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Author Topic: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too  (Read 2414 times)

Soul Crusher

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U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« on: July 03, 2013, 10:02:10 AM »
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OzmO

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2013, 10:26:07 AM »
trade off......is it worth it?


Method to prevent mail bombs and anthrax or increase risk?
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Roger Bacon

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2013, 10:29:42 AM »
Quote from: OzmO on July 03, 2013, 10:26:07 AM
trade off......is it worth it?


Method to prevent mail bombs and anthrax or increase risk?

No it's not worth it, what percentage of the population is killed by terrorism or mail bombs? .000000000000001? ???

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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OzmO

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2013, 10:35:51 AM »
Quote from: P.I.P on July 03, 2013, 10:29:42 AM
No it's not worth it, what percentage of the population is killed by terrorism or mail bombs? .000000000000001? ???

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

There is more to that argument and it goes along the sames line with other things:

If people are afraid to open mail it affects commerce which affects everyone.

See PIP, most people aren't like you and I, we don't let stupid shit scare us.  We look at it logically.  Like with air travel or getting struck by lighting while walking.  Many people stopped going to mid-night premieres because of that shooting a couple years ago at the batman movie.   So what happens is politicians and government agencies are pressured to make people feel safe.  Just like the TSA bullshit.

To say its ok because YOUR chances are .0000001%  ISN"T the REASON why they are doing this.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2013, 10:44:11 AM »
My mail delivery being horrible now makes sense.   ;D  ;D  ;D
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Roger Bacon

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2013, 10:46:15 AM »
Quote from: OzmO on July 03, 2013, 10:35:51 AM
There is more to that argument and it goes along the sames line with other things:

If people are afraid to open mail it affects commerce which affects everyone.

See PIP, most people aren't like you and I, we don't let stupid shit scare us.  We look at it logically.  Like with air travel or getting struck by lighting while walking.  Many people stopped going to mid-night premieres because of that shooting a couple years ago at the batman movie.   So what happens is politicians and government agencies are pressured to make people feel safe.  Just like the TSA bullshit.

To say its ok because YOUR chances are .0000001%  ISN"T the REASON why they are doing this.

I see what you're saying, but we can't trust them to do this kind of thing responsibly. 

The system works, the only reason they don't want to do this stuff the right, legal way is because they want complete control.  They can't advance their agenda without these kind of powers. 
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OzmO

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2013, 10:53:50 AM »
Quote from: P.I.P on July 03, 2013, 10:46:15 AM
I see what you're saying, but we can't trust them to do this kind of thing responsibly.  

The system works, the only reason they don't want to do this stuff the right, legal way is because they want complete control.  They can't advance their agenda without these kind of powers.  

I agree, much of this starts off with good intentions, then 20 years down the road it gets abused.  Problem is, just like this Snowden stuff, what the NSA id doing is legal, but the public is numb to it.  I think most, including myself, don't have too much of a problem with some of it, i just want independent oversight.

As far as agenda goes, their agenda has to be ultimately protect and promote commerce.  With out it we are a weak country.  A total dictatorship or totalitarian state doesn't flourish in the long term. So i don't at this time see it as a sinister agenda, but one to be weary of with out oversight.
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whork

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2013, 11:25:14 AM »
Quote from: P.I.P on July 03, 2013, 10:29:42 AM
No it's not worth it, what percentage of the population is killed by terrorism or mail bombs? .000000000000001? ???

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


+1
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Roger Bacon

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2013, 11:37:47 AM »
Quote from: OzmO on July 03, 2013, 10:53:50 AM
I agree, much of this starts off with good intentions, then 20 years down the road it gets abused.  Problem is, just like this Snowden stuff, what the NSA id doing is legal, but the public is numb to it.  I think most, including myself, don't have too much of a problem with some of it, i just want independent oversight.

As far as agenda goes, their agenda has to be ultimately protect and promote commerce.  With out it we are a weak country.  A total dictatorship or totalitarian state doesn't flourish in the long term. So i don't at this time see it as a sinister agenda, but one to be weary of with out oversight.

Well, I think lots of smart people are arguing that it's clearly illegal but who knows.  

I think they are trying to protect commerce and society, but not for the good of "the people".  They want control over some, to advance others.  These people in power have repeatedly shown us that they have complete contempt for our republic and system.
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OzmO

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2013, 11:40:59 AM »
Quote from: P.I.P on July 03, 2013, 11:37:47 AM
Well, I think lots of smart people are arguing that it's clearly illegal but who knows.  

I think they are trying to protect commerce and society, but not for the good of "the people".  They want control over some, to advance others.  These people in power have repeatedly shown us that they have complete contempt for our republic and system.

Yep, its been that way for quite some time.

I would like someone to show me where what the NSA is doing was illegal.  It shouldn't be a hard thing to do if it truly is.  To me its a an important point in the whole Snowden matter and how he should be dealt with.
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loco

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2013, 11:41:58 AM »
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818)
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Roger Bacon

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2013, 11:46:29 AM »
Quote from: OzmO on July 03, 2013, 11:40:59 AM
Yep, its been that way for quite some time.

I would like someone to show me where what the NSA is doing was illegal.  It shouldn't be a hard thing to do if it truly is.  To me its a an important point in the whole Snowden matter and how he should be dealt with.



http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/439668500/liberty-is-rising-truth-in-media-project-0
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GigantorX

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2013, 11:49:36 AM »
Trading liberty for safety is never ,ever an even trade.

After a period of time you will have neither liberty or safety as the government you gave it all away too is now tyrannical.
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Dos Equis

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Re: U.S. Post Office now implicated in spying scandal too
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2013, 12:59:08 PM »
Didn't read the link, but we always trade liberty for safety to some degree.  That's why we have law enforcement, jails, prisons, etc.  It is becoming increasingly difficult to draw lines given the enemies and threats we face today, but the notion that we have absolute freedom to do whatever we want is false. 

Not sure where this will all end, but there does have to be some kind of balance between protecting privacy and protecting the public. 
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