Anyone else anticipating the new XBOX reveal tomorrow?

[King Shizzo]

So you're of the belief that the PS3 had a positive impact on Sony?

I dont even think they made any money on the consoles. They were losing money on every unit sold for at least the first few years.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I dont even think they made any money on the consoles. They were losing money on every unit sold for at least the first few years.

At the beginning they weren't but they did turn a profit. The first consoles cost Sony $800 to build and were selling for $599

[NarcissisticDeity]

So you're of the belief that the PS3 had a positive impact on Sony?

That hack were all users info was compromised sure as fuck didn't. I think they had a rocky start and it came around towards the end , I still don't think the full capability of the system was utilized and they made a lot of mistakes

[deadpan]

That hack were all users info was compromised sure as fuck didn't. I think they had a rocky start and it came around towards the end , I still don't think the full capability of the system was utilized and they made a lot of mistakes

that happens all the time though, happened with Steam and you don't see everyone jumping ship. i'm pretty sure it happened to xbox too at some point. fact is most companies really don't have a whole lot in the way of tech security.

[Grape Ape]

That hack were all users info was compromised sure as fuck didn't. I think they had a rocky start and it came around towards the end , I still don't think the full capability of the system was utilized and they made a lot of mistakes

Regardless, I don't think the console had a positive overall impact, in fact, I believe it was pretty bad.

Either way, when you consider the built in user base from the wildly successful PS2, coupled with the fact that Sony dominates Japan no matter what, it fell way short of expectations.   This generation was theirs to lose, and they lost it.

I owned both consoles, and am not a Sony hater.  Microsoft and Nintendo just beat them.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Regardless, I don't think the console had a positive overall impact, in fact, I believe it was pretty bad.

Either way, when you consider the built in user base from the wildly successful PS2, coupled with the fact that Sony dominates Japan no matter what, it fell way short of expectations.   This generation was theirs to lose, and they lost it.

I owned both consoles, and am not a Sony hater.  Microsoft and Nintendo just beat them.

Regardless, I don't think the console had a positive overall impact, in fact, I believe it was pretty bad.

Positive impact? maybe not , bad? No.

Either way, when you consider the built in user base from the wildly successful PS2, coupled with the fact that Sony dominates Japan no matter what, it fell way short of expectations.   This generation was theirs to lose, and they lost it.

I agree the PS3 didn't replicate the success of the PS2 and I think you're right about falling short of expectations which is why I said I don't think the PS3's full capabilities were fully utilized 

I owned both consoles, and am not a Sony hater.  Microsoft and Nintendo just beat them.

Beat them how? sales? Microsoft didn't they sold about the same amount of units , I think the PS3 is a better system and Live being the better online experience but you have to pay for it.

Microsoft payed out over $1 billion dollars to fix the problems with the RROD , I don't think that's beating Sony on any level and that made Microsoft look really bad , at first they denied responsibility for failures then it got to a point of 33% of Xbox's were failing and they had to address that issue , the original failures with the Xbox was due to rush to production to beat the PS3   

Then the whole HD Dvd debacle , and if you look now the new Xbox elites copied a lot of features directly from the PS3 , out of the 3 Nintendo came out looking the best with the Wii. Like I said at this point Mircosoft isn't swaying any potential Sony users or vice-versa , although I think that whole you have to pay Microsoft to play used games may turn people off but probably not , people will bend over I know lots of people who got another Xbox after the RROD and when that one died bought another.

We'll have to see what Microsoft does in terms of gaming with the new system , so far the PS4 seems more interesting.

[YngiweRhoads]

I just buy them all.

[cephissus]

Regardless, I don't think the console had a positive overall impact, in fact, I believe it was pretty bad.

Either way, when you consider the built in user base from the wildly successful PS2, coupled with the fact that Sony dominates Japan no matter what, it fell way short of expectations.   This generation was theirs to lose, and they lost it.

I owned both consoles, and am not a Sony hater.  Microsoft and Nintendo just beat them.

because the PS3 didn't perform like the PS2, it was a failure

microsoft stepped up and provided serious competition... sony did fine; expecting a repeat performance of the PS2 is just silly.  with the PS1 and PS2 sony took advantage of their competitors' oversights (catering to developers and optical disks), with the xbox360 microsoft did a bit of the same (by offering great online services and catering to developers).  neither in terms of profits or product quality can the PS3 be viewed as some sort of catastrophic failure -- only due to its loss of marketshare, which was pretty much inevitable unless microsoft and nintendo decided to roll over and play dead.

and you say nintendo beat them?  the wii may have outsold the ps3 and xbox, but somehow i doubt the profits were hugely higher.  without looking at any figures, i'm almost sure the software sales were abysmal.  nintendo lost the "traditional gamer" market, and even lost the so-called "casual market" of which they were so proud (hello smart phones).  the wiiu is shaping up to be an unbelievable disaster... how that piece of shit could EVER make it to production is absolutely mind-boggling.  talk about a complete loss of touch with reality.  they might have made a lot of money last generation, but in doing so they wound up in a horrible position.

[cephissus]

Like I said at this point Mircosoft isn't swaying any potential Sony users or vice-versa , although I think that whole you have to pay Microsoft to play used games may turn people off but probably not , people will bend over I know lots of people who got another Xbox after the RROD and when that one died bought another.

just look at the responses, lol

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=560761

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=561013

amongst videogame forum posters, the response to xbox one is overwhelmingly negative

same with wiiu

ps4 is lukewarm

just look at this shit:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=560535

i bet, in the end, the PS4 and xbox one (ffs i hate typing that) will split the market again, with the wiiu disappearing into oblivion, but at this point the hype is definitely NOT with MS.

[Grape Ape]

because the PS3 didn't perform like the PS2, it was a failure

Who said that's the reason?

It's a failure because Sony lost 5 billion dollars on the console, and a shit ton of market share to Microsoft, despite Microsoft only selling in 2 markets vs. Sony's 3 and Sony having a ridiculously high embedded user base.  That's a failure.

microsoft stepped up and provided serious competition... sony did fine; expecting a repeat performance of the PS2 is just silly.  with the PS1 and PS2 sony took advantage of their competitors' oversights (catering to developers and optical disks), with the xbox360 microsoft did a bit of the same (by offering great online services and catering to developers).  neither in terms of profits or product quality can the PS3 be viewed as some sort of catastrophic failure -- only due to its loss of marketshare, which was pretty much inevitable unless microsoft and nintendo decided to roll over and play dead.

Can you provide the profits over the life cycle of the PS3 to support your claim that sony did "fine".

and you say nintendo beat them?  the wii may have outsold the ps3 and xbox, but somehow i doubt the profits were hugely higher.  without looking at any figures, i'm almost sure the software sales were abysmal.  nintendo lost the "traditional gamer" market, and even lost the so-called "casual market" of which they were so proud (hello smart phones).  the wiiu is shaping up to be an unbelievable disaster... how that piece of shit could EVER make it to production is absolutely mind-boggling.  talk about a complete loss of touch with reality.  they might have made a lot of money last generation, but in doing so they wound up in a horrible position.

Why are you "sure" that Wii software sales were abysmal and doubt that profits were high for the Wii?  In other words, you're taking your guesses as fact, when they're not correct.   I've followed the console wars for most of the life cycles of these consoles.   I didn't guess at anything, I followed NPD data to see sales (not shipped), market share etc.....

Yeah, the Wii was a shitty console and a gimmick, but it was a wildly successful shitty gimmick.  The Wii U IS going to flop, but it's not because of the Wii.

[Grape Ape]

Positive impact? maybe not , bad? No. 

It's really bad.

Microsoft payed out over $1 billion dollars to fix the problems with the RROD , I don't think that's beating Sony on any level and that made Microsoft look really bad , at first they denied responsibility for failures then it got to a point of 33% of Xbox's were failing and they had to address that issue , the original failures with the Xbox was due to rush to production to beat the PS3   

This was all by design to grab market share from Sony, and it worked beautifully.  They knew the consoles would RRoD.  It obviously had minimal impact when you look at the final numbers.

We'll have to see what Microsoft does in terms of gaming with the new system , so far the PS4 seems more interesting.

All subjective and personal preference.  I wasn't overwhelmed by MS's presser today, but a ton more data will be available over the next few months.

[cephissus]

Who said that's the reason?

It's a failure because Sony lost 5 billion dollars on the console, and a shit ton of market share to Microsoft, despite Microsoft only selling in 2 markets vs. Sony's 3 and Sony having a ridiculously high embedded user base.  That's a failure.


Can you provide the profits over the life cycle of the PS3 to support your claim that sony did "fine".

can YOU?  please show me where they lost 5 billion dollars, and i'll shut up.  microsoft got the drop on sony with a 1 year head start, so much for "embedded user base"... and where did they end up?  sony is looking, by all accounts, in a pretty good position at the end of the generation, neck and neck with microsoft, and poised to pull ahead.  i don't consider that a failure.

Why are you "sure" that Wii software sales were abysmal and doubt that profits were high for the Wii?  In other words, you're taking your guesses as fact, when they're not correct.   I've followed the console wars for most of the life cycles of these consoles.   I didn't guess at anything, I followed NPD data to see sales (not shipped), market share etc.....

Yeah, the Wii was a shitty console and a gimmick, but it was a wildly successful shitty gimmick.  The Wii U IS going to flop, but it's not because of the Wii.

and what does the NPD data say about the wii software sales?  that they're shitty, right?  the wiiu is going to flop, because nintendo lucked out with their batshit insane "wii" concept, which gave them the confidence to go ahead with an even more batshit insane "wiiu" concept.

[Grape Ape]

can YOU?  please show me where they lost 5 billion dollars, and i'll shut up.

Understand I've been through this discussion over the years, and have followed the industry via online sources like NPD, through a friend who works at Microsoft, and a couple of friends who are completely obsessed with this shit.  Most of the data I quote is from memory, but a quick google shows this article.

http://www.vg247.com/2009/10/30/sony-ps-division-has-lost-4-7-billion-since-launching-ps3/

Now, granted, that's from 2010 but there's been tons more like it.  If you've followed Sony's investor relations reporting, they have continued to struggle since.  

EDIT: Found this article from Kotaku in 2013: http://kotaku.com/5973498/weapons-of-mass-disruption-3-how-and-why-consoles-will-die

According to Cousins’ report on Kotaku, Microsoft has spent some $2.996bn on Xbox 360 since it launched in 2005, while Sony has fared worse, spending $4.951 billion on PS3. Both figures are a loss, and you can see an overview of both company’s losses in Cousins’s financial table here.

Even if you feel like data mining and the numbers turn out to be different, I wouldn't change my position.  Being a leader in Market share and then getting blasted by two separate companies in that context is a disaster.

The losses between the two can't be viewed without context.  This guys sums it up best about Microsoft's losses relative to Sony's.  It's an old article from 1UP that says Sony could lose more on the PS3 than they made on the PS2.

He (and DFC) predict Sony will extend this generation even longer than the PS2's because of this (making Sony's claims of 10-year life cycle a real possibility). Of course, the Xbox 360, especially considering its $1 billion in replacement costs for faulty hardware, has likely cost Microsoft just as much, if not more. But Microsoft's entire foray into the videogame business has been a costly multi-billion dollar investment (Microsoft lost $4 billion on its original Xbox alone), whereas Sony's games division has only recently been forced to spend so heavily to hold on to its status in the games market (and to force the adoption of an HD media standard).

microsoft got the drop on sony with a 1 year head start, so much for "embedded user base"... and where did they end up?  sony is looking, by all accounts, in a pretty good position at the end of the generation, neck and neck with microsoft, and poised to pull ahead.  i don't consider that a failure.

Microsoft got the drop BECAUSE of the embedded user base, and the strategy worked brilliantly.  How are they poised to pull ahead?  Based on their press conferences?

and what does the NPD data say about the wii software sales?  that they're shitty, right?  the wiiu is going to flop, because nintendo lucked out with their batshit insane "wii" concept, which gave them the confidence to go ahead with an even more batshit insane "wiiu" concept.

No sense in arguing the Wii, since we generally agree.  But, to your own point, if a console had shitty software sales, why would it give Nintendo the "confidence" to go with even shittier Wii U?

[cephissus]

Understand I've been through this discussion over the years, and have followed the industry via online sources like NPD, through a friend who works at Microsoft, and a couple of friends who are completely obsessed with this shit.  Most of the data I quote is from memory, but a quick google shows this article.

http://www.vg247.com/2009/10/30/sony-ps-division-has-lost-4-7-billion-since-launching-ps3/

Now, granted, that's from 2010 but there's been tons more like it.  If you've followed Sony's investor relations reporting, they have continued to struggle since.  

EDIT: Found this article from Kotaku in 2013: http://kotaku.com/5973498/weapons-of-mass-disruption-3-how-and-why-consoles-will-die

Even if you feel like data mining and the numbers turn out to be different, I wouldn't change my position.  Being a leader in Market share and then getting blasted by two separate companies in that context is a disaster.

The losses between the two can't be viewed without context.  This guys sums it up best about Microsoft's losses relative to Sony's.  It's an old article from 1UP that says Sony could lose more on the PS3 than they made on the PS2.

in other words: "not really."

Microsoft got the drop BECAUSE of the embedded user base, and the strategy worked brilliantly.  How are they poised to pull ahead?  Based on their press conferences?

yes.  they may pull ahead, or they may not, and of course we'll learn a lot more very soon, but at this point it's easy to see where the prevailing winds are blowing.

No sense in arguing the Wii, since we generally agree.  But, to your own point, if a console had shitty software sales, why would it give Nintendo the "confidence" to go with even shittier Wii U?

i don't know: first party software sold decently, they didn't give a shit, they're clearly insane?  who knows... for the better part of the past decade, the company has completely lost touch with reality, in no small part due to the fluke success of the wii/ds.

[The True Adonis]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



    Facebook3

Microsoft clarifies Xbox One used game stance
May 21, 2013 4:47PM PDT
Eddie Makuch
By Eddie Makuch, News Editor

Xbox maker acknowledges "confusion" exists around secondhand games for next-gen platform, doesn't deny fee will be required to play secondhand titles.

Microsoft has clarified its stance on used games as it relates to the Xbox One, the company's next-generation platform.

Writing on his blog, Microsoft director of Xbox Live programming Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb acknowledged that some "confusion" over used games on the next-gen platform has arisen today.

"We know there is some confusion around used games on Xbox One and wanted to provide a bit of clarification on exactly what we've confirmed today," Hryb said. "While there have been many potential scenarios discussed, today we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail."

"Beyond that, we have not confirmed any specific scenarios."

Earlier today, a Wired report claimed the Xbox One would require secondhand users pay a fee to play used games. Hryb did not deny this in his statement today, saying only that there will be no fee for those who play their games at a friend's house, provided they sign in to their profile.

"Another piece of clarification around playing games at a friend's house--should you choose to play your game at your friend's house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile," he said.

[The True Adonis]

Microsoft is taking a HELL of a BEATING online right now. LOLOLOL  Well Deserved I might add.

[deadpan]

wow, yet another blatant money grab from the xbox team. such a shock coming from the system that introduced payable DLC. 

[BIG ACH]

My favorite part was, "And with the new AI, the fish swim away when you move towards them."

Yes, that got a good chuckle out of  me :-)

[Earl1972]

Yeah - trust the company that made that very mistake last gen by thinking people wanted a $600 blu ray player that also played video games.

the same company with far better exclusive games and didn't red ring

sony "can't be trusted" to make a good gaming console yet they somehow built the best selling console ever in the ps2, and the ps3 has only sold 3 million less than the 360 despite coming out a year later and the initial launch price

you are a fan boy

E

[deadpan]

xbox reveal in a nutshell:

[G_Thang]

what's the point of this hardware, if EA Sports controls the sports titles and just develops eye candy engine.  Ignite is bullshit.   

[Grape Ape]

the same company with far better exclusive games and didn't red ring

sony "can't be trusted" to make a good gaming console yet they somehow built the best selling console ever in the ps2, and the ps3 has only sold 3 million less than the 360 despite coming out a year later and the initial launch price

you are a fan boy

E

Here you go again.

Far better exclusives = subjective.  RRod = known and expected as explained to you on multiple occasions.   Sold the same amount of units despite having the advantage of selling in 3 over 2, and owning the market on the previous generations, as explained to you again on many occasions.

Not a fanboy.  I loved the PS2, owned a 3, and will get a 4, as explained to  you on many occasions.

You're just going to believe what you want.  For some reason, this stuff means a lot to you.

[Grape Ape]

in other words: "not really."

So you're refuting the links?

[Earl1972]

Here you go again.

Far better exclusives = subjective.  RRod = known and expected as explained to you on multiple occasions.   Sold the same amount of units despite having the advantage of selling in 3 over 2, and owning the market on the previous generations, as explained to you again on many occasions.

Not a fanboy.  I loved the PS2, owned a 3, and will get a 4, as explained to  you on many occasions.

You're just going to believe what you want.  For some reason, this stuff means a lot to you.

"subjective" to you because apparently you only played god of war 3 and uncharted and then traded it in, list the best exclusives for best consoles, sony has a much deeper rosterand the only people that argue it's subjective are people that haven't even played them, sony has more amazing exclusives coming in the last of us and beyond 2 souls

you say sony can't be trusted yet you trust a company that released broken consoles?

i have both consoles at this point and i'm far from a fan boy, you on the other hand only have one and you take shots at ps3 every chance you get

E

[The True Adonis]

AHAHYAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHH AAHAHAHHAHA

Everything I said about yesterday is true.  I summed it up accurately.