Author Topic: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"  (Read 8852 times)

hardgainerj

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"The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« on: June 27, 2013, 05:19:10 PM »
  I know that what I am about to write will piss some people off, but I’m an old man, 66, and don’t have anything to lose. I also know that many people will disagree with what I am about to say and it is certainly their right to disagree. What I have to say is only one man’s opinion, but it’s the opinion of a man who’s been around the block a few times with this iron game.
     Lately, from several sources, I have noticed that the so called ‘low bar’ squat is being taught as a legitimate way to perform an exercise that many people (myself included) consider to be the best and most productive exercise that can be performed with a barbell. This ‘low bar’ squat style seems to be particularly prevalent in some CrossFit circles. I have also had people show up at my gym performing squats in this style after reading about it in a certain book.
     I will start my argument by stating that after well over 50 years as a competitive lifter, coach, and gym owner, I have never seen a top-ranked bodybuilder, Olympic lifter, or serious track or football athlete doing low bar squats.
     The squat movement, whether it be high bar full back squats, front squats, half or quarter squats, or Hatfield bar squats, to my mind, should be about developing and strengthening the quadriceps, as well as the glutes. The high bar squat, when done properly, should not involve the hamstrings much at all. These muscles should be developed with straight legged deadlifts and Good Mornings (always with the knees slightly unlocked) as well as the various leg curling and glute ham gastroc movements. The hamstrings are also strongly involved in Olympic lifting movements such as snatches, cleans, and pulls.
     I can remember the first powerlifting meet held in Georgia at the old Butler Street YMCA in Atlanta in December 1965. It drew a diverse crew of bodybuilders, Olympic lifters, and men who already considered themselves powerlifters. As one can imagine, all kinds of squat styles were used. A few years later virtually everyone at powerlifting meets were setting up with the bar half way down their deltoids, using a relatively wide foot stance and barely breaking parallel; and this is as it should have been. Squatting in this style allows one to lift the most weight while staying within the parameters of the rules for the squat movement in competition.
     In the old days at Coffee’s Gym in the 1980′s, the powerlifters would do high bar squats until about a month out from the competition, at which time they would put on their super suits, widen their foot stance, and set up with the bar half way down their shoulders. Immediately they would squat 100-200 pounds more than they’d been doing on the high bar squat. After the competition they’d go back to their high bar squat routine. Not only did these men become very strong in the squat movement, they also possessed very good quadricep development.
     In closing, I would like to say that most trainers should stick to high bar squats, front squats, or squats with the Hatfield bar if it’s strong legs and good quadricep development you seek. If it’s the posterior chain you want to strengthen and develop, stick with Romanian deadlifts, Good Mornings, Olympic lift movements, as well as hyperextensions and various leg curls.
      The low bar squat is not an exercise for leg development; it’s a way of doing a strength feat that allows a man or woman to lift the most weight while staying within the rules for the lift, but it’s not a movement that those who wish to develop leg strength for sports or to improve the shape and appearance of their legs has any business doing.
     If one wishes to develop real leg strength, every effort should be made to keep the torso upright when squatting. When the torso is inclined forward, much of the effort is transferred to the butt, lower back, and hamstrings. This is not what we want. I would also like to add that all squatting and pulling movements should be performed with the back strongly and rigidly arched. In my opinion the very best test and developer of real leg strength is the full front squat with the back strongly arched. The full high bar squat is not far behind. The low bar back squat is not even on the list.

John B. Coffee
USA Weightlifting Senior International Coach

http://coffeesgym.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/the-low-bar-squat-is-not-an-exercise/

BB

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 05:25:30 PM »
Ha, I read that too, I think much of it comes as a backlash to the super low bar Starting Strength and Good Morning style squats that have crept in.

In general, the best advice is to just figure out what fits you and run with that after a certain point. You can teach a person all the form and form tricks in the world, but if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

hardgainerj

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 05:52:59 PM »
Ha, I read that too, I think much of it comes as a backlash to the super low bar Starting Strength and Good Morning style squats that have crept in.

In general, the best advice is to just figure out what fits you and run with that after a certain point. You can teach a person all the form and form tricks in the world, but if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.
i dont think the SS squat is super low

BB

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 06:10:24 PM »
Well it depends on how you look at it, Coffee is older, he's delt with olympic lifters and older powerlifters for the most part. Rippetoe's set up is lower than many, and then when you get the self trainers, it drops even more sometimes.

Here's Rippetoe himself, for those that haven't seen it -


arce1988

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 06:14:48 PM »
  Ouch

Mr Anabolic

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 07:53:50 PM »
Well it depends on how you look at it, Coffee is older, he's delt with olympic lifters and older powerlifters for the most part. Rippetoe's set up is lower than many, and then when you get the self trainers, it drops even more sometimes.

Here's Rippetoe himself, for those that haven't seen it -



Hurts my neck watching that.  Takes to much time in between reps.  If I did that, I could squat that weight for 30-40 reps.

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 07:58:06 PM »
Doesn't that so called "natural" bodybuilder who's now getting bitch tits do these stupid squats?

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 08:17:38 PM »
Layne is a low, low bar  -

.

To be fair, Powerlifting legend Steve Goggins is also a low, low bar guy too -

.

But they are even low by powerlifting standards.

TommyBoy

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 09:21:11 PM »
Every time I see Layne do squats all I can do is scratch my head at how such tiny legs can support that weight. The form he has there, is all that just for trying to get as much weight up as possible? It doesn't seem to be that conducive for growth.

edit: I guess so. I should probably research power lifting more.

Griffith

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 01:42:48 AM »
I prefer the powerlifting style squat which has a wider stance and the bar lower.

Allows my form to be much better and have more control

Also, I see squats as more of a full-body builder.

As a natural; I think the heavy weight on top of the spine stresses the CNS and makes the body produce more testosterone and GH.

Sergio Oliva also said that squats make "evertyhing grow" as have most of the older bodybuilders.

jon cole

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 01:59:57 AM »




"hitler finds out that low bar squats failed him."
asstropin

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 02:33:46 AM »
Low bar squatting = ego lifting.

Psychopath

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 03:57:49 AM »
Best invention to date right after the vibrator. If your gym has this, then count yourself lucky.


oldtimer1

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 04:37:35 AM »
The typical low bar wide stance  powerlifting squat has been called by some powerlifters a hip lock. It should be permanently changed to that to clearly make it evident it's not an Olympic squat. An olympic squat is high bar placement. Fairly upright and deep.

Mawse

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 06:33:47 AM »
I prefer the powerlifting style squat which has a wider stance and the bar lower.

Allows my form to be much better and have more control

Also, I see squats as more of a full-body builder.

As a natural; I think the heavy weight on top of the spine stresses the CNS and makes the body produce more testosterone and GH.

Sergio Oliva also said that squats make "evertyhing grow" as have most of the older bodybuilders.

Brotarded logic at its finest, enjoy the awesome anabolic benefits fom your body producing the equivalent of 0.01 cc of test and less gh than I throw away in an empty vial

Psychopath

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 06:41:17 AM »
Brotarded logic at its finest, enjoy the awesome anabolic benefits fom your body producing the equivalent of 0.01 cc of test and less gh than I throw away in an empty vial


x2.

Epic natty pipe dreams.

Griffith

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 07:05:06 AM »
Brotarded logic at its finest, enjoy the awesome anabolic benefits fom your body producing the equivalent of 0.01 cc of test and less gh than I throw away in an empty vial

Either way, however it works,  it helps build and strengthen the whole body.

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 09:22:39 AM »




"hitler finds out that low bar squats failed him."

lolz

Nirvana

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2013, 09:31:20 AM »
I'm pissed off now

hardgainerj

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2013, 12:29:43 PM »

funk51

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2013, 12:33:21 PM »
Best invention to date right after the vibrator. If your gym has this, then count yourself lucky.


looks like the dave draper top squat????
F

funk51

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2013, 12:42:39 PM »
looks like the dave draper top squat????
checked it out the rogue squat bar as shown  goes for 395 dollars and weighs 70 lbs. the draper top squat attaches to your oly bar weighs 16 lbs and goes for 189 dollars. advantage rogue i believe. ;D
F

TommyBoy

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Re: "The Low Bar Squat is Not An Exercise"
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2013, 02:10:33 PM »
Best invention to date right after the vibrator. If your gym has this, then count yourself lucky.



If your gym doesn't have a bar like this, could you just use some lifting straps to get the same effect? Use them as handles.