does the npc/ifbb drug test for steroids/ are oral steroids a must to compete

[Mad-scientist]

I am curious if the npc and ifbb test for steroids. If so how do body builders get away with using steroids before a competition. I assume that it would be oral steroids they use since they leave your system the quickest making it possible to pass a drug test. I have heard though that the metabolites of all steroids even orals stay in your blood for very long and that it would show up on a drug test even after a month. My real question I would like answered though is it possible to compete in the npc or ifbb without using oral steroids. I tend to get pains around my liver and elevated liver enzymes with even light cycles of oral steroids. So it would be much appreciated to know if they test for steroids. And if they do if injectable water solutions or fast acting solutions such as primobolan ace or prop or masteron ace or prop could be used instead of oral steroids. Basically any steroid that is not methylated or liver toxic. This has all been on my mind for a very long time maybe you guys can help me figure this out. I know some people on here compete.

[whitewidow]

go to the gossip and opinion sectioin and go to page 3 and half way down there is a video(Interview) on what drugs bostin lloyd used just to win the 2013 NPC Contra Costra.I about threw-up when I listened to this jackass talk about his cycleThat was just a NPC amateur show with probably no prize $ just publicity,think about what the top guys use, same shit if not more).I am not sure if this question is a joke but if you are serious you should persue something else besides Bodybuilding if you are over 18 and can't answer this question on your own. 

[OTHstrong]

Of course they don't test, do you think they would have any bodybuilders left if they did?, lol,..

[Mad-scientist]

The reason im asking is because I went on the npc website and it says they drug test. I know a lot about body building and steroids. Ive looked all over the internet and in a lot of forums and they make it sound like they test the winners. And test people in the contest randomly. And than other people say they don't test at all. I just wanted to ask the people here because it seems like there are more people who compete on this web site. I don't know any one who competes. And I looked on the internet and the information contradicted itself that I read. So I don't think it makes me a idiot to double check with some knowledgeable people on the forum. It would make me a idiot if I wasted 4 grand getting ready for a contest and it turned out to be drug tested. Couldn't you see how if I read they drug test on the npc website how that could be misleading? I appreciate you telling me where to see that video though. Honestly I find it kind of fucked up you would say I should get a new hobby just because im trying to get confirmation about how the contests work. Like I said theres lots of contradicting information about the subject and I did research it before just posting the question. I wasn't sure if people had to use fast acting substances for it to leave their body in time or how it worked since they said they drug tested. I just wanted a final say about it from some knowledgeable people. Ive read a lot of your posts white widow and your smart and I have a lot of respect for you im not trying to be confrontational.

[OTHstrong]

OK too me that sounded so funny but I see you are being serious and if you want answers I guess you have to ask so I won't mock the question cause if you don't know then you don't know. So I will explain to you how it works

There is one pro federation called the IFBB

to get to the IFBB pro there are federation all over the world that will get you to the IFbb pro level, one of these is the NPC federation.

The NPC gives competitors 2 options; 1 is a stream of competitions that are drug tested, these are called ''natural shows''. The second option it gives you is competitive shows that are not drug tested.

so basically the NPC has 2 routes, a drug tested route and a non drug tested route.

The show will either be listed as a ''natural show'' or a ''regular show'' so as long as you compete in a regular show you will not be drug tested.

Now for political reasons they say in ''small print'' that they can call for testing even in the regular stream but this has only happened  ''NEVER'' so you have nothing to fear.


Now only the regular stream yields ifbb pro cards, HTH

[Mad-scientist]

lol thank you man I appreciate it.... Im just paranoid and had to get a straight answer.... I understand it sounds funny every body knows body builders are on every performance enhancing drug available. I was just getting confused because in the 90's they drug tested for a few shows and it made me think that they might still do that. Ha ha ha well at least I know the answer now. Lol its confusing if you don't know any one who competes and you just read that they drug test.

[OTHstrong]

lol thank you man I appreciate it.... Im just paranoid and had to get a straight answer.... I understand it sounds funny every body knows body builders are on every performance enhancing drug available. I was just getting confused because in the 90's they drug tested for a few shows and it made me think that they might still do that. Ha ha ha well at least I know the answer now. Lol its confusing if you don't know any one who competes and you just read that they drug test.

you were confused because you didn't`t know the NPC had 2 different streams, one for naturals and one for regulars.

So when you heard people talking in other forums of testing in the npc, these guy were discussing natural shows.

Now the IFBB; well They tested one year only cause Ben Weider was pushing for Olympic recognition for bodybuilders and it didn't`t work so they squashed it.

then again they tested for diuretics another year, not steroids, just diuretics cause people were callapsing on stage. Then MOMO ended up dying from diuretics. Other then that, they have not tested since.

[whitewidow]

The reason im asking is because I went on the npc website and it says they drug test. I know a lot about body building and steroids. Ive looked all over the internet and in a lot of forums and they make it sound like they test the winners. And test people in the contest randomly. And than other people say they don't test at all. I just wanted to ask the people here because it seems like there are more people who compete on this web site. I don't know any one who competes. And I looked on the internet and the information contradicted itself that I read. So I don't think it makes me a idiot to double check with some knowledgeable people on the forum. It would make me a idiot if I wasted 4 grand getting ready for a contest and it turned out to be drug tested. Couldn't you see how if I read they drug test on the npc website how that could be misleading? I appreciate you telling me where to see that video though. Honestly I find it kind of fucked up you would say I should get a new hobby just because im trying to get confirmation about how the contests work. Like I said theres lots of contradicting information about the subject and I did research it before just posting the question. I wasn't sure if people had to use fast acting substances for it to leave their body in time or how it worked since they said they drug tested. I just wanted a final say about it from some knowledgeable people. Ive read a lot of your posts white widow and your smart and I have a lot of respect for you im not trying to be confrontational.

No hard feelings and If you were unsure then yes def ask especially if you wanna drop 4 grand on a cycle. Onetimehard is correct they do have natural npc drug tested shows but a bodybuilder with the right connections to designer steroids can beat those drug tests. How many of those guys are really natural,or have been for there whole lives? Like I said there are alot of designer drugs used in those natural NPC contests.

I would really take some time and think about chasing a pro card. It is not easy work! When I was using alot of steroids I thought about it myself and I realized the drug usage was just not worth my health! Plus they just do not pay bodybuilders shit for $! Bodybuilding is kind of a fucked up sport if you think about it. If you are serious then you have to make that your job! You have to be eating correctly wich is not cheap. You have to bust your ass in the gym and run these hectic cycles and work with nutritionist and bodybuilding gurus who might help you for free if they like you. If not that is big $. When I was deep into  steroid usage turned my into a insomniac and I got real OCD/perfectionist type. I stayed away from all of my friends because all they do is party and drink. I am just warning you if you are probably chasing the wrong dream. I probably would not say that if they would actually put up some better prize money! It is just so expensive to mold yourself into a competitive bodybuilder. Look at the top prizes at some of the IFBB shows it is all shit for money unless you can win the Olympia or the Arnold and can get a sweet sponsor wich is damn near impossible. I make more then most all pro bodybuilders and do not have to almost kill myself to do it. It is nice to be all jacked up and draw alot of attention and get alot of women starring you down or asking to feel you up and you don't need to use those crazy cycles to get some great benefits of looking superior to most guys. It's your life though bro,if that is what your heart wants go for it! but I would def weigh the risks to rewards!

[whitewidow]

you were confused because you didn't`t know the NPC had 2 different streams, one for naturals and one for regulars.

So when you heard people talking in other forums of testing in the npc, these guy were discussing natural shows.

Now the IFBB; well They tested one year only cause Ben Weider was pushing for Olympic recognition for bodybuilders and it didn't`t work so they squashed it.

then again they tested for diuretics another year, not steroids, just diuretics cause people were callapsing on stage. Then MOMO ended up dying from diuretics. Other then that, they have not tested since.

I am pretty sure shawn Ray got fucked out of a show for using diuretics. That was in the 90's as well. what happened to MOMO B was a tragedy but that is what these guys due to come in super ripped and dry of water,dangerous shit! I am not a advocate of diuretic usage unless very limited and monitored. So many Bodybuilders have nearly died from using diuretics. Bodybuilders look good on-stage but really most of them feel like shit and can't hold a pose for 3-4 seconds without gasing out,then they go backstage and throw-up or need oxygen. Dangerous sport! I have much love for every Pro bodybuilder! crazy sport with not alot of benefits but man those guys have some balls to take their physiques to that level(NOT EASY). Bodybuilding  in my opinion is the most hardcores sport out there and these guys just do not get any respect or the pay they deserve. basketball players and baseball players have it much easier and actually make some real cash.

[BigRo]

So many are under the delusion that a pro card is a magic pass to a much better existence, if anything it is the opposite. Unless one has steller genetics, godly will power AND the capacity to put up with schmoes, annoying 'fans' with Iphones and alot of ass kissing it is better to finish that dream but the whole ethos these days is to believe in your dreams and fuck the haters so no one listens.

[Psychopath]

So many are under the delusion that a pro card is a magic pass to a much better existence, if anything it is the opposite. Unless one has steller genetics, godly will power AND the capacity to put up with schmoes, annoying 'fans' with Iphones and alot of ass kissing it is better to finish that dream but the whole ethos these days is to believe in your dreams and fuck the haters so no one listens.

I find it even more pathetic when average gym rats drop several thousand of dollars per year on AAS and GH with no plans to ever step on stage or pursue a career that would necessitate such expense and effort.

I am guilty as charged though, recently dumping quite a bit of savings on a stock pile of GH and AAS.

Although after achieving my goal of being a ripped muscle god weighing 230lb+ under 6%bf, i will most likely never fuck with my finances ever again, and just focus on more realistic beneficial goals such as owning a home, learning new skills, and enjoying life in non-materialistic superficial means.

Epiphany of peace.

[Mad-scientist]

Thank you white widow for the reply you have good point about being pro and the downsides of it. I have been thinking about that all a lot lately. One thing ive realized if I go balls to the wall and try to go pro I can fuck my self up just as much with the drugs as if I was pro. So even trying to go pro is extremely dangerous. And you can have a great body with minimal gear usage as you stated. Lol my problem is that when I work out I get obsessed with it and its hard for me to be able to just not want to be the best at something. I know though that it would probably be a better life and a more fun one if I just used gear with in normal dosages and cycled on and off and perused a good career. Its one of those damn near impossible decisions to make because I know the side effects and possible side effects of using all the drugs needed. And its hard to say well I know one day I will be laying in a hospital bed because of all of this shit or that it will speed up the progression of damn near any health problem I have making it turn into a lethal one potentially. Its hard to know all that and say that its worth going for it. But its also hard to know you have the determination and good enough genetics to eventually break into the pro ranks and not try to do it. That has always been my problem. I think to much about it and I know that bodybuilding isn't worth the health problems. But at the same time I feel like living life without doing what you want to do is just as bad in a different way. I guess wasted potential. Im sure a lot of people on this board have thought the exact same thing that I just stated. Ive ran a few cycles in the past and had fun with them. But I haven't for a long time just cause of availability issues but it gave me a good amount of time to think and learn about the proper way to do it which is worth being out the game for a year and a half.l Im only 24 so I got a good amount of time left. My next step is to just do some light cycles and have fun. And really see how I respond to it all and do a competition. I really wanna do a test prop/ masteron/ primobolan cycle it might be hard to get real legit primo but it seems that people really like those cycles and its not harsh like a trenbalone cycle. Well I have ranted for long enough... But im sure every one has been there before to lol.

[whitewidow]

Thank you white widow for the reply you have good point about being pro and the downsides of it. I have been thinking about that all a lot lately. One thing ive realized if I go balls to the wall and try to go pro I can fuck my self up just as much with the drugs as if I was pro. So even trying to go pro is extremely dangerous. And you can have a great body with minimal gear usage as you stated. Lol my problem is that when I work out I get obsessed with it and its hard for me to be able to just not want to be the best at something. I know though that it would probably be a better life and a more fun one if I just used gear with in normal dosages and cycled on and off and perused a good career. Its one of those damn near impossible decisions to make because I know the side effects and possible side effects of using all the drugs needed. And its hard to say well I know one day I will be laying in a hospital bed because of all of this shit or that it will speed up the progression of damn near any health problem I have making it turn into a lethal one potentially. Its hard to know all that and say that its worth going for it. But its also hard to know you have the determination and good enough genetics to eventually break into the pro ranks and not try to do it. That has always been my problem. I think to much about it and I know that bodybuilding isn't worth the health problems. But at the same time I feel like living life without doing what you want to do is just as bad in a different way. I guess wasted potential. Im sure a lot of people on this board have thought the exact same thing that I just stated. Ive ran a few cycles in the past and had fun with them. But I haven't for a long time just cause of availability issues but it gave me a good amount of time to think and learn about the proper way to do it which is worth being out the game for a year and a half.l Im only 24 so I got a good amount of time left. My next step is to just do some light cycles and have fun. And really see how I respond to it all and do a competition. I really wanna do a test prop/ masteron/ primobolan cycle it might be hard to get real legit primo but it seems that people really like those cycles and its not harsh like a trenbalone cycle. Well I have ranted for long enough... But im sure every one has been there before to lol.

I think everybody should persue their dream but you also have to weigh the risk to rewards side of the eqaution and unlike other sports bodybuilders do not get salarys! Bodybuilders get shit treatment by the IFBB and the IFBB shows do not pay out shit for prize money. The only 2 shows as I stated where putting up money for a good cycle is worth it would be of course the Mr.Olympia and the Arnold Classic. Both shows would be insanely hard to win! All the other smaller shows just do not pay shit! I think there are alot of guys out there who have the potential to be a pro bodybuilder but they would never be down to use the amount of drugs needed and especially for the low amount of money these pros make. Something needs to change within the IFBB! This has been a problem for years! The IFBB just does not put up enough prize money. Hell I think the top prize for Mr. Olympia should be 10 million! Mr. Olympia means the best Bodybuilder in the WORLD! That should def be a 10 million dollar reward! I go on what other athletes in sports are making, basketball players,baseball players and football players make so much cash and do not work as hard as a top tier pro bodybuilder.

I would start out and do a few shows and see how you fair and try to talk to as many pros as you can and really get a sense of what these guys put their bodys through on a daily basis. It is one crazy sport that requires alot of HGH/insulin and AAS abuse along with diuretics and very strict diets and insane training. It never hurts to do a few shows and see how you do and then decide from there. You are young so you have alot of time to think things out.

[The Iron19]

OP have you competed already? I'm interested in your plan set-up for competition is? I myself have recently also been thinking of biting the bullet and finally competing next year at the NPC southern states novice class? Would be glad to hear your and others opinions about how you would go about this?

[Mad-scientist]

Ive never competed before. I just have been interested in doing so for like 6 years. Ive come to realize so far that I would have been better off competing and not doing great in a show and meeting people who could help me learn more than waiting to be in insane shape. Im a perfectionist and that's one reason why I want to compete is Ive began to realize that the body I want and work towards is worthy of winning competitions and its hard to keep on track when I don't have a legitimate reason to drive forward some times. I mean ive been in great shape many times I just get to this point to where I wonder why am I doing this if im not competing whats my reason for it all. So I feel that competing will give me more of a sense of purpose to and a reason at the end of every day to continue. Instead of just being on a endless pursuit with no physical goal I can see in the future. Being in great shape is a good goal its just once you get there and have no competition or real need to have a 100 percent perfect diet and training regiment its hard for me to keep that up for years at a time. And I want something like a competition to drive me into that rocky mode lol. Because with no competition its hard to stay in that mode for to long. Ive just kind of got to this point in life where Ive realized going out and drinking and partying is fun but I would rather sacrifice it all to have the body I want because at the end of the day you keep your body and muscles but the buzz fades away. But I to am curious of a good way to start competing and how to get into it all and lol even competition cutting stacks. I always figured something like test p/ tren / winstrol would be sufficient or even a test p/ winstrol/eq/ masteron cycle. And I always wondered is t3 or clenbuterol a must is it possible to get down to competition level body fats with out it. I have a million never ending questions. Ive realized its one thing to know all the drug profiles by heart and what the pros take and what every drug does and all about anti estrogens and hcg ect.. but without actual real life experience its all just theories and you still don't know how your body reacts to it.

[Mad-scientist]

I agree with you 100% white widow the sport is without a doubt under payed and its sad to see how the top competitors don't make to much money. Its sad to me some of them haven't even been remembered barley when they die. Ive been pretty pissed I haven't seen a Nassar tribute in the magazines yet. It really bothers me. I appreciate all the advice you have given me man. Its definitely good advice. I definitely will try a few shows and see how I like it and how I do before I start with the crazy cycles that include insulin and hgh. Insulin is the only drug that really worries me honestly and the diuretics... If I meet any pros ever ill try to get a feel about what they put their body through but from what ive heard most of them are pretty secretive about pretty much everything but their work outs. lol im sure there are pro body builders who look through get big. So if any of you feel like telling me what's up lol my inbox is always open.

[whitewidow]

I agree with you 100% white widow the sport is without a doubt under payed and its sad to see how the top competitors don't make to much money. Its sad to me some of them haven't even been remembered barley when they die. Ive been pretty pissed I haven't seen a Nassar tribute in the magazines yet. It really bothers me. I appreciate all the advice you have given me man. Its definitely good advice. I definitely will try a few shows and see how I like it and how I do before I start with the crazy cycles that include insulin and hgh. Insulin is the only drug that really worries me honestly and the diuretics... If I meet any pros ever ill try to get a feel about what they put their body through but from what ive heard most of them are pretty secretive about pretty much everything but their work outs. lol im sure there are pro body builders who look through get big. So if any of you feel like telling me what's up lol my inbox is always open.

When I was as young as 20 years old I had alot of guys pushing me to compete. The same guys are competetive bodybuilders and would tell me I had the type of physique the judges were looking for. I was also still natural at 20 years old. All I really needed was to put on 10-20lbs of lean mass while keeping my waistline. I kept training natural for a few more years and dieting as hard as I could and after 2-3 more years I had put on another 8 lbs of solid lean muscle mass.  At this point I was getting real strong naturally and had alot of size on me. I had gotten into the supplement business at this point and my business partner was also a nutritionist and a steroid guru.so all the advice I got was for free, so I lucked out in that regard. He was also a great guy because he respected the sport and he respected guys who used steroids for a purpose. Alot of people just do not understand guys who use steroids and talk down on them not really knowing why we do what we do!

Anyway by age 23-24 I was almost prime enough to compete but my nutrionist thought I was still lacking in a few areas and he wanted me to come in just perfect. The drug cycle he wanted me to use called for way to much HGH and insulin. It wasn't so much the steroids it was the abuse of HGH and insulin I was not cool with. When it came down to it I knew my nutritionist was right but I was not going to put my body through that just to win a show that would just get me some exposure. It is crazy what guys will do just to win a low level NPC show. I really think the amount of insulin some of these young guys use is just crazy! Insulin def does work very well but you have to be very carefull when you use insulin. If you want to be successful using insulin you really have to get your food intake timing on perfect track! You have to really know when to take in sugars and when to be careful on how much sugar you do take in. I would also do more bloodwork and get your pancrease tested more frequently.

I skipped out on the emerald up in WA back in 06. Alot of locals who had done that show thought I was a favorite to take the overall. The abuse of insulin and HGH and the lack of cash on the line is the reason I never went for that show. You also have to realize at that time I was making great money and I always look at everything risk to reward, and the risks were just way bigger then the reward. In the end not worth it to me.

Like I said earlier I like using a small amount of gear and HGH and still having a superior physique compared to most all guys and the ladys just love it! I get starred up and down and have ladys asking if they can fell me arms or chest and I say go ahead and molest me girl-lol. I am not even close to IFBB status but my physique still draws alot of heads and alot of girls wanting to rape me. It's fun being buff and ripped and I am a pretty boy as well so I got the triple threat package. I love getting alot of attention from girls but I also always think about how much TIME and WORK I put into my body. Nothing is better then having some muscles that just freak the women out. I'm not even joking I can get girls to start blushing and some drop their jaw.I rather be a Gigolo then a Bodybuilder-lol.

But like I said much respect to all bodybuilders putting their health on the line and living their dream. I got mad respect to every Pro and up and coming amateur bodybuilder doing what they have to do to go pro! That takes alot of dedication and I hope some day the IFBB starts taking care of their athletes a little better.

[Mad-scientist]

Lol I know what you mean man. Its nice to be able to impress girls by having a good body. Lol I got a injury a few years ago in both arms and ended up not being able to work out my upper body at all for about a year and lost all my size and I never realized how awesome being more muscular than the average guy by a big percentage is until I lost it. Having big muscles and along with a decently low fat percentage is a great conversation starter to. Ha ha ha drunk girls especially love it and have no ability to really not freak out when they see it and want to touch the muscles. I eventually gained my muscle back after recovering from the injury. Lol and its also great to know that you can hold your own in a fight. Im sure a lot of pros after a while have some problems in the sex department with that much gear to. Im sure the tren and deca can just cause havoc. And I cant even imagine how much it would suck when some of the amateurs competitors try to recover from a strong cycle with a hot girl friend at home and just eventually realize they are not gonna. And they need to go on testosterone replacement therapy. Is it even possible to go pro with out using insulin these days? I know they are trying to bring the sport back towards a more classic physique. Well they claim that they are in the magazines at least. This is a random question but how did you end up being a moderator on here? Its got to be pretty cool because  many people have stated this is where the body building forums all started. So its the original one that started it all pretty much.

[whitewidow]

Lol I know what you mean man. Its nice to be able to impress girls by having a good body. Lol I got a injury a few years ago in both arms and ended up not being able to work out my upper body at all for about a year and lost all my size and I never realized how awesome being more muscular than the average guy by a big percentage is until I lost it. Having big muscles and along with a decently low fat percentage is a great conversation starter to. Ha ha ha drunk girls especially love it and have no ability to really not freak out when they see it and want to touch the muscles. I eventually gained my muscle back after recovering from the injury. Lol and its also great to know that you can hold your own in a fight. Im sure a lot of pros after a while have some problems in the sex department with that much gear to. Im sure the tren and deca can just cause havoc. And I cant even imagine how much it would suck when some of the amateurs competitors try to recover from a strong cycle with a hot girl friend at home and just eventually realize they are not gonna. And they need to go on testosterone replacement therapy. Is it even possible to go pro with out using insulin these days? I know they are trying to bring the sport back towards a more classic physique. Well they claim that they are in the magazines at least. This is a random question but how did you end up being a moderator on here? Its got to be pretty cool because  many people have stated this is where the body building forums all started. So its the original one that started it all pretty much.

No- I don't think you could go pro without using insulin. I guess anything is possible but I hate to say I doubt turning pro without insulin usage is realistic these days. Pro bodybuilders these days are putting alot of their size on not with steroids but with Insulin,HGH and if they can get it pure IGF-1. Those drugs produce more quality muscle gains then any AAS.
Insulin is made by your body naturally same as most of these hormones we all use but with insulin you do have to be very careful when you administor insulin,you have to know when to eat and what to eat. after a work-out you shoot your insulin and then get some sugar in you quickly, drink a coke, eat a piece of a candy bar, just get some sugar in you quick and then eat your meal,40grams protein , 30-40grams carbs with at least 20-30 grams fat. Even if you do not use insulin a little sugar after a work-out is the key. Your blood sugar is super low after a intense work-out that is why some people feel so shitty after a work-out. They try to avoid sugars not knowing it is OK to eat some sugars after a hard work-out but if your using insulin the best time to shoot insulin is post work-out and then get some sugar in you right away and eat your usual meal.

Most of the solid muscle you see on pros is not from steroids it is from HGH,Insulin,IGF-1 if it is real and other peptides. Those drugs seem to put on the more permanent muscle(gains that stick) steroids of course work but they do not promote the kind of permanent gains one would get from Real IGF-1 or long term HGH/insulin muscle gains.

 I can say first hand when you use alot of AAS your libido will eventually go down. At first your libido might seem a bit higher but once you start crashing from a cycle your libido will crash as well. That is why alot of guys like to cruise on Test or IMO-the best way to go is use alot of HCG and a little clomid and wait it out and eventually your natural Test level will go back up. But I am a living voice that will say I used to be one Nasty, sex addicted, love to get super freaky, walking erection. I was one horny bastard! Luckily I started using at a young age and I definately noticed a drop in my libido and my sexual appetite seriously dropped. I went off for a good amount of time and used the right PCT drugs and my natural Test level did get back up to 758ng without any cruising or hormones just some HCG,clomid and DHEA and alot of time.

This is one reason I don't like to run long cycles anymore or have never cruised (bridged) between cycles. I really only used hardcore for pretty much the whole year back when I was 25,after that year I have mainly ran HGH and very small amounts of Test. Once a year I will run ONE cycle only before summer where I do a quick 10 week cycle where I use mainly highly androgenic/anabolic compounds like Tren,masteron,Halo and a small amount of Test suspension or prop. Cycles like that just get me ready for the summer months and gets me looking nice and thick yet lean and I do it for the ladys.

Lady's LOVE lean muscle! I love lean muscle! I sit there and stare in the mirror and flex up my muscles all the time,but that is how I was trained my nutrionist/trainer always told me to flex alot when I was at home. He always thought it would help with seperation if I constantly flexed my muscles and posed alot.

Another thing I will say is I know guys who are in insane shape! They are crazy perfectionist(worse then me)! This one guy I train with could be a real threat and could of won some hard shows. I don't think he is quite IFBB pro material but he is damn close and his usage is almost non-existant. This guy has no life at all! He makes good money and is happy but he is the type who would never have a family. I think he is way to selfish of a person to have a family. This guy could of done some serious damage at shows but he never got the balls up to go and compete in a show even though he would easily win.He just lifts weights for himself and to keep in shape for the women and also to draw alot of attention and have people always come to him and ask him questions about how to get so massive and ripped.

If this dude did not already have a great job he would make a crazy amount of money training people but he is a awesome guy and helps whoever asks him for help. He does not have to help anybody! he could be a prick about it and tell people to fuck off but he goes out of his way to help people and that is one reason he stays in such great shape! He loves the attention he gets from the women and from guys asking him questions. I get a little puzzled by the guy sometimes because he could be winning some pretty big time shows possibly go pro, but he chooses to just look good for himself and the ladys and be a example to the younger generation and older generation ,everybody asks the guy his advice. I have asked for his advice many times and we have been training together for 4 years but he has 7 years on me and just knows certain little secrets I don't know. He lives his life exactly how a pro like jay cuttler lives a day. he is disciplined. I thought I was OCD and crazy disciplined then you meet these other guys who are just super crazy,almost unhealthy when it comes to bodybuilding.

Those of us who mod have been on this forum for close to 10 years. All our posts are in the steroid section.Most of us have referrals from other boards as well that vouch for us. It is up to Ron who he wants to Mod his steroid forum.  

[Mad-scientist]

That was a very interesting read. I had no idea that It was really the hgh, igf1, and insulin that played the biggest role. Its kind of ironic because every one spends their money on more and more steroids to look like the pros do. And they are missing the key ingredients.  That's one thing ive noticed about this forum is that it seems to be a lot more focused on hgh than other forums. I imagined it was because the people here were more experienced. Theres something addicting about reading about all this stuff lol theres so much damn information on here. My damn test levels are at 413 ng/dl and im 24 its lame. So if I wanna fix them I gotta go to a trt doctor and get a system reboot basically. But they charge a arm and a leg and I wonder to myself if I should just cycle again with a moderate cycle than do a full on good pct with all the correct stuff or just go to them first. Or of course I could just go the other route and get some clomid nolvadex and hcg or something to that effect before I do a cycle to get my system back on track.

That is a very good method you have before summer. Lol and I have noticed what you mean girls like the lean muscle not the bloated testosterone cycle look. That's why my next cycle I want to try to just put on slower more quality muscle. I use to frown upon that but ive been thinking its a better way to go than to get a shit load of stretch marks from carrying a lot of water weight and looking like im bloated all the time. Masteron has always interested me it seems like it has very good effects with little bad side effects. Im thinking about doing  a recomp cycle of about 400mgs of masteron a week along with about 600 mgs of test e a week. Seems like fun lol. I need to study about hgh now. There are so many rumors about what it does and doesn't do and what dosages are optimal and how long to take it. I do appreciate all the info you have given me. It has been enlightening lol.

[whitewidow]

That was a very interesting read. I had no idea that It was really the hgh, igf1, and insulin that played the biggest role. Its kind of ironic because every one spends their money on more and more steroids to look like the pros do. And they are missing the key ingredients.  That's one thing ive noticed about this forum is that it seems to be a lot more focused on hgh than other forums. I imagined it was because the people here were more experienced. Theres something addicting about reading about all this stuff lol theres so much damn information on here. My damn test levels are at 413 ng/dl and im 24 its lame. So if I wanna fix them I gotta go to a trt doctor and get a system reboot basically. But they charge a arm and a leg and I wonder to myself if I should just cycle again with a moderate cycle than do a full on good pct with all the correct stuff or just go to them first. Or of course I could just go the other route and get some clomid nolvadex and hcg or something to that effect before I do a cycle to get my system back on track.

That is a very good method you have before summer. Lol and I have noticed what you mean girls like the lean muscle not the bloated testosterone cycle look. That's why my next cycle I want to try to just put on slower more quality muscle. I use to frown upon that but ive been thinking its a better way to go than to get a shit load of stretch marks from carrying a lot of water weight and looking like im bloated all the time. Masteron has always interested me it seems like it has very good effects with little bad side effects. Im thinking about doing  a recomp cycle of about 400mgs of masteron a week along with about 600 mgs of test e a week. Seems like fun lol. I need to study about hgh now. There are so many rumors about what it does and doesn't do and what dosages are optimal and how long to take it. I do appreciate all the info you have given me. It has been enlightening lol.

Some drugs like HGH might work better for some people then other people. It just depends on how much HGH your body is still making naturally. At your age your body is still probably producing HGH naturally when you are in your REM sleep. Timing is also a big factor when it comes to injecting certain drugs. You always want to inject your HGH in the morning on a empty stomach and maybe go back to bed for a hour then get up and eat your breakfast. It also does matter on the quality of drugs you get as well. I know chinese HGH is the most widely used HGH but if you can get a diffrent brand your results will probablly be better. There are to many counterfeit batches of chinese HGH going around. It is better to save your money and buy the real American brands.You can also go and get a IGF-1 test done and see if your HGH is legit.

IGF-1 is the best drug you can use but the problem is it is highly counterfeited and finding the real thing is like finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. You can only get so far with just regular AAS. Trenbolone,Masteron and Halotestin do promote some nice gains that will make a bodybuilder Rock HARD BUT hgh,INSULIN,iGF-1 cause gains that will stick with your physique. If you can get your BF% down to 4% without drugs I would say go for it! that right there is impressive                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

[Mad-scientist]

Thanks again for all the information. Ya ive seen things that say igf-1 at different places but than it always seems to be some derivative of it or something. Like igf-1 Ec I am pretty sure that's not what your talking about when you say Igf-1. And a lot of the hgh I see seems very low priced which worries me. I guess like you said all you can do is get blood tests to see if its real. And just read through a shit load of threads tell you find a lot of people praising one specific brand and then you just have to hope you are not getting counterfeits. The funny thing is even pro's get counterfeits some times so I guess I cant feel to bad if I get screwed over.

[whitewidow]

Thanks again for all the information. Ya ive seen things that say igf-1 at different places but than it always seems to be some derivative of it or something. Like igf-1 Ec I am pretty sure that's not what your talking about when you say Igf-1. And a lot of the hgh I see seems very low priced which worries me. I guess like you said all you can do is get blood tests to see if its real. And just read through a shit load of threads tell you find a lot of people praising one specific brand and then you just have to hope you are not getting counterfeits. The funny thing is even pro's get counterfeits some times so I guess I cant feel to bad if I get screwed over.

Pros get counterfeit shit all the time! They also know alot about how the chinese HGH game works. From what I have been told almost all the chinese HGH comes from the same factory. The brand or the colored cap does not really mean much. If a certain cap color is getting more praise like red tops all the chinese factory does is buy more red caps and make more red tops. The cap does not matter! blue tops,red tops,yellow tops,brown tops, most of it all comes from the same super chinese super lab.

alot of pros do use chinese HGH due to the price, and some use human grade as well, just the chinese is easier to get and cheaper. Pro bodybuilders shoot HGH all day long and while they do use human grade serostim and genotropin they mostly use chinese. Alot of these pros will admit HGH use is overrated by many, however some people really do get great gains from HGH if they are naturally HGH deficient. Alot pros seem to get most of there gains from insulin and Testosterone. Insulin is bound to work very well if used properly. IGF-1 is considered the best muscle building drug by many pros but most all of them admit all the IGF-1 going around is bunk. Real IGF-1 is extremly expensive and is literally impossible to get. Some of these bodybuilders who have used REAL IGF-1 around 7-8 years ago got extremly crazy gains off the IGF-1. There is alot of bunk shit that is going around and even the pros use it!

[Mad-scientist]

Interesting. Ive seen the blue tops around and riptropin. It seems like both of those are some what ok brands as long as they are real what do you think? I bet a lot of the pro's end up paying some one really connected to the pharmacy scene or something to that degree to get a lot of the crazy shit they do. I wonder what would happen if some normal body builder who's just done a cycle or two all of a sudden just started using hgh, igf-1, insulin, and pharmacy grade anabolic's. I bet they would gain like 50 pounds to 60 pounds in 5 to 6 months.

[whitewidow]

Interesting. Ive seen the blue tops around and riptropin. It seems like both of those are some what ok brands as long as they are real what do you think? I bet a lot of the pro's end up paying some one really connected to the pharmacy scene or something to that degree to get a lot of the crazy shit they do. I wonder what would happen if some normal body builder who's just done a cycle or two all of a sudden just started using hgh, igf-1, insulin, and pharmacy grade anabolic's. I bet they would gain like 50 pounds to 60 pounds in 5 to 6 months.

Riptropin has always been good as long as bought from the main riptropin source. Blue tops are all over the place and are more hit and miss then riptropin but also cheaper then riptropin.
The bigger name pros who have more money and sponsorships and connections to certain nutritionist and steroid gurus are the guys who have the better drug connections. That is how it always has worked the more money you have ,the more power you have. The top bodybuilders who work with the best steroid gurus and well known nutritionist get the best USA HGH and AAS but no matter what all bodybuilders have to rely on private chefs or compound pharmacys for their Tren,Masteron and EQ as well as some other products if they decide to use them.

If just a bodybuilder who has just a few cycles under their belt started using IGF-1,HGH, slin and USA grade AAS would only get sick if they did not know what they were doing. I think if a bodybuilder knows how to use insulin correctly wich is the most dangerous compound and did not go overboard on the HGH dosage and kept the anabolics to a reasonable amount I think they would gain great muscle mass. probably not 50 pounds but they would put on some serious muscle. The key is to get alot of knowledge on how to use HGH,insulin and IGF-1. That is going to put on some serious muscle that will stick.

steroids work and will help you gain mass and size but steroids will not put on the kind of permanent muscle that HGH,IGF-1 and slin will put on a man. those gains stick unlike gains that come from AAS. AAS gains tend to fade away. IGF-1,HGH,slin and a little Testosterone will create gains that will stick if all products are quality legit products. Real Igf-1 is pretty much impossible to find but you will find most pros heavily rely on HGH,Insulin and Testosterone that is what packs on most of their muscle,come contest time they add the Tren,Masteron and Halo and get in peak shape but those are just drugs they use leading into a show along, all year they rely on HGH,slin and testosterone. Most pros are not big on taking dbol or anadrol because it just does not create permanent muscle. everybody takes orals to start and just learns over the years their bodys react to it. Most guys do not put on permanent muscle using dbol or drol. It is a good way to get jacked up real fast but it does little in the long haul of things.