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Author Topic: Americans fear government more than terror  (Read 605 times)
Roger Bacon
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« on: April 29, 2013, 03:53:25 PM »

hmmmmmmmm..... People are wising up? Huh

Americans fear government more than terror
Astonishing poll results for 1st time since 9/11 hijackings
Published: 1 day ago

According to a pair of recent polls, for the first time since the 9/11 terrorist hijackings, Americans are more fearful their government will abuse constitutional liberties than fail to keep its citizens safe.

Even in the wake of the April 15 Boston Marathon bombing – in which a pair of Islamic radicals are accused of planting explosives that took the lives of 3 and wounded over 280 – the polls suggest Americans are hesitant to give up any further freedoms in exchange for increased “security.”

A Fox News survey polling a random national sample of 619 registered voters the day after the bombing found despite the tragic event, those interviewed responded very differently than following 9/11.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/americans-fear-government-more-than-terror/
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Hugo Chavez
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 04:00:10 PM »

I'm more worried about the direction of government and LE than being killed by a terrorist.  You're way more likely to be killed violently driving a few miles from home. I don't really give a shit about myself, I'll get old and be gone soon enough, but for my kid and maybe grandkids some day, I want them to grow up in a free America.  Not something that looks like it belongs in a scary totalitarian sci fi movie.
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 05:04:21 PM »

hmmmmmmmm..... People are wising up? Huh





No.



If you need any indication that terrorism can be effective in ushering in the police state, check out question #7 on your poll and the past trend.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2013/04/17/fox-news-poll-boston-marathon-bombings/
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 05:16:10 PM »



No.



If you need any indication that terrorism can be effective in ushering in the police state, check out question #7 on your poll and the past trend.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2013/04/17/fox-news-poll-boston-marathon-bombings/


Actually shows a significant downward trend since 9/11 (71% down to 43%).  

Also not sure what they mean by personal freedoms.  Is it a longer wait at customs, or strip searches, etc.?  
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 05:40:09 PM »

Actually shows a significant downward trend since 9/11 (71% down to 43%).  

Also not sure what they mean by personal freedoms.  Is it a longer wait at customs, or strip searches, etc.?  



That's my point.  Look at the one earlier.  That moment something happens, people will drop personal freedom for 'security'.
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 05:42:34 PM »



That's my point.  Look at the one earlier.  That moment something happens, people will drop personal freedom for 'security'.

That's a normal reaction.  I don't agree with extremes on either end, but when a terrorist shows how vulnerable we are, people naturally want to feel safer. 
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 06:17:43 PM »

That's a normal reaction.  I don't agree with extremes on either end, but when a terrorist shows how vulnerable we are, people naturally want to feel safer.  

It might be a normal reaction but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.  There's almost no discussion or worry from the media or government how some of the changes that have been accepted will have any sort of check to prevent misuse.

Now we have Bloomberg warning people that the camera systems will be watching everyone and it could be coming from the person sitting next to you in the coffee shop, you won't see the cameras in his words...  Wow, that's some iron curtain stuff right there.  "We're watching YOU!" lol  They've made sure to let everyone know that you can be tracked and listened to at any time via your cell phone even if it's off. Building DNA databases of everyone.  Increasing background checks and access to medical records... Greater access to your personal finances... They make no secret out of the fact they want total information awareness of what everyone is doing at any given time, who they're talking to and where they're spending their money.  Now I guess people can say that no freedom has been lost.  You can still run around and do all the legal things you were doing before, just a few more eyes and ears on you and if you're not doing anything wrong then what do you have to worry about lol...  

Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.  We're building the infrastructure for total information awareness on the citizens without a clue of what the next gen of politicians or the ones after that will be like?  YIKES.  Sorry, that's insane.  Freedom isn't having somebody listen, record, track and watch over your shoulder in everything you do; even if you never intend on doing anything bad, this is bad.  That's Big Brother, or the clear opening for, no doubt about it.
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 06:37:40 PM »

It might be a normal reaction but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.  There's almost no discussion or worry from the media or government how some of the changes that have been accepted will have any sort of check to prevent misuse.

Now we have Bloomberg warning people that the camera systems will be watching everyone and it could be coming from the person sitting next to you in the coffee shop, you won't see the cameras in his words...  Wow, that's some iron curtain stuff right there.  "We're watching YOU!" lol  They've made sure to let everyone know that you can be tracked and listened to at any time via your cell phone even if it's off. Building DNA databases of everyone.  Increasing background checks and access to medical records... Greater access to your personal finances... They make no secret out of the fact they want total information awareness of what everyone is doing at any given time, who they're talking to and where they're spending their money.  Now I guess people can say that no freedom has been lost.  You can still run around and do all the legal things you were doing before, just a few more eyes and ears on you and if you're not doing anything wrong then what do you have to worry about lol...  

Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.  We're building the infrastructure for total information awareness on the citizens without a clue of what the next gen of politicians or the ones after that will be like?  YIKES.  Sorry, that's insane.  Freedom isn't having somebody listen, record, track and watch over your shoulder in everything you do; even if you never intend on doing anything bad, this is bad.  That's Big Brother, or the clear opening for, no doubt about it.

You raise some good points.  Part of me thinks the cameras watching people in a public place isn't that big of a deal, because people walking or sitting in a public place don't really have a reasonable expectation of privacy.  On the other hand, cameras everywhere leads to listening to private conversations, etc., so I can definitely see where increased oversight by the government can lead to abuse.  

I'm not sure there is a good solution.  I don't want the government stepping into my private life, but I also don't want to make the job of the people who want to kill us any easier.

What should happen is reasonable steps (whatever those are) should be taken whenever the dust settles, in between whatever crises we're dealing with.  As much as most of us value our privacy, we cannot sit back and do nothing.  It's a different world.        
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 06:56:40 PM »

Honestly sometimes I wonder how neccesairly some of it is.  I suspect it is more like politicians pandering to people fears by supporting new laws that aren't really needed.  That way they can't be accused of turning their heads.  Overkill for votes. 
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 07:07:37 PM »

This thread is spot on.   

I would gladly take my chances anyday vs a terrorist as opposed to the increasing police state
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 07:24:13 PM »

Honestly sometimes I wonder how neccesairly some of it is.  I suspect it is more like politicians pandering to people fears by supporting new laws that aren't really needed.  That way they can't be accused of turning their heads.  Overkill for votes. 

Sometimes we don't know if we've done enough till after it's too late. 
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Hugo Chavez
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 07:25:44 PM »

Honestly sometimes I wonder how neccesairly some of it is.  I suspect it is more like politicians pandering to people fears by supporting new laws that aren't really needed.  That way they can't be accused of turning their heads.  Overkill for votes. 
and the cha-ching factor like gigantorX points out.  
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 07:41:56 PM »

This is just creepy:

“You’re never going to know where all of our cameras are,” Bloomberg told reporters gathered outside City Hall. “And that’s one of the ways you deter people; they just don’t know whether the person sitting next to you is somebody sitting there or a detective watching.”--Bloomberg

At the point where we have to make all citizens paranoid of what they say or do, it's gone overboard imo.
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2013, 08:05:41 PM »

This thread is spot on.  

I would gladly take my chances anyday vs a terrorist as opposed to the increasing police state

Same!!

I can fight some Arab extremist myself, I can't fight the police state.  Lips sealed
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2013, 08:07:37 PM »

Former Rep. Ron Paul said the law enforcement that swarmed around Boston in the days following the marathon bombings was scarier than the actual terrorist attack.

“The Boston bombing provided the opportunity for the government to turn what should have been a police investigation into a military-style occupation of an American city,” he said on the Lew Rockwell website, Politico reported.

“This unprecedented move should frighten us as much or more than the attack itself.”

(snip)

Mr. Paul, a former libertarian political candidate who served in Congress as a member of the Republican Party, said the door-to-door searches police conducted in Watertown for the bombing suspects were particularly alarming.

They reminded of a “military coup in a far off banana republic,” he said, Politico reported. “Force lockdown of a city. Militarized police riding tanks in the streets. Door-to-door armed searches without warrant. Families thrown out of their homes at gunpoint to be searched without probable cause. Businesses forced to close. Transport shut down.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/29/ron-paul-police-manhunt-boston-marathon-bombing-su/#ixzz2RtCqo8ta
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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2013, 08:54:20 PM »

Former Rep. Ron Paul said the law enforcement that swarmed around Boston in the days following the marathon bombings was scarier than the actual terrorist attack.
And check out how much Paul just got attacked in the media for saying that.  Google Ron Paul on the news section...  Holy shit at the ridiculous hit Salon put out on him...
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2013, 12:47:24 AM »

This is just creepy:

“You’re never going to know where all of our cameras are,” Bloomberg told reporters gathered outside City Hall. “And that’s one of the ways you deter people; they just don’t know whether the person sitting next to you is somebody sitting there or a detective watching.”--Bloomberg

At the point where we have to make all citizens paranoid of what they say or do, it's gone overboard imo.

What will probably end up happening is a backlash against all the cameras.
I could see people routinely taking out those cameras as a form of protest.

Can you imagine the nightmare, not to mention the increased expense to have to constantly replace and/or secure the cameras?
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« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2013, 01:19:36 AM »

What will probably end up happening is a backlash against all the cameras.
I could see people routinely taking out those cameras as a form of protest.

Can you imagine the nightmare, not to mention the increased expense to have to constantly replace and/or secure the cameras?
There will not be a backlash against cctv by the public.  Sure, I have had the occasional fantasy of taking out the fucking anonymous eyeball staring me down but I wouldn't ever dare to do anything about it.  No fucking way..  Sorry, family to worry about, which pathetically the people behind the anonymous eyeballs probably count on.   But I sure don't appreciate a camera pointed at my face without knowing who is on the other side.  It's sick and wrong in so many ways.  We are not suppose to have an expectation of privacy in public but the butthead on the other side of the anonymous camera does?  Yea that's not quite right.

A few years back I posted on some of my own research after finding out that McDonalds and other restaurants like Olive Garden where putting in shit to not only watch people but hear what they were saying.  When I tracked down the company they were contracted with, they had images of people watching and maybe listening in on tables like it was a good thing they were doing.  The company bragged about the awesome listening capabilities they had on their site.  Who that company sent info onto, I dunno.  Since that time it looks like they have removed the signs that had me look into it in the first place so... hmmm
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« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2013, 01:52:50 AM »

There will not be a backlash against cctv by the public.  Sure, I have had the occasional fantasy of taking out the fucking anonymous eyeball staring me down but I wouldn't ever dare to do anything about it.  No fucking way..  Sorry, family to worry about, which pathetically the people behind the anonymous eyeballs probably count on.   But I sure don't appreciate a camera pointed at my face without knowing who is on the other side.  It's sick and wrong in so many ways.  We are not suppose to have an expectation of privacy in public but the butthead on the other side of the anonymous camera does?  Yea that's not quite right.

I disagree. I think if you have people willing to shoot down drones, there will be those willing to take out cctv.


Quote
A few years back I posted on some of my own research after finding out that McDonalds and other restaurants like Olive Garden where putting in shit to not only watch people but hear what they were saying.  When I tracked down the company they were contracted with, they had images of people watching and maybe listening in on tables like it was a good thing they were doing.  The company bragged about the awesome listening capabilities they had on their site.  Who that company sent info onto, I dunno.  Since that time it looks like they have removed the signs that had me look into it in the first place so... hmmm

That's super creepy
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« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2013, 01:55:26 AM »

There are huge semantic/interpretive issues with polling data, and I don't like how loose and sloppy both poll takers and poll readers tend to be. It isn't obvious to me that being more concerned about rights violations than the under-investigation of terrorism is the same as 'fearing government more than terrorists.' I'm inclined to say it's a rather different meaning.
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2013, 02:14:29 AM »

I disagree. I think if you have people willing to shoot down drones, there will be those willing to take out cctv.


That's super creepy

People will not be shooting down drones in America..  At some point we will go full on skynet Cheesy no doubt and you'll see people talking about it in the media like it is absolutely what we need to keep us safe.  

On the creepy restaurant shit, I thought it was pretty creepy that my original thread on it complete with screen captures of the listening watching stations vanished.  I have another thread where I resurrected it without the pics but the good thread just kinda went byebye.
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2013, 02:30:07 AM »

People will not be shooting down drones in America..  At some point we will go full on skynet Cheesy no doubt and you'll see people talking about it in the media like it is absolutely what we need to keep us safe.

People are already shooting down drones that are flying over the USA

Quote
On the creepy restaurant shit, I thought it was pretty creepy that my original thread on it complete with screen captures of the listening watching stations vanished.  I have another thread where I resurrected it without the pics but the good thread just kinda went byebye.

That's nothing new, ...I've had a lot of threads go bye bye from this board.  
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« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2013, 02:31:23 AM »

Anyway, the respondents are in the right here in that death by terrorism is extraordinarily unlikely, whereas the loss of rights is definite. But then the question arises: is the fact that such death is so unlikely partly a function of the restriction of rights which has occurred? If so, how much so? If it's a lot -- and I don't know if it is but I tend to think not -- then ironically it is the restriction of rights which affords people the privilege of being more concerned about such restrictions, since they are making the likelihood -- and thus concern -- over terrorist incidents so much lower.
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« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2013, 02:33:22 AM »

People are already shooting down drones that are flying over the USA

That's nothing new, ...I've had a lot of threads go bye bye from this board.  Cheesy


On the drones being shot down, I never heard of that?  link?

On YOUR threads vanishing, I have heard of that from more than one source Grin
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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2013, 02:37:20 AM »

On the drones being shot down, I never heard of that?  link?

Just google it, or do a search on YouTube, if the vids are still there.

On YOUR threads vanishing, I have heard of that from more than one source Grin

Oh that made me burst out laughing. Yes Hugo, I'm sure that comes as no surprise whatsoever to you.  Grin
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