Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting

[RRKore]

LMFAO!!!!  Ha ha ha ha ha - re read what you wrote 

I'm not clear on why you want folks to think you're laughing here.  Option D seems to be saying that drawing conclusions about what type of person someone will become based on their conduct as a 17-year old is premature and, no matter what, Trayvon's indiscretions shouldn't be a death sentence anyway.

I think both points are good.  After all, George was the adult in that situation and should have been able to avoid a physical confrontation with a young man about whom he knew almost nothing.

[Dos Equis]

I'm not clear on why you want folks to think you're laughing here.  Option D seems to be saying that drawing conclusions about what type of person someone will become based on their conduct as a 17-year old is premature and, no matter what, Trayvon's indiscretions shouldn't be a death sentence anyway.

I think both points are good.  After all, George was the adult in that situation and should have been able to avoid a physical confrontation with a young man about whom he knew almost nothing.

Nobody is saying his conduct deserved a death sentence.  And it's silly to try and pick any one part of Martin's bad behavior and say that because of that conduct he "deserved to die."  That's just hyperbole designed to deflect attention away from the fact Martin was a thug who was responsible for his own death. 

No, a 17 year-old smoking weed every week doesn't deserve to be shot because he is smoking weed.  But the fact he smoked is all part of the narrative.  Same with the fact Martin was suspended from school for having burglary tools and women's jewelry and for fighting.  No, that doesn't mean he deserved to die.  What it does show is this makes it more likely that the kid was prone to start a confrontation with someone. 

Same with his fighting.  He was bragging about beating someone up and breaking their nose just weeks before he was killed.  You have to put blinders on to ignore those facts.  Does that mean he deserved to die?  Of course not.  Does it tend to show he was more likely to be the one beating the crap out of a stranger, breaking his nose, etc.?  Of course. 

What I'm not afraid to do is call things exactly as I see them.  The case was tragic, but that kid was a thug.  He is not Emmitt Till (as some compared him to).     It should be a lesson to teenaged kids to not beat up strangers. 

[Option D]

Nobody is saying his conduct deserved a death sentence.  And it's silly to try and pick any one part of Martin's bad behavior and say that because of that conduct he "deserved to die."  That's just hyperbole designed to deflect attention away from the fact Martin was a thug who was responsible for his own death. 

No, a 17 year-old smoking weed every week doesn't deserve to be shot because he is smoking weed.  But the fact he smoked is all part of the narrative.  Same with the fact Martin was suspended from school for having burglary tools and women's jewelry and for fighting.  No, that doesn't mean he deserved to die.  What it does show is this makes it more likely that the kid was prone to start a confrontation with someone. 

Same with his fighting.  He was bragging about beating someone up and breaking their nose just weeks before he was killed.  You have to put blinders on to ignore those facts.  Does that mean he deserved to die?  Of course not.  Does it tend to show he was more likely to be the one beating the crap out of a stranger, breaking his nose, etc.?  Of course. 

What I'm not afraid to do is call things exactly as I see them.  The case was tragic, but that kid was a thug.  He is not Emmitt Till (as some compared him to).     It should be a lesson to teenaged kids to not beat up strangers. 

You keep saying "beating up a stranger" but my rub is how he encountered the ARMED stranger...How they crossed paths and under what circumstances did they cross. I cant run up on mike tyson start a fight get my ass kicked and then shoot him and say "self defense"
To me thats the problem not black and white.

[Dos Equis]

You keep saying "beating up a stranger" but my rub is how he encountered the ARMED stranger...How they crossed paths and under what circumstances did they cross. I cant run up on mike tyson start a fight get my ass kicked and then shoot him and say "self defense"
To me thats the problem not black and white.

If you look at all of the facts, including the background of both men, warts and all, the reasonable conclusion is Martin started the fight by false cracking Zimmerman. 

Zimmerman wasn't strong or skilled enough to start a fight.  The owner of the gym where Zimmerman trained said that even after a year, Zimmerman was too soft and too unskilled to put in the ring to spar with anyone.  No way that marshmallow was going to start a fight. 

Martin, on the other hand, was a punk.  You should look at the text messages that didn't get admitted into evidence.  He was talking about beating up someone the same way he beat up Zimmerman. 

Do you honestly believe that kid didn't start a physical confrontation with Zimmerman? 

[Option D]

If you look at all of the facts, including the background of both men, warts and all, the reasonable conclusion is Martin started the fight by false cracking Zimmerman. 

Zimmerman wasn't strong or skilled enough to start a fight.  The owner of the gym where Zimmerman trained said that even after a year, Zimmerman was too soft and too unskilled to put in the ring to spar with anyone.  No way that marshmallow was going to start a fight. 

Martin, on the other hand, was a punk.  You should look at the text messages that didn't get admitted into evidence.  He was talking about beating up someone the same way he beat up Zimmerman. 

Do you honestly believe that kid didn't start a physical confrontation with Zimmerman? 

I do think when you have a gun, that evens the playing field and provides steel courage.

[Dos Equis]

I do think when you have a gun, that evens the playing field and provides steel courage.

Wait.  So you think Zimmerman, knowing he couldn't fight and was a limp noodle, started a fight, then started yelling for help, then shot Martin only after he started getting his butt kicked?  And he did this because he knew he had a gun? 

That really doesn't make sense.  Why not just pull the gun and point it at the dude at the jump, if the gun gave him "steel courage"? 

[Option D]

Wait.  So you think Zimmerman, knowing he couldn't fight and was a limp noodle, started a fight, then started yelling for help, then shot Martin only after he started getting his butt kicked?  And he did this because he knew he had a gun? 

That really doesn't make sense.  Why not just pull the gun and point it at the dude at the jump, if the gun gave him "steel courage"? 

I wonder how their paths crossed...Trayvon was just in the mood to beat up random people and just happened to run up on zimmerman?
Im just not sure

[Dos Equis]

I wonder how their paths crossed...Trayvon was just in the mood to beat up random people and just happened to run up on zimmerman?
Im just not sure

Zimmerman thought the kid looked suspicious because he was sort of loitering and didn't look familiar.  And after Martin was shot, none of the neighbors could identify him, so the fact he thought Martin looked out of place was correct.    

No question Zimmerman was following him at some point.  Martin didn't like that.  That's why instead of running home, he confronted Zimmerman.  If you look at the distance to where Martin started running and his dad's house, it was like running a 40.  He could have run back and forth to that point about ten times. He didn't run home.  If he had, he'd still be alive.  

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who started the confrontation.  You don't get to beat the crap out of someone, breaking their nose, slamming their head on the ground, without allowing the person getting pummeled to defend themselves by any means necessary.  That's what self defense allowed Zimmerman to do.  

And I'm sure you've been hit in the nose.  You know exactly what that does to your eyes.  I got hit once through my face mask and ran straight to the sidelines after the play, for one play, because I couldn't see.  Watery eyes.  Wore a shield after that.  But if Zimmerman had the normal reaction to being punched in the nose, he is on his back, getting pummeled, and cannot see.  

He was also yelling for help, saw the neighbor look at him, then go back in the house.  That's when he shot the kid.

What else would you expect him to do in that situation?  Get beaten into unconsciousness or death?  

[Jack T. Cross]

(Zimmerman) saw the neighbor look at him, then go back in the house.  That's when he shot the kid.

Are you aware as to whether the neighbor informed them that he was calling 911?

[Dos Equis]

Are you aware as to whether the neighbor informed them that he was calling 911?

lol.  Seriously?  Not to get semantical, but you mean yelled it?  I don't recall the guy's exact testimony, but I don't remember him saying he told them he was calling 911. 

Doesn't really matter.  Zimmerman was getting pounded.  He saw the neighbor go back in the house.  One of the cops who testified said Zimmerman said on the way to the police station that he was yelling for help and no one would help him. 

[Jack T. Cross]

lol.  Seriously?  Not to get semantical, but you mean yelled it?  I don't recall the guy's exact testimony, but I don't remember him saying he told them he was calling 911. 

Doesn't really matter.  Zimmerman was getting pounded.  He saw the neighbor go back in the house.  One of the cops who testified said Zimmerman said on the way to the police station that he was yelling for help and no one would help him. 

Yes, Beach Bum. If he intended to communicate this to them, as he says he did, I would have faith that he'd know how to use his voice do that.

Will you join me on the other Zimmerman thread?

[Dos Equis]

Yes, Beach Bum. If he intended to communicate this to them, as he says he did, I would have faith that he'd know how to use his voice do that.

Will you join me on the other Zimmerman thread?

Don't remember what he said about whether he told them he was calling 911. 

Depends.  If you post something I feel like responding to, then yes. 

[Jack T. Cross]

Don't remember what he said about whether he told them he was calling 911. 

Depends.  If you post something I feel like responding to, then yes. 

Are you able to look at his testimony? Or would you prefer that I post a quote, or what?

[Jack T. Cross]

Quickly, from NY Times:

Mr. Good said he asked, “What’s going on?”

“No one answered,” he said. “At some point I said, ‘Cut it out’ and ‘I’m calling 911,’ when I thought it was getting really serious.”

[Jack T. Cross]

I'll tell you this: I've looked at this situation quite a bit in the recent past, and am more convinced than ever it was a struggle caused by the gun.

I also say that Zimmerman's story has quite a few BIG problems with it.

[Dos Equis]

Quickly, from NY Times:

Ok.  What do you think this proves? 

[Jack T. Cross]

Ok.  What do you think this proves? 

Do you think it may have been a good reason for Martin to attempt to flee, in order to avoid the consequences of beating someone?

[Dos Equis]

Do you think it may have been a good reason for Martin to attempt to flee, in order to avoid the consequences of beating someone?

Not really.  Especially if he didn't hear the guy.  He was too busy kicking the crap out of Zimmerman. 

[Jack T. Cross]

Not really.  Especially if he didn't hear the guy.  He was too busy kicking the crap out of Zimmerman. 

You think he was "too busy" to hear, BB?

[Dos Equis]

You think he was "too busy" to hear, BB?

Yep.  Busy beating the man MMA style.  The first neighbor on the scene after the shooting said Zimmerman looked like he had just gotten his butt beat.   

[Jack T. Cross]

Yep.  Busy beating the man MMA style.  The first neighbor on the scene after the shooting said Zimmerman looked like he had just gotten his butt beat.    

Do you believe Zimmerman, when he states that Martin declared he would kill him?

[Dos Equis]

Do you believe Zimmerman, when he states that Martin declared he would kill him?

Yeah, but it doesn't matter if Martin said that or not.  The evidence showed Martin was kicking his butt.  That's what the jury believed.  That horse is dead already. 

[Jack T. Cross]

Yeah, but it doesn't matter if Martin said that or not.  The evidence showed Martin was kicking his butt.  That's what the jury believed.  That horse is dead already.  

...and you'd say he was unconcerned with being caught, right?

[Archer77]

All irrelevant. 

[tonymctones]

I wonder how their paths crossed...Trayvon was just in the mood to beat up random people and just happened to run up on zimmerman?
Im just not sure

what does it matter, what if zimmerman was just a guy walking at night and happend to be behind trayvon.

Does that justify trayvon starting a physical confrontation?

You continue to deflect the outright stupidity that trayvon showed and continue to only concentrate on zimmerman.

THEY WERE BOTH IDIOTS!!!