Niacin Flush...

[Borracho]

Saw this kid at the gym looking like a lobster so I asked him if he went to the beach...laughs and says no he just took some niacin. Says its a vasodilator, gives me a pill and within 5 minutes I start burning up. Holy shit, I'm feeling like I'm gonna have a heart attack and itching like a crack head. Workout was a bit too uncomfortable to notice an increase in pump...

I'm not the type to take something without reading up on it first but being that its just a b vitamin I said what the hell. So apparently this stuff improves hdl and lowers ldl, helps rid the body of toxins, promotes healthy skin and joint health among other benefits.

There are some formulas that are "flush free" but I'm not sure if some health benefits would be diminished. From my experience I would start off with the lowest dose if you get the regular stuff with the flush cause it can feel quite overwhelming....

[Montague]

Some folks only get that flush the first few times using niacin, with the flush/tingling sensation subsiding thereafter.

[Borracho]

Some folks only get that flush the first few times using niacin, with the flush/tingling sensation subsiding thereafter.

Yup.

If anyone decides to try this start off on lower doses and work your way up. It can be very uncomfortable.

[njflex]

Yup.

If anyone decides to try this start off on lower doses and work your way up. It can be very uncomfortable.

hated niacin ..

[calfzilla]

I have this thermite if I sometimes take, it has niacin. Usually I just take 1 pill but one day I took 2 (as directed) and I got the flush. It kinda freaked me out at first because I wasn't sure what was causing it and im a little prone to anxiety, then remembered I took two pills with niacin. It goes away pretty soon though.

[Necrosis]

Don't take too much niacin, it's hepatotoxic and the flusing is vasodialation but also some histaminergic activity.

However, it's the absolute best HDL increasing agent we have.

[Borracho]

Don't take too much niacin, it's hepatotoxic and the flusing is vasodialation but also some histaminergic activity.

However, it's the absolute best HDL increasing agent we have.

How much would be too much?

The histamine activity is interesting....it's what causes the itchyness right?

What are the dangers with the histamine activity and would benadryl negate this?

[Princess L]

Don't take too much niacin, it's hepatotoxic and the flusing is vasodialation but also some histaminergic activity.

However, it's the absolute best HDL increasing agent we have.

I'm not up to speed on this, but I thought I read (relatively recently - a year or so) that has been dis-proven

Edit:  This is what I heard. http://host.madison.com/news/local/ask/dr-paster/dr-zorba-paster-niacin-and-cholesterol/article_f8254bd8-7387-5da3-83fb-d1ec80789e56.html

[Dago_Joe]

There are more convenient just as effective methods for increasing HDL and lowering LDL.  I had a health screening done at work and the nurse was shocked to see my hdl so low her meter couldn't read it and my ldl so high it also couldn't be read accurately on her shitty little handheld meter!!  I was on a heavy cycle at the time and eating gh15 style with lots or reeses ice cream    Anyways, I started taking 8 grams of high quality fish oil caps daily and my levels were back to normal within 3 months!!  I actually was shocked because i thought it was all hype, but fish oil does miracles for cholesterol.  And you don't end up looking like markus ruhl after eating a chinese buffet and smoking a carton of camels ie lobster face.

[Necrosis]

There are more convenient just as effective methods for increasing HDL and lowering LDL.  I had a health screening done at work and the nurse was shocked to see my hdl so low her meter couldn't read it and my ldl so high it also couldn't be read accurately on her shitty little handheld meter!!  I was on a heavy cycle at the time and eating gh15 style with lots or reeses ice cream    Anyways, I started taking 8 grams of high quality fish oil caps daily and my levels were back to normal within 3 months!!  I actually was shocked because i thought it was all hype, but fish oil does miracles for cholesterol.  And you don't end up looking like markus ruhl after eating a chinese buffet and smoking a carton of camels ie lobster face.

Fish oil increase LDL cholesterol, and it's only impact on lipids is lowering triglycerides.

[Necrosis]

I'm not up to speed on this, but I thought I read (relatively recently - a year or so) that has been dis-proven

Edit:  This is what I heard. http://host.madison.com/news/local/ask/dr-paster/dr-zorba-paster-niacin-and-cholesterol/article_f8254bd8-7387-5da3-83fb-d1ec80789e56.html

Long acting niacin is not niacin but niacin hexoniconate. The data is one million percent against his claim, niacin has many many benefits for CVD amongst being the best HDL increaser(independent risk factor and variable in Chol ratios), lowering LDL, anti-thrombosis, anti-inflammatory effects etc.

His comparison of side effects is equally laughable. Statins have some pretty serious side effects, he even lists death as a side effect WTF. An essential nutrients side effect is death when used within reasonable ranges? does that sound logical? what about the fact that it's water soluble and pretty ubiquitous?

Statins are good drugs, Rhabdo and liver damage are pretty serious sides that actually occur with normal therapeutic dosages.

Niacin's limiting factor and why I would rather a statin is the flush and paresthenia. I also note increased histamine from niacin as it likely destabilizes mast cells and would exacerbate that in sensitive individuals.

He also cherry picked a claim that long acting was not effective, never mind the studies that show this over and over(some dispute him). We know long acting niacin is liver toxic and less effective then niacin. Why he choose to switch between the two, namely when it suited his purpose it's almost like he has an agenda.

[Dago_Joe]

Fish oil increase LDL cholesterol, and it's only impact on lipids is lowering triglycerides.

That's weird because my ldl decreased big time and my hdl increased.  My doctor even asked me if I went vegetarian or something because it was a significant change.  Huh, guess I was wrong.  Still, fish oils are not a bad thing to take for overall health.

[benchmstr]

that happens everytime i take the shit...sometimes its funny though

bench

[Necrosis]

That's weird because my ldl decreased big time and my hdl increased.  My doctor even asked me if I went vegetarian or something because it was a significant change.  Huh, guess I was wrong.  Still, fish oils are not a bad thing to take for overall health.

Not at all. The only approved medical use for esterified fish oils is high triglycerides. I too have noticed the opposite but I suspect this has to do with epigenetics and individual gene expression. Some people avoid this effect with fish oil phospholipid compounds.

[f450]

Not at all. The only approved medical use for esterified fish oils is high triglycerides. I too have noticed the opposite but I suspect this has to do with epigenetics and individual gene expression. Some people avoid this effect with fish oil phospholipid compounds.

examples of these? Krill oil?

[Necrosis]

ya krill oil

[Necrosis]

How much would be too much?

The histamine activity is interesting....it's what causes the itchyness right?

What are the dangers with the histamine activity and would benadryl negate this?

I would say anything over a couple grams, 3 or so would be venturing into toxicity.

The itching is the same but different mechanism. Vasodialation is the most likely culprit.

No dangers of histamine, in the stomach it would increase your acid, reflux etc. in the body you would feel inflamed, congested etc. however this passes and is dose dependent.

[Borracho]

One more thing about niacin that's been bugging me necrosis is that it inhibits fat breakdown. Don't know to what extent and if it would be best to avoid during periods of dieting...  

[Montague]

One more thing about niacin that's been bugging me necrosis is that it inhibits fat breakdown. Don't know to what extent and if it would be best to avoid during periods of dieting...  

You may find some of this info useful: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=426775.0

[Borracho]

You may find some of this info useful: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=426775.0

Thanks montague.

That adipose tissue breakdown inhibition is really bothersome since I don't consume enough dietary fats and carbs when dieting to have a positive effect on their metabolism. I was taking this stuff but after a little bit more reading I think its best if I stopped taking it.

[Montague]

Thanks montague.

That adipose tissue breakdown inhibition is really bothersome since I don't consume enough dietary fats and carbs when dieting to have a positive effect on their metabolism. I was taking this stuff but after a little bit more reading I think its best if I stopped taking it.

I wouldn't bother with it.

[WOOO]

so i bought a bottle of niacin... what's the normal amount for a flush? is it preferable to use it on lifting days only or daily? is there value in not taking for period of time?

[Necrosis]

so i bought a bottle of niacin... what's the normal amount for a flush? is it preferable to use it on lifting days only or daily? is there value in not taking for period of time?

If the flush is your goal periodic dosing would be ideal, as tolerance does build to that effect. I would say1-1.5 grams and you will be in pleasure town.

[Borracho]

so i bought a bottle of niacin... what's the normal amount for a flush? is it preferable to use it on lifting days only or daily? is there value in not taking for period of time?

First time a 500mg tablet was more than enough for me.

Like necrosis said, tolerance builds if you're going for the flush so don't do it every day. Once tolerance builds you can increase that 500mg dose or stop taking it for a few weeks.

Btw, another thing I dislike about it after more reading is that it can cause insulin resistance. I don't know to what extent but I'm already somewhat resistant so I don't wanna make it worse.

[Borracho]

Forgot to add that taken on an empty stomach the flush will be almost instant. When I take it with food it wasn't as pronounced and would take a lot longer.