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Author Topic: how much injectable gear for kidney/liver issues  (Read 1621 times)
shrek
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« on: August 12, 2013, 10:30:23 AM »

If some one were to juice off and on for 4 years and mainly taking injectables . What are the risk of severe damage
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BodyMachine
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2013, 11:55:45 AM »

Don't know about 4 yrs and each react differently but id watch sgot, sgpt, ldl , hdl, rbc, bun, and monitor ur bp
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ESFitness
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2013, 12:00:02 PM »

If some one were to juice off and on for 4 years and mainly taking injectables . What are the risk of severe damage

very low. even in large doses.

I think the greater risk is long term cardiovascular damage.

Stay away from Advil and keep your bp in a decent range, as well as your resting heart-rate, and you should be fine.

After all the shit I've abused over the years, I was amazed to find my heart in perfect condition when I had a full cardio-workup done not long ago.

The effects of alcohol are far, far worse on liver function than AAS... and even then, the liver will recover (provided you don't somehow acquire Hep a/b/c, or develop cirrhosis).

If your bp is high.. take something for it. Lisinopril (sp? lol) or captopril or catapress or whatever... and don't use/abuse diuretics, and your kidneys should be fine.
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shrek
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2013, 01:04:34 PM »

For some reason since I have had a new look on life I've been freaking out and wondering what all I have done inside
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shrek
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2013, 04:04:14 PM »

Understandable , but let's see if there is a guestamit as in if you are pumping x amount over x amount of time there's a high/low chance of developing problems
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2013, 04:21:48 PM »

well, obviously the best is to have it monitored on individual basis all few months.

injectables can elevate liver values alot, even small doses.

have it checked frequently,there is not a rule that fits everyone.

es fitness is a steroid dealer, not exactly the person id listen on this matter.

I thought orals elevate liver values and that injectables are relatively harmless since they bypass liver metabolism? One of the main reasons why I choose to only to do injectables lol.
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2013, 04:26:04 PM »

Understandable , but let's see if there is a guestamit as in if you are pumping x amount over x amount of time there's a high/low chance of developing problems

Everyone is different bro.. I stopped using because I don't want to fuck my heart up in the long run.. You know me and I use to take a lot of shit.. Good thing was my blood work would return to normal after a month of being off.. Keep getting blood work done on and off and get a full cardio work up
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ESFitness
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2013, 10:03:46 PM »

well, obviously the best is to have it monitored on individual basis all few months.

injectables can elevate liver values alot, even small doses.

have it checked frequently,there is not a rule that fits everyone.

es fitness is a steroid dealer, not exactly the person id listen on this matter.

... and somebody who's actually DONE, for better or worse, a lot of what is asked about on here... you skinny chain-smoking dolphin-teeth fat faced jersey-shore/'situation' wannabe.
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 07:50:06 AM »

4 years on and off, you shouldn't worry. If you feel worried or something sparked your anxiety go to your general practitioneer or look one up and ask for a physical - ALL insurance companies cover it at NO cost so you won't be paying a dime for it only the doctor's visit, you can even tell him you want a full workup on the blood tests, leave nothing out.

Most cases of experienceing the bad androgenic effects are from oral use and people that use recreational drugs.


Case 1.  Cholestasis due to anabolic steroid use.
[Modified from:  Singh C, Bishop P, Wilson R. Extreme hyperbilirubinemia associated with the use of anabolic steroids, health/nutritional supplements and ethanol: response to ursodeoxycholic acid treatment. Am J Gastroenterol 1996; 91: 783-5. PubMed Citation]
 
A 24 year old body builder developed pruritus and jaundice having taken various anabolic steroids for one and a half years.  He was also taking several herbal products and dietary supplements including Ma Huang (6% ephedrine), carnitine and chromium.  He also drank alcohol, estimating his average intake as one case of beer per day for the last year.  He developed dark urine and jaundice and stopped all medications and his alcohol intake promptly.  Despite this, he remained jaundiced for a month and had worsening nausea and weight loss and eventually sought medical care.  He had no history of liver disease or risk factors for viral hepatitis and took no other medications.  On examination, he was muscular and physically fit but deeply jaundiced.  He had an enlarged liver but no rash, fever or splenomegaly.  Laboratory testing showed a total serum bilirubin of 53 mg/dL, but only modest elevations in serum aminotransferase and a normal alkaline phosphatase level (Table).  His prothrombin time was normal.  Tests for hepatitis A, B and C were negative.  Abdominal ultrasound showed no evidence of biliary obstruction.  Liver biopsy was not done.  He was treated symptomatically for pruritus with antihistamines, cholestryamine and ursodiol.  His jaundice gradually improved and pruritus waned.  Six months after the onset of jaundice, he was asymptomatic, had regained most of his weight loss (40 pounds), serum bilirubin was 1.5 mg/dL and serum enzymes were normal.
 
Key Points
Medication:    Anabolic steroids (nandrolone, stanozolol)
Pattern:    Bland cholestasis
Severity:    3+ (jaundice, hospitalization)
Latency:    16 months
Recovery:    0.6 months
Other medications:    Various herbal products and dietary supplements
Laboratory Values
Time After Stopping   
ALT
(U/L)
Alk P
(U/L)
Bilirubin
(mg/dL)
Other
Anabolic agent use for ~1.5 years
6 weeks   237   129   21   
8 weeks   90   121   53   
10 weeks   203   91   51    Ursodiol started
12 weeks   119   81   22   
14 weeks   116   67   8   
4 months   58   50   4   
5 months   33   75   1.5    Asymptomatic
Normal Values   <56   <139   <1.2   



Comment
A very typical case of severe cholestasis due to anabolic steroid use.  Because the steroids were being used without medical supervision, the dose and actual duration of use of each preparation was unclear, but cholestasis usually arises within 4 to 12 weeks of starting a C-17 alkylated androgenic steroid.
The jaundice can be severe and prolonged and accompanied by severe pruritus and marked weight loss.  The serum enzymes are typically minimally elevated except for a short period immediately after stopping therapy.  The pattern of enzyme elevations can be hepatocellular, cholestatic or mixed.  Liver biopsy shows a “bland” cholestasis with minimal inflammation and hepatocellular necrosis.  Ma Huang has also been implicated in cases of drug induced liver injury, but is associated with an acute hepatocellular pattern of injury.

http://livertox.nlm.nih.gov/AndrogenicSteroids.htm

I'm sure DOC could chime in on here and shed some good information.



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a_ahmed
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 01:07:29 PM »

lol at focusing on steroids (although legitimately so 17alkylated) but totally ignoring consuming on average a WHOLE CASE of beer PER DAY.

Da faq...
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2013, 06:13:25 PM »

0
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ESFitness
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2013, 10:01:07 PM »

when i was in my early 20's, i'd drink 1.5-2L of vodka per day... on top of all my steroids. Ended up in the hospital for 10days with pancreatitis, but surprisingly my ast/alt was only in the 240s. I'd known i was sick for a while before i ended up in the hospital, as do most people. you can usually tell/feel when something isn't right. a month later my ast/alt was barely over 100's (still double what 'high' ususally is), and a month after that i was back to normal... liver-wise anyways. During that time I traded my booze for vicodin. doc prescribed it for the pancreatitis, and was getting a couple hundred a month. lol... that's a lot of Tylenol, but liver counts were still pretty 'low' considering what i was doing.... was also on test and probably tren at the same time as well.
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shrek
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2013, 08:53:51 AM »

Well I just got my lab work back and the liver/kidney is fine cholesterol isn't bad could be a lil better , but my thyroid is suppressed ...... does that mean since I'm on T3 its not firing or that the shit I'm taking is bunk
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2013, 08:55:50 AM »

Well I just got my lab work back and the liver/kidney is fine cholesterol isn't bad could be a lil better , but my thyroid is suppressed ...... does that mean since I'm on T3 its not firing or that the shit I'm taking is bunk

Being on any exogenous hormone that mimics a natural one will always suppress it due to the negative feedback loop so id say your.t3 is good
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ESFitness
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2013, 11:28:31 AM »

Well I just got my lab work back and the liver/kidney is fine cholesterol isn't bad could be a lil better , but my thyroid is suppressed ...... does that mean since I'm on T3 its not firing or that the shit I'm taking is bunk

your tsh would be suppressed if you're using t3... and if your tsh is suppressed, your t4 would be low as well.

same way using test or dbol (or any other anabolic) would suppress LH.
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shrek
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2013, 01:33:42 PM »

I thought they would shown the levels in the body , just like they check test levels
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ESFitness
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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2013, 02:57:33 PM »

I thought they would shown the levels in the body , just like they check test levels

I don't think they ususally test for t3.. unless they do a specific thyroid panel.
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Dago_Joe
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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2013, 08:00:45 PM »

well, obviously the best is to have it monitored on individual basis all few months.

injectables can elevate liver values alot, even small doses.

have it checked frequently,there is not a rule that fits everyone.

es fitness is a steroid dealer, not exactly the person id listen on this matter.

Da fuck?  ES is exactly right.  Injectables cause essentially no liver or kidney damage.  The methylation required to resist first pass metabolism is what kills your liver.  Yeah, I know I'm a newb here but I still know what I'm talking about.  In fact, there was a study where the amount of exogenous test that the liver could safely metabolize was tested, can't think of the journal off the top of my head, but I remember it was a ridiculously high amount that can be metabolized with minimal strain on liver enzymes. 
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« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2013, 03:53:12 AM »

I would think that the smart play here is to monitor your blood work and be prepared to drop the AAS if necessary. You can play the odds, but as a bunch of guys have said, everybody is different. I saw guys in college eat dbols like pez candy and have no ill effects. Would I take that "evidence" that orals year round are a good idea?

I understand, getting bloods done frequently is a pain in the ass.

So is a liver transplant.
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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2013, 03:58:15 AM »

If some one were to juice off and on for 4 years and mainly taking injectables . What are the risk of severe damage

People who don't even train get kidney failure so... depends on one's genetic predisposition.
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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2013, 07:42:13 AM »

What are the risk of severe damage

idk, sorry wish i could help you.
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« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2013, 08:03:12 AM »

well cool cool, there is a study, wow.

and then there is reality.

look i dont even wanna go into details with know it all jacks of all trades, my girl is a doctor, now go back and read online studies and believe injectables are totaly safe on the liver.

it makes one feel beter when you tell yourself its all good doesnt it.



Wow, so a legit scientific study means nothing over bro science?  Okee dokee then.  Here is a simple test:  Take 1 gram of injectable Test, then measure liver enzymes.  Take 1 gram of methyltest orals, then measure liver enzymes.  What do you think the result will be?  Also,  I don't need to read legit scientific journal studies to know that injectable drugs cause no liver damage.  I have used 1 gram plus of total gear for years and my liver and kidneys are perfectly normal, not even a tiny difference.  And this is coming from my traditional general practitioner who would shit a brick if he knew what I was taking.  Yet he says my levels are all healthy and not pathogenic at all. 
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shrek
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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2013, 08:07:18 AM »

See I had my blood work done and they came back just fine all they said was my cholesterol could be better which I'm sure it is now since I stopped eating red meat
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« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2013, 04:30:17 PM »

I honestly think that its just smart to get blood tests done before a cycle and if it is a really heavy one during the middle of the cycle to. If you running tren and oral steroids at high dosages it would be wise to get blood work done. Some people have strong genetics for being able to handle toxins others don't. Plus who knows what the fuck else is in the oil that the UGL's are selling. I know some of them test positive for heavy metals and all sorts of shit. So there could be worse things than you think in your steroids that effect your liver and kidneys. I think that's really the only way to be sure you are safe is blood tests. I got one before my cycle I started and am going to get one in a week or 2 to see what my testosterone levels are and to make sure everything is functioning ok. That is one thing I have learned from the TRT patients I talk to on forums is the importance of blood work. And that the cost should be calculated into your cycle.
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« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2013, 04:32:01 PM »

And it is worth the peace of mind. No body likes laying awake at night thinking what the fuck kind of damage have I been doing to my body injecting all this shit and when is the shit going to hit the fan.
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