Obama is the anti-christ

[King Shizzo]

Guys, there almost certainly was a Jesus. The same thing for the Prophet Muhammad. There is no way you create millions of followers without having some root of truth.

Damn, then at the same time I look to the ancient gods. How did so many people believe in them? I know part of it was to explain away the natural phenomenon that they did not comprehend. Yet we can compare Jesus's bible exploits to that of a Zeus.

My opininion= the bible is a fairy tale. Jesus as a man can be respected.

[NarcissisticDeity]

the bible ,whether you are a Christian or not contain more historical facts than probably any other book written dumb fuck.  Obviously you have never read a verse.

No it doesn't

[DroppingPlates]

pretty much but the one Wiggs is referring to is the main anti-Christ spoken of in revelations.

it is a character in a story. supposedly a true story - yet to happen. this character is seen as being the nemesis of christ but i think thats a misunderstanding and overly critical analysis. anti christ would be christs yin  to his own yang to some extent in my idea. not a bad perosn, equally devoted to his values as christ, but adamant against martyrdom to the extent of willing armageddon to avoid pre-mature death.

Thanks, both of you, for shining a light on this (it took me some time to dig yours, Tbombz  ).
So, as in many religious debates, this is just another example of interpretation, right? I'm always fascinated about how sensitive religious/fundamentalist/dogmatic people can react, when someone has another point of view on things, esp the fundamental ones like the explanation of our existence, moral issues and so on. Can't they move one, and accept that not everyone share the same beliefs? Why is this so hard, just another ego-thing?

[Archer77]

Guys, there almost certainly was a Jesus. The same thing for the Prophet Muhammad. There is no way you create millions of followers without having some root of truth.

Damn, then at the same time I look to the ancient gods. How did so many people believe in them? I know part of it was to explain away the natural phenomenon that they did not comprehend. Yet we can compare Jesus's bible exploits to that of a Zeus.

My opininion= the bible is a fairy tale. Jesus as a man can be respected.

Jesus's contribution to human consciousness is immeasurable.   

[OTHstrong]

No they aren't derivatives of ptolemies work.  You're argument is a very common one employed by Christian apologists and has been refuted many times, often by theologians. I have no dog in this fight.  My whole point was, the evidence for a historical Jesus is thin.  This shouldnt matter to the faithful at all.

you just stirred off topic with a silly attack, stick with the program bro. You just contributed nothing towards your argument.

List the people and the quotes from them and I will tell you what year these people lived in to prove my point.

BTW I think those Christian groups are hypocrites and close minded, sorry don`t gather info from there ever

[NarcissisticDeity]

[MP]

Y2K

Heaven's Gate Hale–Bopp comet cult

End of the world December 21, 2012

Obama is the antichrist

Next?

[Griffith]

My theory is that Jesus was absolutely real. He was a good man that came around at the perfect point in history. I'm sure that he became immensley popular. Something that Rome would have hated.

Jesus was a martyr. Like Martin Luther King jr. Remember guys, time has a way of making gods of men.  Imagine Mr. King's legacy amongst African Americans in 200, 500, 1,000 years?  

Jesus was the ultimate trendsetter.

Yes, I believe Jesus was real as well.

But for the Romans he was insignificant, I think the local Roman leadership viewed it as a domestic dispute between the Jews and carried out the requests of the local religious leaders for crucifxion in order to placate them.

[King Shizzo]

Jesus was a regional phenomenon of very little renown.  During this period the region was overrun with messianic figures from various religous sects of which Jesus was one.   The only threat he posed was to the existing Jewish religious institutions of his day.  To the Romans, he was as significant as an ant.

I do not agree with this. If, the story of Jesus is to be believed in any capacity, it would end in his crucifixion by the hands of Pontius Pilate. All of that other magical shit is pure fantasy.

If Jesus really existed, he created a movement (much like Martin Luther King Jr.) and was feared for it.

[Archer77]

you just stirred off topic with a silly attack, stick with the program bro. You just contributed nothing towards your argument.

List the people and the quotes from them and I will tell you what year these people lived in to prove my point.

BTW I think those Christian groups are hypocrites and close minded, sorry don`t gather info from there ever

I'm not going to do your work for you. You put forth an argument that you heard somewhere else and now you have to do the research necessary to prove it right or wrong.   You're obviously becoming upset and I didn't intend for that to happen.  You have an emotional investment in being Jesus that I dont have.  I never attack anyone.

[King Shizzo]

I'm not going to do your work for you. You put forth an argument that you heard somewhere else and now you have to do the research necessary to prove it right or wrong.   You're obviously becoming upset and I didn't intend for that to happen.  You have an emotional investment in being Jesus that I dont have.  I never attack anyone.

Wow. I could not have said it any better myself. I am not a religious person, yet I do believe Jesus was a real, influential, (maybe even a great) man. However, I have never taken the bible seriously.

[OTHstrong]

No it doesn't

sure it does

5 Caesars of the Roman empire

Ptolemy

Greek rule

Persian empire and the acheadmenid dynasty

Darius
Xerxes
Cyrus

Babylonian Rule

King Nebuchadnezzar

Assyrian rule

Essarhaddon
Sennacherib
Sargon
Tiglath Pilaser

King David and King Solomon

Egyptian and Egyptian Pharaohs

Wars
Revolutions
Conquests
and everything in between is found in the Bible.

That is over 1000 years of extensive historical facts that him been verified through outside sources and archaeology.

150 Biblical cities have been verified to exist, over 200 Biblical characters have been accepted by University professors.

Sorry bro, but no ancient text even comes close as an accurate historical narrative.

[NarcissisticDeity]

sure it does

5 Caesars of the Roman empire

Ptolemy

Greek rule

Persian empire and the acheadmenid dynasty

Darius
Xerxes
Cyrus

Babylonian Rule

King Nebuchadnezzar

Assyrian rule

Essarhaddon
Sennacherib
Sargon
Tiglath Pilaser

King David and King Solomon

Egyptian and Egyptian Pharaohs

Wars
Revolutions
Conquests
and everything in between is found in the Bible.

That is over 1000 years of extensive historical facts that him been verified through outside sources and archaeology.

150 Biblical cities have been verified to exist, over 200 Biblical characters have been accepted by University professors.

Sorry bro, but no ancient text even comes close as an accurate historical narrative.

Yes it contains facts however it's not proof hence why religion is based on belief. What about all the contradictions? like the imaginary Roman census that Jesus' parents had to attend which there is NO Roman record of? I could go on but you get the point.

[King Shizzo]

Really guys? Santa Claus was proven real! If Santa Claus can have such an important role in our lives, why not Jesus?  

Look at how the legend of St. Nicholas has changed within a few hundred years.

Jesus = Santa Claus. I am not shitting you. In fact, if any publishers want to contact me via pm.... I'm sure we can have a best seller here.

[OTHstrong]

I'm not going to do your work for you. You put forth an argument that you heard somewhere else and now you have to do the research necessary to prove it right or wrong.   You're obviously becoming upset and I didn't intend for that to happen.  You have an emotional investment in being Jesus that I dont have.  I never attack anyone.

not upset at all, you are not proving nothing as I consider this a debate, but maybe you decided I was right and you are wrong and decided to opt out. The information I a have presented I gathered in University by a University professor in a University class as a University student.

In fact the direct quotes from the history professor ( who hated Christians BTW) was ``The only historical documentation on Alexander is from Ptolemy, every other work came later or derived from Ptolemy.``

You will not do the work for me??? LMAO, so why debate if you are just going to fold and cop out.

[OTHstrong]

Yes it contains facts however it's not proof hence why religion is based on belief. What about all the contradictions? like the imaginary Roman census that Jesus' parents had to attend which there is NO Roman record of? I could go on but you get the point.

That is a different argument for another day. I am only addressing your comment the way I understood it. The guy said the Bible is the biggest history book and you took the opposition. To me a historical Narrative that takes place over 1000 year span and include 200 historical verified figures and 150 verified cities is indeed the biggest history book out there from antequity.

Does this prove in anyway that Jesus walked on water? obviously not, but that was not my point.

[King Shizzo]

There is actual history, and then there is legendary shit. Man has always been a man. Stories are meant to last the test of time.

The fact that we are even arguing this topic, makes every ancient historian a winner.

[Griffith]

Many, many coins my friend. Which indicates a ruler with a world-wide currency system. Many things of Alexander were surely exaggerated. However, I believe he was a fantastic military general who conquered much of the known world at the time. How could anyone argue the fighting between his generals after Alexander's death? There were documented dynasties that can be traced back to Alexander's court.

I agree.

[Archer77]

not upset at all, you are not proving nothing as I consider this a debate, but maybe you decided I was right and you are wrong and decided to opt out. The information I a have presented I gathered in University by a University professor in a University class as a University student.

In fact the direct quotes from the history professor ( who hated Christians BTW) was ``The only historical documentation on Alexander is from Ptolemy, every other work came later or derived from Ptolemy.``

You will not do the work for me??? LMAO, so why debate if you are just going to fold and cop out.

No, you dragged me into a conversation about Alexander when my original comment related to the historical Jesus. There are no creditable sources for the existence of Jesus outside the gospels.  There are references to Alexander from other sources other than Ptolemy.  But even if there weren't, Plotemy is a far more creditable source than the gospels.  The writers had an investment in the gospels.

[funk51]

wiggs, have you had some kind of mental breakdown these past few months ? i dunno, i never had you down for this much of a mad, tinfoil hatter.. am i missing something 

get ready.

[OTHstrong]

No, you dragged me into a conversation about Alexander when my original comment related to the historical Jesus. There are no creditable sources for the existence of Jesus outside the gospels.  There are references to Alexander from other sources other than Ptolemy.  But even if there weren't, Plotemy is a far more creditable source than the gospels.  The writers had an investment in the gospels.

Josephus is just as credible as anyone, if he was not then University professors who are atheist would not use him as a historical reference and they do, in fact historians around the world at every major University use him.

[King Shizzo]

No, you dragged me into a conversation about Alexander when my original comment related to the historical Jesus. There are no creditable sources for the existence of Jesus outside the gospels.  There are references to Alexander from other sources other than Ptolemy.  But even if there weren't, Plotemy is a far more creditable source than the gospels.  The writers had an investment in the gospels.

Holy shit. You have summed up  religion in 4 words.

RELIGION IS AN INVESTMENT.

[Archer77]

Josephus is just as credible as anyone, if he was not then University professors who are atheist would not use them as a historical reference and they do, in fact historians around the world at every major University use him.

His references to Jesus are believed to have been altered.  They didnt even appear in his writings until 100 years after his death.  They don't fit contextually either. A Jew like jophephus would never have called Jesus the Christ.

[OTHstrong]

His references to Jesus are believed to have been altered.  They didnt even appear in his writings until 100 years after his death.  They don't fit contextually either. A Jew like jophephus would never have called Jesus the Christ.

And you say I gather my info from conspiracy theorist and biased Christian groups, lmao. 

[King Shizzo]

Here is a gem. Nobody ever wins these debates.