George Zimmerman - Discussion - Guilty or Innocent?

[Archer77]

thanks man.  I've been mocked on getbig for 18 months with "where are the eroding gun rights you promised!" and "you just support trayvon, that's why you diss zimmerman!"

No, I think trayvon probably belonged in jail for being a drug dealer.  I disliked zimm because he put that into public spectrum "Stand your ground".  Everyone in FL knew the law didn't apply one bit to zimmerman - he was the one advancing 2 blocks for a confrontation.  If anything, it was a self-defense shooting/justifiable homicide, but NOT castel doctrine and NOT SYG.

These ignorant people that love their guns and love zimmerman - you are supporting losing gun rights when you applaud zimmerman.  If you love your guns, you fcking HATE zimmerman - the worst kind of gun owner.  Grabbed his 9mm and ran into a dark alley for a showdown with a person he claimed was high and armed (on phone, he said that).

To be fair, you were also being mocked for your tendency to use your vivid imagination to add some b movie like elements to the story.  But, you have a point about gun rights.  I don't think that was a particularly impressive example of prognostication considering it happens every time there is a high profile shooting.

[240 is Back]

Wrong.  Trayvon would have been arrested and unable to prove any claim of self defense.  Hope this helps.  

Dude, i've sat thru SO many permit courses down here in FL.  The NRA instructor tells the story of the little old lady who can shoot dead a 300 pound BBer that is chasing her - before he even lays a finger on her - because she can say she has a weak heart and feared for life.

This is very real under FL law.  Zimm was MMA trained, armed, hopped out of a truck and ran two blocks.  Trayvon was skinny, scared and fired his weapon.  Then he lawyers up.  It's not a guarantee he'd beat the case - all depends on the jury - and THAT is why I dislike Florida law.  WAY too wide open.  Exact same case will get 2 verdicts with 2 juries, because it all boils down to "Do I believe the defendent feared for his life or feared a forcible felony (rape, etc).   I mean, the law really does suck.

[Soul Crusher]

Dude, i've sat thru SO many permit courses down here in FL.  The NRA instructor tells the story of the little old lady who can shoot dead a 300 pound BBer that is chasing her - before he even lays a finger on her - because she can say she has a weak heart and feared for life.

This is very real under FL law.  Zimm was MMA trained, armed, hopped out of a truck and ran two blocks.  Trayvon was skinny, scared and fired his weapon.  Then he lawyers up.  It's not a guarantee he'd beat the case - all depends on the jury - and THAT is why I dislike Florida law.  WAY too wide open.  Exact same case will get 2 verdicts with 2 juries, because it all boils down to "Do I believe the defendent feared for his life or feared a forcible felony (rape, etc).   I mean, the law really does suck.

Not true - zimm went to the police 2x to do crime scene reenactment before getting a lawyer and as far as MMA goes - he was pansie remember?

[Soul Crusher]

"There are very few African-American men who haven't had the experience of being followed in a department store — that includes me," Obama said.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-verdict-2013-7#ixzz2ZWEY4dZG





Oh what the fuck ever otwink. 

[240 is Back]

To be fair, you were also being mocked for your tendency to use your vivid imagination to add some b movie like elements to the story.  But, you have a point about gun rights.  I don't think that was a particularly impressive example of prognostication considering it happens every time there is a high profile shooting.

thanks man.  I'm a creative idiot on a lot of topics, just for the sake of fun discussion.  But I've held a FL permit for 16 years now.  I've sat thru many classes with friends and family members I took to the gun show to get their permit.  My bro shot a man at a pharmacy and quickly became EXPERT on FL gun laws.  And you gotta know the law - statute 790 printed in my car, because there are too many 22 year old cops that have no clue about gun laws.  I mean, I've been carrying this piece since you were 6, officer, and I've seen the law change radically in that time.  2005 brought us 'stand your ground' and then castle doctrine opened up to cars - it's the wild west here.  I can list 5 ways I can legally go shoot someone - it's TERRIFYING!  Cause I'm scared I'll run into some permit-holding jerkoff with history of shoving cops and beating women, I'll be out on my evening cardio, he'll start chasing me with that nervous look and a 9mm... I'll jog to get the hell away from this nutjob, and before I know it, he's capping me or I'm hiding in bushes to avoid a gun battle.

law needs to be WAY clearer.  not changed to limit rights - just clarified

[Soul Crusher]

thanks man.  I'm a creative idiot on a lot of topics, just for the sake of fun discussion.  But I've held a FL permit for 16 years now.  I've sat thru many classes with friends and family members I took to the gun show to get their permit.  My bro shot a man at a pharmacy and quickly became EXPERT on FL gun laws.  And you gotta know the law - statute 790 printed in my car, because there are too many 22 year old cops that have no clue about gun laws.  I mean, I've been carrying this piece since you were 6, officer, and I've seen the law change radically in that time.  2005 brought us 'stand your ground' and then castle doctrine opened up to cars - it's the wild west here.  I can list 5 ways I can legally go shoot someone - it's TERRIFYING!  Cause I'm scared I'll run into some permit-holding jerkoff with history of shoving cops and beating women, I'll be out on my evening cardio, he'll start chasing me with that nervous look and a 9mm... I'll jog to get the hell away from this nutjob, and before I know it, he's capping me or I'm hiding in bushes to avoid a gun battle.

law needs to be WAY clearer.  not changed to limit rights - just clarified

Does getting you head bangeg on the concrete qualifiy?

[The True Adonis]

Supporting Zimmerman is echoing that you support the right to defend yourself with a gun from thugs who wish to assault you.  I DO NOT see it any other way.  Not supporting Zimmerman is where you start giving lawmakers and society the ability to erode and take away your gun rights and/or right to defend yourself.

Zimmerman defended himself in a textbook example int what these laws were specifically created for and did so in a perfectly legal manner.  To claim anything otherwise is just pure ignorance.

[240 is Back]

Not true - zimm went to the police 2x to do crime scene reenactment before getting a lawyer and as far as MMA goes - he was pansie remember?

Yes, and he told 3 diff stories, on those 2 re-enactments and that night - and there were 3 versions

you read my post wrong - I'm saying trayvon could have capped him, lawyered up, and walked.  

And I don't think zimm was a pansie at all - he was winded from jogging two blocks to catch the punk kid.  Kid was hiding in bushes so as to not lead zimm to his house.  zimm caught a bad step, but he trained 18 months MMA fighting - I think his instructor was full of shit that "he was soft, a 1/10, coudn't throw a punch".

Sorry, dude had 500 hours MMA training... that instructor was lying.  He was a defense witness and he's profiting from the trial, remember?  

[The True Adonis]

Does getting you head bangeg on the concrete qualifiy?

These people want it to be legal to assault whomever you want freely.  They are unreasonable as you get.

[240 is Back]

Supporting Zimmerman is echoing that you support the right to defend yourself with a gun from thugs who wish to assault you.  I DO NOT see it any other way.  Not supporting Zimmerman is where you start giving lawmakers and society the ability to erode and take away your gun rights and/or right to defend yourself.

Zimmerman defended himself in a textbook example int what these laws were specifically created for and did so in a perfectly legal manner.  To claim anything otherwise is just pure ignorance.

I support zimmerman shooting the attacker in the heart.  Boom.  There it is.  THAT part was legal.

The other part - actively chasing a person who had fled, into a dark alley with no witnesses, perhaps cornering him in the bushes - well, that's like poking a pitbull for an hour, jumping in its cage and screaming.  When I get attacked, I shoot... hey, he atttacked me...

ZImm created the dangerous situation.  Trayvon was a bag of shit - but he was just trying to run to get away.

[Rhino]

I am glad I don't live in the USA as a white man.

[240 is Back]

Does getting you head bangeg on the concrete qualifiy?

please, read what i wrote - the shoot was legal.  I'm fine with that part of it.

I'd like to see FL law amended so that there is a DUTY TO RETREAT when you have a gun, as it USED to be

In 1997 when I got my permit, If I carried a gun, I had a duty NOT to run into the alley for "surveillance"...  I had a DUTY to step back and call 911 and wait  I coudl not ESCALTE nor provoke nor engage if I had on that gun.  There was a greater responsibility.  jeb changed that, and I don't think I like it.

STILL< if I smell a gun battle, I'm walking back 50 feet and calling 911.  NO WAY do I run into an alley to *maybe* catch someone doing property damage.  NO WAY.   You just don't do that if you think the man is armed and high.

[Parker]

Its not illegal to follow someone you suspect is up to no good.

that's up to interpretation...

[240 is Back]

These people want it to be legal to assault whomever you want freely.  They are unreasonable as you get.

I'm cool with him capping the punk kid.  If the shooting happened at the front of the park, hey, shit happens.

It's the act of someone chasing a person for 2 blocks before the confrontation - that creates fear and panic in the person being chased.  Under FL Law, if 333386 doesn't like me look and starts following me, and I run away and he keeps chasing - I CAN shoot him dead.  It's a fcuked up law, but it's due to the fact there isn't a law that says he cannot pack heat and chase me 2 blcoks at night.  

Everyone needs to just step back 5 feet when they're packing heat.  They don't do that anymore.

[Archer77]

I support zimmerman shooting the attacker in the heart.  Boom.  There it is.  THAT part was legal.

The other part - actively chasing a person who had fled, into a dark alley with no witnesses, perhaps cornering him in the bushes - well, that's like poking a pitbull for an hour, jumping in its cage and screaming.  When I get attacked, I shoot... hey, he atttacked me...

ZImm created the dangerous situation.  Trayvon was a bag of shit - but he was just trying to run to get away.

This is what's spinning around in my head. How responsible is Zimmerman for getting the situation rolling and are his poor choices punishable by the law?  Try as I might, this doesn't FEEL like a clean kill but it's technically legal.

[240 is Back]

This is what's spinning around in my head. How responsible is Zimmerman for getting the situation rolling and are his poor choices punishable by the law?  Try as I might, this doesn't FEEL like a clean kill.

under current FL law, zimmerman broke no law by chasing the kid 2 blocks.  It's flawed.  If any of you getbiggers, 50 pounds bigger with a tapout shirt and 9mm, chases me two blocks in the rain... guess what, you ain't coming home that night lol...

and it'd be perfectly legal for me, or travyon that night, to shoot the person chasing him because "I feared for my life".

law is WAY to vague, that's all.  And now, Obama is going to assfvck our gun rights thanks to zimmerman's cowboy spirit.

[Soul Crusher]

Why Obama wading in to this based on race when there is ZERO evidence that was the root cause of this?

F Obama - useless slug and grifting looter in his own right. 

[Straw Man]

Thats not what happened.  Trayvon decided to assault someone who was doing absolutely nothing wrong.  You simply CANNOT assault someone.  Zimmerman was 100 percent justified using the force that he did to protect himself.

feel free to explain how you know for a fact that is what happened

[Coach is Back!]

god, won't this fucking story go away ?  

No, and you can directly blame the left and Obama for the racial tensions brought on by this case. This case isn't that much different from anything else that goes on in this country everyday yet this piece of shit again, along with the left is stirring the pot of racism. Because of Obama, we might not see another Black president in our lifetime. Fuck you Obama.

[Archer77]

under current FL law, zimmerman broke no law by chasing the kid 2 blocks.  It's flawed.  If any of you getbiggers, 50 pounds bigger with a tapout shirt and 9mm, chases me two blocks in the rain... guess what, you ain't coming home that night lol...

and it'd be perfectly legal for me, or travyon that night, to shoot the person chasing him because "I feared for my life".

law is WAY to vague, that's all.  And now, Obama is going to assfvck our gun rights thanks to zimmerman's cowboy spirit.

I agree, I added technically legal before you responded.   What irks me is the exploitation of this case.  

[Nails]

Does getting you head bangeg on the concrete qualifiy?

could you get an exact count of how many times someone banged your head on the concrete?


Zimmerman told the police he counted exactly 25 times


i mean to be in that kind of rush, panic, fright, and yet be able to count each time his skull hit the concrete is amazing

[Soul Crusher]

No, and you can directly blame the left and Obama for the racial tensions brought on by this case. This case isn't that much different from anything else that goes on in this country everyday yet this piece of shit again, along with the left is stirring the pot of racism. Because of Obama, we might not see another Black president in our lifetime. Fuck you Obama.

Obama got royally owned into oblivion by Putin again and is not going to get gun control or immigration so he needs this fiasco to mask his failures elsewhere. 

[Rhino]

I was one of those people that loved Obama and was high on a cloud when he won. Now, I think he makes Bush look good. He has done more damage to freedom and oppressed white people so much; that he's caused more damage than invading Iraq ever will. Put him in a pic with Hitler, Stalion, Kadaffy.... and he will look in place

[The True Adonis]

I support zimmerman shooting the attacker in the heart.  Boom.  There it is.  THAT part was legal.

The other part - actively chasing a person who had fled, into a dark alley with no witnesses, perhaps cornering him in the bushes - well, that's like poking a pitbull for an hour, jumping in its cage and screaming.  When I get attacked, I shoot... hey, he atttacked me...

ZImm created the dangerous situation.  Trayvon was a bag of shit - but he was just trying to run to get away.

Thats just bullshit.  You are putting elements in there that NEVER happened because it does not line up with what you wanted to happen.

1. There was no "dark alley".
2. There were PLENTY of witnesses.  They corroborated Zimmerman`s account almost perfectly.

[Coach is Back!]

Odd that a president would go down this path. He only sounds ignorant and misinformed. WTF  

Didn't Obama say he had a lawyer license?

He used to (God knows how) along Mooshell, both had their licenses REVOKED. Like everything else in his life, it was probably a lie and a fake.