Author Topic: How Vaccinations Changed the world...  (Read 7184 times)

tu_holmes

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How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« on: July 02, 2013, 08:59:54 AM »
I'm not trying to debate any of the autism groups, but here's a graph on how vaccines have changed the world we live in.


Disgusted

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2013, 09:11:16 AM »
I call BS on some of these especially the flu.

tu_holmes

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2013, 09:13:23 AM »
I call BS on some of these especially the flu.

That is not "the flu".

It's a different thing.

This is a bacteria. Not the flu virus.

Slik

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2013, 09:13:30 AM »
Don't get me started
(Not even talking bout autism)

freespirit

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2013, 09:16:40 AM »
It's an industry. It's all about making profit, not making people healthy.

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 09:26:30 AM »
Suprisingly thousands still die worldwide each year from the plague.  yes the plague!

OneMoreRep

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 09:31:45 AM »
That is not "the flu".

It's a different thing.

This is a bacteria. Not the flu virus.


Correct!

What I will add in disgusted defense is that the flu vaccine, meant to help you against the flu virus, is a complete waste of time and money. That I can explain in simple terms and with studies as well.

Everything on that poster is true though.

"1"

tu_holmes

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 10:59:28 AM »
Correct!

What I will add in disgusted defense is that the flu vaccine, meant to help you against the flu virus, is a complete waste of time and money. That I can explain in simple terms and with studies as well.

Everything on that poster is true though.

"1"

Agreed on all points.

Tapeworm

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 11:03:16 AM »
Suprisingly thousands still die worldwide each year from the plague.  yes the plague!

Your mom has the pubic plague.

snx

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 11:20:04 AM »
Correct!

What I will add in disgusted defense is that the flu vaccine, meant to help you against the flu virus, is a complete waste of time and money. That I can explain in simple terms and with studies as well.

Everything on that poster is true though.

"1"

I'm curious, given your priviledged knowledge based on your work. Let's hear it...you have more intelligent comments on this than most of the doomsday-ers and conspiracy theorists on here.

OneMoreRep

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2013, 01:21:49 PM »
I'm curious, given your priviledged knowledge based on your work. Let's hear it...you have more intelligent comments on this than most of the doomsday-ers and conspiracy theorists on here.

First, I will give you a simplified explanation as to why "I" believe they are useless (for the most part) and if you desire literary proof from peer-reviewed studies, I can guide you to a group of studies as well.

Let's delineate the most important parts to my argument first:

  • Viruses are smart & adaptive.
  • The Flu vaccine isn't a "perfect bullet" able to encompass strain variability.
  • Antibody stimulation & production is not always achieved by way of a single vaccine, especially when trying to target a large pool of viruses, which constitute the total picture of influenza infection.
  • The efficacy of the flu vaccine wears off after 6-8 months

Viruses are smart and adaptive

Viruses are smart critters and highly adaptive to the environment, or better said vector, which they dwell within. Once a virus enters the body of one person it adapts to its surroundings and slowly experiences various mutations to the original strain. By the time the virus travels from the original host to about the 10th person, it has become immune to many defenses and mutated into a pretty versatile strain. Ergo, if you think that by getting a vaccine for the original strain will help you avoid catching the flu, what isn't taken into account is that the strain which you will now catch is completely different from what your body is able to defend itself against. Consider the new strain a "2.0" version that has smartened up and realized that someone is after it and found ways to dodge the original bullet shot towards its trajectory.

The Flu vaccine isn't a "perfect bullet" able to encompass strain variability.

Feeding off from the information stated in my first point. Since you can not produce flu vaccines on a daily, weekly or even monthly basis, the microbiologists and virologists that put together these vaccines do so in a way that attempts to provide a "universal" vaccine that can hopefully aid in keeping people protected. Unfortunately, in an ever-changing world, where viruses can mutate from person-to-person, it's futile to even think that a flu vaccine will do much.

Antibody stimulation & production is not always achieved by way of a single vaccine, especially when trying to target a large pool of viruses, which constitute the total picture of influenza infection.

Alright, so you get a vaccine and what you are truly getting are bits and pieces of inactivated viruses in order to stimulate production of antibodies towards the most popular strains of the virus that causes the worst type of disease manifestations. Now, putting aside what I mentioned previously about viruses being smart and adapting to their new environments (regardless of how harsh the environment is and the immune response staged by lymphocytes within our body), lets consider the fact that even if you have been vaccinated, your body might still not be ready or capable to truly tackle the virus if you are exposed to it.

Why?

Consider these points:

Morphology (as previously mentioned) leading to your body being incapable of identifying the new strain.

Becoming infected much too soon before your body is capable of producing adequate antibodies to stage a full-blown attack. If you get infected within less than 10 days after receiving that vaccine, you will not have enough antibody production to properly fend off that virus.

Your immune system can't recognize the FULL VIRUS once you are infected by it, because you were vaccinated (as mentioned earlier) with mere fragments of various forms of flu viruses and not identical or intact matches. If your body doesn't recognize the host virus that infects you in its entire form, the defense that is staged is not as potent as it would be if you had a complete virological blueprint of the strain.

Co-morbidity drains your system of its ability to stage a true attack against the virus. So, imagine you're presently battling a bad case of bronchitis, gastroenteritis or any other form of bad bacterial and/or viral infection and then you get hit with that devastating strain of the flu that everyone has been talking about. What happens next? You guessed it. Your body is incapable of properly staging an attack due to an already weakened immune system not being capable of serving (or in this case waging war on) two masters.

The efficacy of the flu vaccine wears off after 6-8 months

Lapse in time since becoming vaccinated and becoming exposed. If you get vaccinated at the beginning of the year and you get exposed to the virus (regardless of its mutations) 7-8 months later, it might not have the same efficacy due to the vaccination losing its effectiveness over time. Unlike the type of antibodies your body produces from a naturally acquired infection, a flu vaccine does not produce the same lifelong and potent antibodies that your body produces when it is exposed to a natural infection with it's subsequent disease process and recovery (this is backed by the CDC, the proof of that can be seen in this pamphlet put out by the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/flu/downloads/PL-dis-influenza-color-office.pdf).

***********************

That's my basic argument as to why the flu vaccine does not work as intended (universal bullet) or being as effective as some proclaim it to be. Remember though, I am not a virologist or microbiologist. I have a strong medical background (was pre-med and got a degree in Biology and Chemistry -BS & MS- prior to going into business), but I am not on the leading edge of medical research.

Sorry that I couldn't get to this earlier, but I was swamped with work and only got to this about 30  minutes ago.

"1"

Psychopath

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2013, 01:35:25 PM »
I don't get vaccinated for anything besides what they gave me as a child.

Haven't been sick or got the flu for over 4yrs and running.

I take vitamin C daily, that's pretty much it. lol


snx

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2013, 02:00:37 PM »
First, I will give you a simplified explanation as to why "I" believe they are useless (for the most part) and if you desire literary proof from peer-reviewed studies, I can guide you to a group of studies as well.

Let's delineate the most important parts to my argument first:

  • Viruses are smart & adaptive.
  • The Flu vaccine isn't a "perfect bullet" able to encompass strain variability.
  • Antibody stimulation & production is not always achieved by way of a single vaccine, especially when trying to target a large pool of viruses, which constitute the total picture of influenza infection.
  • The efficacy of the flu vaccine wears off after 6-8 months

Viruses are smart and adaptive

Viruses are smart critters and highly adaptive to the environment, or better said vector, which they dwell within. Once a virus enters the body of one person it adapts to its surroundings and slowly experiences various mutations to the original strain. By the time the virus travels from the original host to about the 10th person, it has become immune to many defenses and mutated into a pretty versatile strain. Ergo, if you think that by getting a vaccine for the original strain will help you avoid catching the flu, what isn't taken into account is that the strain which you will now catch is completely different from what your body is able to defend itself against. Consider the new strain a "2.0" version that has smartened up and realized that someone is after it and found ways to dodge the original bullet shot towards its trajectory.

The Flu vaccine isn't a "perfect bullet" able to encompass strain variability.

Feeding off from the information stated in my first point. Since you can not produce flu vaccines on a daily, weekly or even monthly basis, the microbiologists and virologists that put together these vaccines do so in a way that attempts to provide a "universal" vaccine that can hopefully aid in keeping people protected. Unfortunately, in an ever-changing world, where viruses can mutate from person-to-person, it's futile to even think that a flu vaccine will do much.

Antibody stimulation & production is not always achieved by way of a single vaccine, especially when trying to target a large pool of viruses, which constitute the total picture of influenza infection.

Alright, so you get a vaccine and what you are truly getting are bits and pieces of inactivated viruses in order to stimulate production of antibodies towards the most popular strains of the virus that causes the worst type of disease manifestations. Now, putting aside what I mentioned previously about viruses being smart and adapting to their new environments (regardless of how harsh the environment is and the immune response staged by lymphocytes within our body), lets consider the fact that even if you have been vaccinated, your body might still not be ready or capable to truly tackle the virus if you are exposed to it.

Why?

Consider these points:

Morphology (as previously mentioned) leading to your body being incapable of identifying the new strain.

Becoming infected much too soon before your body is capable of producing adequate antibodies to stage a full-blown attack. If you get infected within less than 10 days after receiving that vaccine, you will not have enough antibody production to properly fend off that virus.

Your immune system can't recognize the FULL VIRUS once you are infected by it, because you were vaccinated (as mentioned earlier) with mere fragments of various forms of flu viruses and not identical or intact matches. If your body doesn't recognize the host virus that infects you in its entire form, the defense that is staged is not as potent as it would be if you had a complete virological blueprint of the strain.

Co-morbidity drains your system of its ability to stage a true attack against the virus. So, imagine you're presently battling a bad case of bronchitis, gastroenteritis or any other form of bad bacterial and/or viral infection and then you get hit with that devastating strain of the flu that everyone has been talking about. What happens next? You guessed it. Your body is incapable of properly staging an attack due to an already weakened immune system not being capable of serving (or in this case waging war on) two masters.

The efficacy of the flu vaccine wears off after 6-8 months

Lapse in time since becoming vaccinated and becoming exposed. If you get vaccinated at the beginning of the year and you get exposed to the virus (regardless of its mutations) 7-8 months later, it might not have the same efficacy due to the vaccination losing its effectiveness over time. Unlike the type of antibodies your body produces from a naturally acquired infection, a flu vaccine does not produce the same lifelong and potent antibodies that your body produces when it is exposed to a natural infection with it's subsequent disease process and recovery (this is backed by the CDC, the proof of that can be seen in this pamphlet put out by the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/flu/downloads/PL-dis-influenza-color-office.pdf).

***********************

That's my basic argument as to why the flu vaccine does not work as intended (universal bullet) or being as effective as some proclaim it to be. Remember though, I am not a virologist or microbiologist. I have a strong medical background (was pre-med and got a degree in Biology and Chemistry -BS & MS- prior to going into business), but I am not on the leading edge of medical research.

Sorry that I couldn't get to this earlier, but I was swamped with work and only got to this about 30  minutes ago.

"1"

This is a very cogent argument. I plan to use this to discuss the situation with the wife. Invariably, we have the same circular arguments about this every winter with the kids. I will be using this document to make some points to augur in favor of NOT vaccinating against the flu. Like you, I feel they provide a marginal benefit, at best. And even then, not even for the intended target (seniors and kids).

OneMoreRep

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 02:06:39 PM »
This is a very cogent argument. I plan to use this to discuss the situation with the wife. Invariably, we have the same circular arguments about this every winter with the kids. I will be using this document to make some points to augur in favor of NOT vaccinating against the flu. Like you, I feel they provide a marginal benefit, at best. And even then, not even for the intended target (seniors and kids).

Thank you.

That is my take on the flu vaccine.

On the other hand, I don't know enough about the efficacy of other types of childhood vaccinations (i.e. measles, mumps, rubella etc.), but all popular studies (at least the ones that I have seen) suggest that they are indeed effective.

For me, I will continue to gracefully opt out of receiving the flu vaccine when prompted by my general practitioner. I will do so until they do come up with a true universal flu vaccine that is capable of targeting all strains regardless of mutational variability, but that seems like a long shot.

"1"

Slik

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2013, 02:13:10 PM »
I'm not trying to debate any of the autism groups, but here's a graph on how vaccines have changed the world we live in.


u do realize that poster says the US n not the world right.

ukjeff

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2013, 02:14:10 PM »
u do realize that poster says the US n not the world right.
Some Americans dont even know there is a "world"

tu_holmes

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2013, 02:19:51 PM »
u do realize that poster says the US n not the world right.

You do realize that the vaccinations are used all over the world right?

Also, if the US wasn't here, how fucked would the rest of the world have been during the early part of the 20th century?

Pretty fucked.

So... yeah. That.

Slik

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2013, 02:24:35 PM »
This is one of this politics, religion dogmatic subjects with most people. Except I'm not dogmatic about anything really. I don't give a shit wut other people believe or do. I don't think vaccines r the cause of all disease but and everything people say but there is some very interesting facts I'm guessing u r aware of since u seem to be so vaccination educated.

Slik

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2013, 02:26:50 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/The-Virus-Vaccine-Contaminated-Government/dp/0312342721/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372800063&sr=8-1&keywords=the+virus+and+the+vaccinei posted this in the past wen vaccines came up before. If u think u know vaccines n history if the fd up shit that goes on this is a must read.

 

Slik

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2013, 02:28:04 PM »
You do realize that the vaccinations are used all over the world right?

Also, if the US wasn't here, how fucked would the rest of the world have been during the early part of the 20th century?

Pretty fucked.

So... yeah. That.

so u r saying that the polio vaccine was responsible for saving Europe and the rest of the world  from the virus? Srs question without. Malice or attitude. Just asking.

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2013, 02:28:56 PM »
Flu shots are a wast of time when you're a healthy. When you're in a risk category you might get some mileage out of a flu shot.

There is no solid foundation for linking autism to vaccinations.

tu_holmes

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2013, 02:29:54 PM »
This is one of this politics, religion dogmatic subjects with most people. Except I'm not dogmatic about anything really. I don't give a shit wut other people believe or do. I don't think vaccines r the cause of all disease but and everything people say but there is some very interesting facts I'm guessing u r aware of since u seem to be so vaccination educated.

I am quite aware.

Let's put it this way... Vaccinations while there are some issues of course, save many more people than they harm every year.

If someone doesn't want to vaccinate their kids, that's fine, doesn't bother me... Mine are vaccinated and doing quite well.

There was an episode of Penn and Teller "Bullshit" which discussed vaccines and I agree with it completely.



tu_holmes

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 02:32:13 PM »
so u r saying that the polio vaccine was responsible for saving Europe and the rest of the world  from the virus? Srs question without. Malice or attitude. Just asking.

Was the Polio vaccine not shared around the world?

I am not angry at all. I'm just asking if that's not true.

Kwon_2

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2013, 02:33:18 PM »
u do realize that poster says the US n not the world right.

The World Tu lives in = US

Spike

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Re: How Vaccinations Changed the world...
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2013, 02:34:02 PM »
then how come I see the PERTUSSIS video on national TV all the time - with that damn baby coughing like a 60yr old coal miner