are....he's right, they invent stuff all the time.

The remaining 3.5 minutes are then dedicated to justifying the "act of marriage" based upon ages of puberty and menstruation in young girls and how climate and other environmental factors influence puberty in girls worldwide.  As if achieving puberty and "having Aunt Flo visit" somehow logically justifies the appropriateness of engaging in marriage?  He even mentions that in the state of Texas the legal age to marry is 14.  Guess what?  I live in Texas and the legal age is 18.  What he refers to is an instance in which young teens act irresponsibly and get pregnant at 14 and can then marry for the sake of the unborn child provided parental consent is given (none of that is mentioned though)....it isn't the standard it's a one-off disguised as the standard based on audience ignorance....classy.

That said, both videos focus (conveniently) on the "act of marriage at 9", but she was married at 6 and had sex at 9.  It's the "act of sex with a child" that isn't mentioned.  Fine, the first video author and Dr. Naik indicates marriage at 6 and consummation at 9 once; still, Dr. Naik completely redirects the focus to marriage at puberty.   The attempt is to first justify marriage based on early ages of puberty via menstruation and thereby justify sex with the child .....nonsense....logical fallacy...most likely a nonsequitor.  

And why bother with the soft, clinical term “consummated”?  He had sex with a small girl…..he put his penis in a small child!!  In my house that activity earns the perpetrator a quick, forced exit through a wall (a la Willie Coyote on an ACME rocket).   Oh sure, physically a female child may hit puberty at 11, but that isn't a golden ticket to have sex with her because her body is “capable” (a completely subjective notion by the way).  Children aren't emotionally prepared for such an act and those that claim they are often learn later in life (typically in the care of psychologist) that they weren't prepared.  I can recall girls in the 3rd and 4th grade that had early menstruation and they were terrified by that situation in and of itself, but nevermind all that emotional maturity business, right?  Aisha was light years beyond her age in maturity....yeah right.  Plus it's the prophet Muhammad (pb&j) that engaged in the act so all is good because he's without fault and the perfect, righteous example for all to follow.....nonsense.   He made a mistake so own it, learn from it, definitely don’t repeat it and that’s that.
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« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2013, 11:14:04 AM »

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« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2013, 02:05:36 PM »

And what we can learn from them...found this book
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/47941.Bad_Girls_of_the_Bible
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« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2013, 10:31:24 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHcNLRiezrA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHcNLRiezrA</a>

why is there so much incest, adultery, drunkness basically all rated R type things in the Bible? the Word of God wouldnt have such dirty and disgusting things. Bible isnt the true word of God anymore, it was at once, but not anymore. Humans tainted it.
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2013, 09:19:22 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHcNLRiezrA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHcNLRiezrA</a>

why is there so much incest, adultery, drunkness basically all rated R type things in the Bible? the Word of God wouldnt have such dirty and disgusting things. Bible isnt the true word of God anymore, it was at once, but not anymore. Humans tainted it.
The bible tells the story of God working through the lives of people to deliver them from their sinful ways.  Why are disgusting acts such as murder, rape, slavery, incest, adultery, drunkness, etc...included in the bible?  Because it directly addresses the reality and history of the sin of people and culminates with how all can be forever delivered from that sin through the Son of God Jesus Christ.   
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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2013, 10:01:50 AM »

What is the point of including verses such as a woman lusting after men's penises that are the size of donkeys? Godly language? There is nothing educational from that, except porn. Imagine children being enlightened reading about donkey size penises in the bible

But more importantly, the verse about Mary being betrothed to Joseph before even being married to Jesus. That's the verse you hate being shown the most. Because bible scholars conclude she was in the 11-14 age when she gave birth to Jesus. Most people will try to push for the older number which is 14. Those that claim 17, 19, 20+ lol... are revisionists who try to conform to the British established age of consent.
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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2013, 10:09:35 AM »

I love how you can start bashing Islam, Muslims, Muhammad (pbuh), etc... alongside an atheist that equally hates you but is two faced in order to attack Islam with you and you play along but then go into denial and start deleting my thread and posts relating to the age of Mary (pbuh).

All I was stating are the facts, such as the age of boys with bar mitzvah, meaning of it, the age of girls being married all up until the last two centuries, and the real reason for the age of consent being etsablish. Historical and cultural comparison around the world and the differences in maturity and other factors.

According to standard Jewish custom of the time of Jesus, girls were betrothed around the age of twelve or twelve and a half.[7] During the betrothal period, which lasted about a year, the marriage was not consummated and the bride remained in her parent's house.[8] Betrothal was formalised by a contract regulating such matters as the transfer of property and provision for the wife and children should the husband die; voiding the contract required a divorce document freeing the girl to remarry.[9]


^ Deiss 2010, p. 25.
^ Lachs 1987, p. 6.
^ Saldarini 2003, p. 1007.

It was indeed common for people to marry young. The fact that Britishers had child prostitution and abuse problems does not change the fact that in the rest of the world people married young. Rape, abuse and prostitution are one thing, but marriage is another. Whether you like it or disagree with it. Personally no I would never marry someone younger than me and a teen, in fact I married someone 4 years older than me as I found them mature. Age is but a number.

It is unrealistic in today's western society for someone the age of 12 to marry as they are totally immature mentally compared to girls or boys from the rest of the world and from the past. A 15 year old can't do squat now a days and is spoiled, hell most 20 year olds are. That does not however mean that every 15, 20, whatever year old is immature in the rest of the world or even in the west just because the majority are.
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« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2013, 11:47:07 AM »

What is the point of including verses such as a woman lusting after men's penises that are the size of donkeys? Godly language? There is nothing educational from that, except porn. Imagine children being enlightened reading about donkey size penises in the bible

"But more importantly, the verse about Mary being betrothed to Joseph before even being married to Jesus. That's the verse you hate being shown the most." Because bible scholars conclude she was in the 11-14 age when she gave birth to Jesus. Most people will try to push for the older number which is 14. Those that claim 17, 19, 20+ lol... are revisionists who try to conform to the British established age of consent.
"What is the point of including verses such as a woman lusting after men's penises that are the size of donkeys? Godly language? There is nothing educational from that, except porn. Imagine children being enlightened reading about donkey size penises in the bible"

Here's end of chapter 23 that addresses their despicable acts and God's treatment of such things:

37 for they have committed adultery and blood is on their hands. They committed adultery with their idols; they even sacrificed their children, whom they bore to me, as food for them. 38 They have also done this to me: At that same time they defiled my sanctuary and desecrated my Sabbaths. 39 On the very day they sacrificed their children to their idols, they entered my sanctuary and desecrated it. That is what they did in my house.

46 “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Bring a mob against them and give them over to terror and plunder. 47 The mob will stone them and cut them down with their swords; they will kill their sons and daughters and burn down their houses.
48 “So I will put an end to lewdness in the land, that all women may take warning and not imitate you. 49 You will suffer the penalty for your lewdness and bear the consequences of your sins of idolatry. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.”

The reason is pretty straightforward and included right there in the same chapter.

"But more importantly, the verse about Mary being betrothed to Joseph before even being married to Jesus. That's the verse you hate being shown the most."


There is no such verse.  Mary didn't marry Jesus.

"Because bible scholars conclude she was in the 11-14 age when she gave birth to Jesus. Most people will try to push for the older number which is 14. Those that claim 17, 19, 20+ lol... are revisionists who try to conform to the British established age of consent."


We don't know Mary's age and I already knew what scholars have said.  I've posted about it in the past.

I love how you can start bashing Islam, Muslims, Muhammad (pbuh), etc...

I honestly stopped reading here because I haven't bashed Islam or Muslims, but make no mistake I completely disagree with what Muhammad did to Aisha....I find it disgusting.  And I'm offended by attempts to justify it by continually inventing justfications.

Now, since Ron has asked that topics of marriage to and sex with small children not be defended or publicized on his site this thread will join the already locked thread.  If Ron chooses to delete it we will let him do that.



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