Author Topic: Chiropractors more harm than good?  (Read 43451 times)

Voice of Doom

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3631
  • Everything is under control.
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2013, 09:08:51 AM »
Pseudoscience bullshit with roots in new age quackery. Some are better than others but most do not discuss the new age/occult origin of chiropractic "medicine".   Get a massage from a licensed massage therapist.  

so.....it's a new age cult that's been practiced for 2000 years?

Slik

  • Competitors
  • Getbig IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3593
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2013, 09:16:21 AM »
You wouldn't listen to students who have been told by their professors NOT to do exactly what he did to me since the day they started university?  This man's fucking boyfriend even came up to me afterwards and said "you ok?  he did that on purpose".  WTF?  

This is what happened.  I was laying on my back on the table, he was at the end near my feet.  (I was still wearing shoes), he picked up both feet and pressed them together so my feet and ankles were touching.  He had one hand on the top (12 oclock position) and the other hand at the bottom on my heels (6 oclock position) Then he started moving them upward to the left, downwards to center, upwards to the right.  Sort of a gentle swaying "V" shape movement.  He said that it was designed to see how the flexibility of my hips were and some other reason (I forgot what he was observing).  He did this for a couple of minutes and when I was relaxed he suddenly just brought them to the center and WRENCHED my legs around like he was turning a huge steering wheel.  My toes were at the 9 oclock position and my heels at 3 oclock position,..

Seriously when a junior student tells you "they told us to never ever do that to a patient" what do you think he was doing?


i take it back. He performed the lost shaolin toes at 9 heel at 3 O'clock position. Although when originated it was called toes at 3 heels at 9 O' Sundial position.

U r destined to walk as a broken abacus for the remainder of ur life.

Krankenstein

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11310
  • quit·ter : a person can't finish a task
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2013, 09:33:31 AM »
Also, when I lived in Atlanta I got an adjustment by Dr Schmidt.  The Prez of Life University the noted chiro college in Marietta that is...   he gave me an adjustment that everyone who saw it said he was deliberately trying to hurt me.  The freaking Prez.  Two students and his own gay boyfriend took me aside afterwards and said that he should not have performed that and it looked as though he was trying to hurt me on purpose.  

I have only seen another a couple times after that and that was before I found the ART specialist.

No clue in the world whatthe hell he was trying to do.  I have heard MANY stories from patients.  EVERY...and I mean EVERY patient I adjust for the first time I explain what I will be doing.  I don't care if you have been going to one for many years.  Its a habit and I feel better knowing I am explaining everything.  Someone might not.  One patient told me that with a side posture adjustment his old chiro (female) would literally yank his pants downto contact the "appropriate" segment of the sacrum.  ((shaking head))

Slik

  • Competitors
  • Getbig IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3593
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2013, 09:41:25 AM »
No clue in the world whatthe hell he was trying to do.  I have heard MANY stories from patients.  EVERY...and I mean EVERY patient I adjust for the first time I explain what I will be doing.  I don't care if you have been going to one for many years.  Its a habit and I feel better knowing I am explaining everything.  Someone might not.  One patient told me that with a side posture adjustment his old chiro (female) would literally yank his pants downto contact the "appropriate" segment of the sacrum.  ((shaking head))
yeah. Srsly. It doesn't even sound remotely familiar. I have no idea. lurkernomore, was there a reason he would be trying to hurt u?  Still not convinced he was tho but how would I know I wasn't there. Maybe he was. The odd thing is if patients said they learned to never perform this move it must be a move taught at one time or at least known of?

no one

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11917
  • have i hurt your feelings?
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2013, 10:54:48 AM »


chiropractic has changed my life for the better 100 fold.
b

honest

  • Competitors
  • Getbig IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3200
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2013, 11:45:26 AM »
As someone who has had to go through disc replacement with similar injury to Ronnie and Jay, with atrophy from disc compression, I dont rate them, but maybe it was just my chiro, he completely missed my diagnosis and as a result I have permanent nerve damage, my advice to you or any chiropractor get diagnosed or diagnose someone properly, and that requires MRI, no one can be sure what your injuries are from and a rub down or adjustment is just guessing use technology be thorough, rubbing down, cracking shit and adjustments is fine if you dont have more serious issues, they dont make any money sending you off to MRI, they would rather crack and rub your back a few times than diagnose you. Go to a GP then an orthopedic, if you want an overpriced massage go somewhere else is all I'm saying.

Disgusted

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13610
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2013, 12:11:03 PM »
Ever heard of a PET scan? Positron Emission Tomography. Doctors attach radioactive tracers to a glucose (sugar) molecule and inject the patient. Then they use a scan image to see where the glucose is being metabolized the fastest....they know cancer thrives on sugar, so it gives the exact location of the cancer cells. So, that leads us to conclude....WHY THE FUCK AREN'T MORE ONCOLOGISTS STRESSING THE IMPORTANCE OF MINIMIZNG SUGAR AND CARBOHYDRATE CONSUMPTION??? .

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!  But not one Dr will tell you that sugar is harmful. They WILL tell you to eat a low cut diet the day before your PET scan, but they don't bother to tell you why. FUCKING IDIOTS!!

OneMoreRep

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13987
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2013, 12:23:35 PM »
WHY THE FUCK AREN'T MORE ONCOLOGISTS STRESSING THE IMPORTANCE OF MINIMIZNG SUGAR AND CARBOHYDRATE CONSUMPTION??? .

Agreed!

A while back, I was reading a book by Gary Taubes titled, "Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health". In his book, Mr. Taubes dived into the fact that  populations like that of the Eskimos have an incredibly small prevalence of cancer, diabetes and heart disease due to their native diet. Their diets are composed of high protein, fats (good fats) and a very negligible amount of carbs. He spoke of example whereby a solid group of Eskimos (>500) adopted a Western diet for a set period of time and as a result, they experienced an increased in the rate of diseases like that of cancer, diabetes and heart disease, whereas the other Eskimos (who stayed with their native diets) continued to be healthy. Ultimately, his studies found that processed carbohydrates are greatly linked to the risk of developing cancer.

This is the book for those interested in a good read:



"1"

Big Chiro Flex

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10413
  • FREE FOOZLE
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2013, 12:32:50 PM »
Agreed!

A while back, I was reading a book by Gary Taubes titled, "Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health". In his book, Mr. Taubes dived into the fact that  populations like that of the Eskimos have an incredibly small prevalence of cancer, diabetes and heart disease due to their native diet. Their diets are composed of high protein, fats (good fats) and a very negligible amount of carbs. He spoke of example whereby a solid group of Eskimos (>500) adopted a Western diet for a set period of time and as a result, they experienced an increased in the rate of diseases like that of cancer, diabetes and heart disease, whereas the other Eskimos (who stayed with their native diets) continued to be healthy. Ultimately, his studies found that processed carbohydrates are greatly linked to risk of developing cancer.

This is the book for those interested in a good read:



"1"

Great stuff brother....This will be my next purchase. I'd also recommend this book as well. Very short and easy read. I saw Dr. Majors speak at an event and tell his story. The book details his  entire process dealing with brain cancer,  from diagnosis to treatment to complete remission of his cancer. Amazing stuff. Will make you think differently about the way we approach traditional cancer treatment.


buffdnet

  • Time Out
  • Getbig III
  • *
  • Posts: 840
  • fuck the pope
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2013, 12:54:34 PM »
"How much money has gone into cancer research?  Are we even one step closer to doing anything to stop people like us from losing the people so close to us?  I personally don't see it."

there is much being done specially for people like me
who may face liver cancer due to hepc and the inability
to take the current drug regiment.  there are new
drug trials constantly with each making progress.

chiro and god have the exact same cure rate for diseases.  zero


Krankenstein

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11310
  • quit·ter : a person can't finish a task
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2013, 02:21:40 PM »
As someone who has had to go through disc replacement with similar injury to Ronnie and Jay, with atrophy from disc compression, I dont rate them, but maybe it was just my chiro, he completely missed my diagnosis and as a result I have permanent nerve damage, my advice to you or any chiropractor get diagnosed or diagnose someone properly, and that requires MRI, no one can be sure what your injuries are from and a rub down or adjustment is just guessing use technology be thorough, rubbing down, cracking shit and adjustments is fine if you dont have more serious issues, they dont make any money sending you off to MRI, they would rather crack and rub your back a few times than diagnose you. Go to a GP then an orthopedic, if you want an overpriced massage go somewhere else is all I'm saying.

Without sounding like a broken record, there are good Drs and bad ones.  Completely missing something is not foreign to an MD.  No matter what the profession.  An MRI is not the be-all, end-all diagnostic tool.  If it was, there wouldn't be a need for pre authorization.  In case you aren't aware, some insurance companies require a healthcare professional to treat a person for a few visits before an MRI is granted.  Are you comfortable with MD's that will look at someone for maybe 5 mins and then simply say "Here is a script for some pain killers and anti-inflammatories".  Is that being thorough?  Not really.  The term 'serious issues' is kind of relative, don't you think?  I order about 3 - 5 MRI's a month.  You are right, I don't make money off them.  Why should I care?  Not all MD's have them in their offices either.  They don't make money on the MRI.  Whats your point with that?  I take some real offense to you claiming that 'they only want to crack you rather than diagnose you'.  Have you ever seen any of your diagnosis codes from the MD?  Probably not.  

Buffd - so, the allopathic industry has a 100% cure rate?  I have never said not to take drugs.  Show me someone who has been "cured" of rhematoid arthirtis.  Great track record.

Man of Steel

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19388
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2013, 02:26:13 PM »
Every person I've ever known (with the exception of 1) that have visited a chiropractor for adjustments/manipulations have ended up far worse off then before they visited......some have never recovered from the visit....permanent damage done.

Heywood

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1396
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2013, 02:38:40 PM »
I'm an absolute believer in physical therapy and massage therapy, especially for the elderly who need to keep moving.

That said, I have no understanding how Chiropractics can work.  My own theory is that many Chiroprators are actually excellent physical therapists, and therefore what they do does, in fact, work. 

I don't get the "adjusting" your spine, etc.  How can you move herniated disks, cartledge, etc.?  And if you did, you'd most likely injure the person.

Big Chiro Flex

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10413
  • FREE FOOZLE
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2013, 02:47:08 PM »
I'm an absolute believer in physical therapy and massage therapy, especially for the elderly who need to keep moving.

That said, I have no understanding how Chiropractics can work.  My own theory is that many Chiroprators are actually excellent physical therapists, and therefore what they do does, in fact, work.  

I don't get the "adjusting" your spine, etc.  How can you move herniated disks, cartledge, etc.?  And if you did, you'd most likely injure the person.


Joints in the body misalign due to a variety of stresses. Chiropractors aim to specifically address each misalignment and return the joint to its proper juxtaposition.

Regarding discs: I don't believe there are any chiropractic techniques specific to "adjusting" discs. But, a subluxated vertebral segment can exacerbate an already herniated disc. A lot of DC's do use some other techniques such as Mackenzie technique which is a PT therapy to treat disc issues, with great success. Lumbar Flexion-Distraction is also phenomenal for discs. As are any traction units that are properly administered.

Specific, safe adjustments will definitely help aid the healing process of a disc injury. But disc issues are a bitch and require several methods of treatment.


OneMoreRep

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13987
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2013, 03:08:16 PM »
"How much money has gone into cancer research?  Are we even one step closer to doing anything to stop people like us from losing the people so close to us?  I personally don't see it."

there is much being done specially for people like me
who may face liver cancer due to hepc and the inability
to take the current drug regiment.  there are new
drug trials constantly with each making progress.


chiro and god have the exact same cure rate for diseases.  zero

I know this is slightly off track from the debate regarding chiropractors doing more harm than good, but I wanted to chime in with something regarding your condition.

Has your team of Hepatologists considered using Sofosbuvir? Let me know, as I recently read a piece of work surrounding its use and the high cure rate (greater than 78%) achieved for patients with Hepatitis C.

I've also heard of patients that have managed to get cured of Hepatitis C completely. Their approach for complete cure involved the use of both antiviral drugs and a living-donor liver transplant (This approach produced an 80% cure rate).

What they did was to take patients with both advanced Hepatitis C and a Cirrhotic liver and consequently placed them on a 6-8 month course of both Interferon and Ribavirin (in a step-up approach), slowly increasing their dosages from month to month. Once they reached an undetectable Hepatitis C viral load in their blood for at least 12 weeks, they then went ahead and performed a living donor liver transplant. Essentially, what occurred is that these patients were both cured of Hepatitis C and cured of their cirrhotic liver due to the presence of a newly transplanted liver.

For more information on this study and the results seen in over 295 patients, take a look at this NIH study found in PubMed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22151078

If you need further information, let me know and I can get you in contact with a couple of the best Hepatologists in NYC.

"1"

King Shizzo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 34189
  • Ron crowned me King because I always deliver.
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2013, 03:12:55 PM »

No offence, but that isn't saying much for the rest of the medical field.

Krankenstein

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11310
  • quit·ter : a person can't finish a task
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2013, 03:39:09 PM »
Every person I've ever known (with the exception of 1) that have visited a chiropractor for adjustments/manipulations have ended up far worse off then before they visited......some have never recovered from the visit....permanent damage done.

Ok  ::)

I'm an absolute believer in physical therapy and massage therapy, especially for the elderly who need to keep moving.

That said, I have no understanding how Chiropractics can work.  My own theory is that many Chiroprators are actually excellent physical therapists, and therefore what they do does, in fact, work. 

I don't get the "adjusting" your spine, etc.  How can you move herniated disks, cartledge, etc.?  And if you did, you'd most likely injure the person.


You aren't necessarily moving the disc.  The discs are kept healthy through a process called imbibition.  Compressive along with flexion/extension forces cause this.  When the spinal joints are fixated, the discs will not be able to stay healthy and thus will be more suseptible to damage from forces acting at the spinal joint that it would normally be able to sustain.  Are you aware that most people would probably NOT get to the point of a herniation if they didn't have the "it will go away" or "it's not that bad" mentality?

cephissus

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7596
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2013, 03:52:01 PM »
Cheers mate, if I ever wanted someone to accidentally cause me permament spinal cord injury, I would want it to be you.

LMAO!!!

Are you suggesting that mastering the "over-under" deadlift grip isn't exactly brain surgery, Ray?

Big Chiro Flex

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10413
  • FREE FOOZLE
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2013, 06:25:19 PM »
No offence, but that isn't saying much for the rest of the medical field.

What changes would you like to see?

Irongrip400

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21103
  • Pan Germanism, Pax Britannica
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2013, 06:59:03 PM »
I've posted about it before, but a chiropractor caused me to have a stroke. I fell out in his office from a neck manipulation. 26, and he pinched my blood flow causing me to have a stroke. Most of them are quacks I feel.  Sorry chiroflex.

Big Chiro Flex

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10413
  • FREE FOOZLE
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2013, 07:27:37 PM »
I've posted about it before, but a chiropractor caused me to have a stroke. I fell out in his office from a neck manipulation. 26, and he pinched my blood flow causing me to have a stroke. Most of them are quacks I feel.  Sorry chiroflex.

Sorry to hear that. It is extremely rare, as in your more likely to get struck by lighting, but CVA's can happen. We are trained to perform all the vertebrobasilar artery  insufficiency exams, but it's a shame if you slipped through the cracks and became part of a very small statistic. However, according to statistics, your odds were still better than stepping foot in a GP's office. (My comment should NOT read that I am ANTI-mainstream medicine....that's not my point at all.) Accidents do happen when treating patients, but it's extremely rare.


SF1900

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 48766
  • Team Hairy Chest Henda
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2013, 08:00:43 PM »
I am going to Vince Goodrum for all my medical needs and concerns.
X

Big Chiro Flex

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10413
  • FREE FOOZLE
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2013, 08:03:03 PM »
I am going to Vince Goodrum for all my medical needs and concerns.

Well that's obviously the preferred specialist if it's covered under your HMO. What we are arguing about here is: what is the 2nd best form of healthcare next to Goodrum-Care.

RadOncDoc

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 185
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2013, 08:52:54 PM »


You're a good poster! but this chart is a little misleading. My guess is it's just taking into account the first two years of med school vs. chiro school. This wouldn't take into account the 5 or 6 years of residency that an orthopod or any other specialist would do and all of additional classroom time and mentored practical experience that would come from that.

Big Chiro Flex

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10413
  • FREE FOOZLE
Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2013, 09:03:00 PM »
You're a good poster! but this chart is a little misleading. My guess is it's just taking into account the first two years of med school vs. chiro school. This wouldn't take into account the 5 or 6 years of residency that an orthopod or any other specialist would do and all of additional classroom time and mentored practical experience that would come from that.

I see what you're saying. To be fair, many DC's go on as well and pursue diplomats in other specialties as well, racking up several more hundred hours for whatever their diplomate dictates. My mentor, a DC for 33 years, has 3 diplomates, ( internal medicine, sports medicine, and impairment rating.).

 My post there was not to take anything away from fellow doctors. I was simply showing that in traditional chiropractic schools, we receive adequate training to treat patients via our methods, and we have earned fhe right to be deemed legitimate. The way I see it, we are all different spokes of the same wheel, and I have nothing but the upmost respect for you or any physician whose purpose is to help other people. Cheers