Author Topic: The Syria Attack - Will it be justified or not? Repercussions?  (Read 65820 times)

EL Mariachi

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #350 on: September 07, 2013, 05:29:46 PM »
Adonis guess what, nobody is fooled by this propaganda anymore, you ll some getbiggers on your side yes, but the people in the world are fed up about the media lies. Its quite obvious the rebels used the chemical weapons, i know you are aware of this, ur not a retard, but its not nice of you spewing this nonsence to the deluded ones.







After being linked by the Drudge Report, Fox News covered an Infowars exclusive story featuring a Syrian rebel admitting to using chemical weapons in order to follow Osama Bin Laden’s mantra of killing women and children.

The Fox News story concerned the overwhelming amount of evidence that the Obama administration would be backing terrorists who have been responsible for atrocities if it went ahead with an attack on Syria.


Lawmakers who were early champions of a U.S. strike on Assad regime targets in Syria have stayed mum as video clips emerge appearing to show opposition soldiers both killing unarmed men and indicating they have possession of chemical weapons.

The latest, a video on InfoWars.com, purported to show a rebel militant in Syria claiming to have chemical weapons, and saying he’s willing to target women and children. The video, which FoxNews.com has not been able to independently authenticate, only adds to the confusion over which side has the moral high ground and the reasons for U.S. military action in Syria.

The Fox report also links to a separate video which shows rebel commanders discussing chemical weapons. “The message is if the West doesn’t act, we (the rebels) too will have no red lines, and will use chemical weapons,” according to an analysis by the Middle East Media Research Institute.






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Posted on Thursday, September 5, 2013
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Russia gave UN 100-page report in July blaming Syrian rebels for Aleppo sarin attack






BERLIN —  Russia says a deadly March sarin attack in an Aleppo suburb was carried out by Syrian rebels, not forces loyal to President Bashar Assad, and it has delivered a 100-page report laying out its evidence to the United Nations.

A statement posted on the Russian Foreign Ministry website late Wednesday said the report included detailed scientific analysis of samples that Russian technicians collected at the site of the alleged attack, Khan al Asal in northern Syria. The attack killed 26 people.

A U.N. spokesman, Farhan Haq, confirmed that Russia delivered the report in July.
      
The report itself was not released. But the statement drew a pointed comparison between what it said was the scientific detail of the report and the far shorter intelligence summaries that the United States, Britain and France have released to justify their assertion that the Syrian government launched chemical weapons against Damascus suburbs on Aug. 21. The longest of those summaries, by the French, ran nine pages. Each relies primarily on circumstantial evidence to make its case, and they disagree with one another on some details, including the number of people who died in the attack.

The Russian statement warned the United States and its allies not to conduct a military strike against Syria until the United Nations had completed a similarly detailed scientific study into the Aug. 21 attack. It charged that what it called the current “hysteria” about a possible military strike in the West was similar to the false claims and poor intelligence that preceded the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Russia said its investigation of the March 19 incident was conducted under strict protocols established by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the international agency that governs adherence to treaties prohibiting the use of chemical weapons. It said samples that Russian technicians had collected had been sent to OPCW-certified laboratories in Russia.

“The Russian report is specific,” the ministry statement said. “It is a scientific and technical document.”

The Russian statement said Russian officials had broken the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons’ code of silence on such probes only because Western nations appear to be “preparing the ground for military action” in retaliation for the Aug. 21 incident.

A U.N. team spent four days late last month investigating the Aug. 21 incident. The samples it collected from the site and alleged victims of the attack are currently being examined at the chemical weapons organization’s labs in Europe. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has urged the United States to delay any strike until after the results of that investigation are known. But U.S. officials have dismissed the U.N. probe, saying it won’t tell them anything they don’t already know.

White House spokeswoman Caitlin Hayden said U.S. officials were unmoved by the Russian report and held the Assad government responsible for both the Khan al Asal attack in March and the Aug. 21 attack outside Damascus.

“We have studied the Russian report but have found no reason to change our assessment,” she said.

Independent chemical weapons experts contacted by McClatchy said they were not familiar with the report and had not read the Russian statement, which was posted as Secretary of State John Kerry was appearing before the House Foreign Affairs Committee to make the Obama administration’s case for a retaliatory strike on Syria as punishment for the August attack. But they were cautious about the details made public in the Russian statement.

Richard Guthrie, formerly project leader of the Chemical and Biological Warfare Project of the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, said the Russian statement on the makeup of the sarin found at Khan al Asal, which the Russians indicated was not military grade, might reflect only that “there are a lot of different ways to make sarin.”

He added: “The messy mix described by the Russians might also be the result of an old sarin stock being used. Sarin degrades (the molecules break up) over time and this would explain a dirty mix.”

He also said there could be doubts about the Russian conclusion that the rockets that delivered the sarin in the March 19 incident were not likely to have come from Syrian military stocks because of their use of RDX, an explosive that is also known as hexogen and T4.

“Militaries don’t tend to use it because it’s too expensive,” Guthrie said. He added in a later email, however, that it’s not inconceivable that the Syrian military would use RDX “if the government side was developing a semi-improvised short-range rocket” and “if there happened to be a stock available.”

“While I would agree that it would be unlikely for a traditional, well-planned short-range rocket development program to use RDX in that role, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that, as the Syrian government did not seem to have an earlier short-range rocket program, it may have been developing rockets with some haste and so using materials that are at hand,” he wrote.

Jean Pascal Zanders, a leading expert on chemical weapons who until recently was a senior research fellow at the European Union’s Institute for Security Studies, questioned a Russian assertion that the sarin mix appeared to be a Western World War II vintage.

“The Western Allies were not aware of the nerve agents until after the occupation of Germany,” he wrote in an email. “The USA, for example, struggled with the sarin (despite having some of the German scientists) until the 1950s, when the CW program expanded considerably.”

The Russian Foreign Ministry posted the statement shortly after Russian President Vladimir Putin had asked a Russian interviewer what the American reaction would be if evidence showed that Syrian rebels, not the Assad regime, had been behind a chemical weapons attack.

The report dealt with an incident that occurred March 19 in Khan al Asal, outside Aleppo, in which 26 people died and 86 were sickened. It was that incident that the U.N. team now probing the Aug. 21 attack was originally assigned to investigate, and the Russian statement noted that the investigation had been sidetracked by the sudden focus on the later incident.

Haq, the U.N. spokesman, acknowledged that the most recent attack “has pushed the investigation of the Aleppo incident to the back burner for now.” But he said that “the inspectors will get back to it as soon as is possible.”

The statement’s summary of the report said that neither the munitions nor the poison gas in the Khan al Asal attack appeared to fit what is possessed by the Syrian government. The statement said Russian investigators studied the site, sent the materials they found to study to the Russian laboratories of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, and followed agreed-upon United Nations investigation standards.

According to the statement, the report said the shell “was not regular Syrian army ammunition but was an artisan-type similar to unguided rocket projectiles produced in the north of Syria by the so-called gang ‘Bashair An-Nasr.’”

The Russian analysis found soil and shell samples contained a sarin gas “not synthesized in an industrial environment,” the statement said. The report said the chemical mix did not appear to be a modern version of the deadly agent but was closer to those “used by Western states for producing chemical weapons during World War II.”

The statement said the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons team had examined Syrian soldiers injured in the March attack and said that no reaction to the more recent alleged chemical account should be considered without also considering that the rebels, too, have used chemical weapons.

“It is obvious that any objective investigation of the incident on Aug. 21 in East Ghouta is impossible without considering the circumstances of the March attack,” the statement said. Ghouta is the area near Damascus where the Aug. 21 attack took place.

(Lesley Clark contributed to this report from St. Petersburg, Russia.)
 

    
Email: mschofield@mcclatchydc.com Twitter: @mattschodcnews


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Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/05/201268/russia-releases-100-page-report.html#.UivEddXCRD8#storylink=cpy




O.Z.

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #351 on: September 07, 2013, 05:35:09 PM »
I think its pretty obvious at this point.

I guess you never get bored of trolling

EL Mariachi

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #352 on: September 07, 2013, 05:37:35 PM »
High-Level U.S. Intelligence Officers: Syrian Government Didn’t Launch Chemical Weapons


  

  

Numerous Intelligence Officials Question Administration’s Claims

Washington’s Blog
 September 7, 2013  

Preface: Without doubt, intelligence is being manipulated to justify war against Syria.  Here, here,here, here and here.

Without doubt, the Syrian rebels had access to chemical weapons … and have apparently used them in the recent past.

Associated Press reported last week:

An intercept of Syrian military officials discussing the strike was among low-level staff, with no direct evidence tying the attack back to an Assad insider or even a senior Syrian commander, the officials said.

So while Secretary of State John Kerry said Monday that links between the attack and the Assad government are “undeniable,” U.S. intelligence officials are not so certain that the suspected chemical attack was carried out on Assad’s orders, or even completely sure it was carried out by government forces, the officials said.

***

Another possibility that officials would hope to rule out: that stocks had fallen out of the government’s control and were deployed by rebels in a callous and calculated attempt to draw the West into the war.

Reuters notes today:

With the United States threatening to attack Syria, U.S. and allied intelligence services are still trying to work out who ordered the poison gas attack on rebel-held neighborhoods near Damascus.

No direct link to President Bashar al-Assad or his inner circle has been publicly demonstrated, and some U.S. sources say intelligence experts are not sure whether the Syrian leader knew of the attack before it was launched or was only informed about it afterward.

Indeed, numerous intelligence officers say that the rebels likely carried out the August 21st attack.

For example, the Daily Caller reports:

The Obama administration has selectively used intelligence to justify military strikes on Syria, former military officers with access to the original intelligence reports say, in a manner that goes far beyond what critics charged the Bush administration of doing in the run-up to the 2003 Iraq war.

According to these officers, who served in top positions in the United States, Britain, France, Israel, and Jordan, a Syrian military communication intercepted by Israel’s famed Unit 8200 electronic intelligence outfit has been doctored so that it leads a reader to just the opposite conclusion reached by the original report.

***

The doctored report was picked up on Israel’s Channel 2 TV  on Aug. 24, then by Focus magazine in Germany, the Times of Israel, and eventually by The Cable  in Washington, DC.

According to the doctored report, the chemical attack was carried out by the 155th Brigade of the 4th Armored Division of the Syrian Army, an elite unit commanded by Maher al-Assad, the president’s brother.

However, the original communication intercepted by Unit 8200 between a major in command of the rocket troops assigned to the 155th Brigade of the 4th Armored Division, and the general staff, shows just the opposite.

The general staff officer asked the major if he was responsible for the chemical weapons attack. From the tone of the conversation, it was clear that “the Syrian general staff were out of their minds with panic that an unauthorized strike had been launched by the 155th Brigade in express defiance of their instructions,” the former officers say.

According to the transcript of the original Unit 8200 report, the major “hotly denied firing any of his missiles” and invited the general staff to come and verify that all his weapons were present.

The report contains a note at the end that the major was interrogated by Syrian intelligence for three days, then returned to command of his unit. “All of his weapons were accounted for,” the report stated.

***

An Egyptian intelligence report describes a meeting in Turkey between military intelligence officials from Turkey and Qatar and Syrian rebels. One of the participants states, “there will be a game changing event on August 21st” that will “bring the U.S. into a bombing campaign” against the Syrian regime.

The chemical weapons strike on Moudhamiya, an area under rebel control, took place on August 21. “Egyptian military intelligence insists it was a combined Turkish/Qatar/rebel  false flag operation,” said a source familiar with the report.

[A "false flag" is a ploy for starting war which has been used by governments around the world for thousands of years.]

Agents provacateurs are as old as warfare itself. What better than a false flag attack, staged by al Qaeda and its al Nusra front allies in Syria, to drag the United States into a war?

And 12 very high-level former intelligence officials wrote the following memorandum to Obama today:

We regret to inform you that some of our former co-workers are telling us, categorically, that contrary to the claims of your administration, the most reliable intelligence shows that Bashar al-Assad was NOT responsible for the chemical incident that killed and injured Syrian civilians on August 21, and that British intelligence officials also know this. In writing this brief report, we choose to assume that you have not been fully informed because your advisers decided to afford you the opportunity for what is commonly known as “plausible denial.”

***

There is a growing body of evidence from numerous sources in the Middle East — mostly affiliated with the Syrian opposition and its supporters — providing a strong circumstantial case that the August 21 chemical incident was a pre-planned provocation by the Syrian opposition and its Saudi and Turkish supporters. The aim is reported to have been to create the kind of incident that would bring the United States into the war.

According to some reports, canisters containing chemical agent were brought into a suburb of Damascus, where they were then opened. Some people in the immediate vicinity died; others were injured.

We are unaware of any reliable evidence that a Syrian military rocket capable of carrying a chemical agent was fired into the area. In fact, we are aware of no reliable physical evidence to support the claim that this was a result of a strike by a Syrian military unit with expertise in chemical weapons.

In addition, we have learned that on August 13-14, 2013, Western-sponsored opposition forces in Turkey started advance preparations for a major, irregular military surge. Initial meetings between senior opposition military commanders and Qatari, Turkish and U.S. intelligence officials took place at the converted Turkish military garrison in Antakya, Hatay Province, now used as the command center and headquarters of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and their foreign sponsors.

Senior opposition commanders who came from Istanbul pre-briefed the regional commanders on an imminent escalation in the fighting due to “a war-changing development,” which, in turn, would lead to a U.S.-led bombing of Syria.

At operations coordinating meetings at Antakya, attended by senior Turkish, Qatari and U.S. intelligence officials as well as senior commanders of the Syrian opposition, the Syrians were told that the bombing would start in a few days. Opposition leaders were ordered to prepare their forces quickly to exploit the U.S. bombing, march into Damascus, and remove the Bashar al-Assad government

The Qatari and Turkish intelligence officials assured the Syrian regional commanders that they would be provided with plenty of weapons for the coming offensive. And they were. A weapons distribution operation unprecedented in scope began in all opposition camps on August 21-23. The weapons were distributed from storehouses controlled by Qatari and Turkish intelligence under the tight supervision of U.S. intelligence officers.


This article was posted: Saturday, September 7, 2013 at 5:34 am

Tags: foreign affairs, government corruption, war

Pray_4_War

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #353 on: September 07, 2013, 05:39:48 PM »
::)

Its not about Obama and its not "how convenient" there is a video.  This is the right thing to do.  Chemical attacks HAVE to be punished or else what is the point of having an International Ban on them?

Also, its time that Syria is weakened and that Iran gets the message.  

It absolutely is about Obama and salvaging his credibility.  He realizes as do most people what a huge blow to his Presidency it would be if he doesn't get his way on this.  Also, the video coming out now is no accident.  Right now he doesn't have the votes and he doesn't have the support of the American people.  They are trying to use emotion to sway people his way, period.

Nobody, including Obama, gave a fuck about the Iraqi people.  Nobody cared that Sadaam gassed the Kurds.  He railed against Bush now he's doing the exact same thing.  He's even using some of the exact arguments that Bush used.   Disgusting hypocrisy.

How far are will willing to go in this?  What about Russia, China or Iran?  As we should have learned by the war in Iraq you shouldn't start conflicts if you aren't willing to fight to the last man.  Optional wars are not in the best interests of the American people.  We need to stop pretending to be the world police and start focusing on ourselves.  If we continue to weaken our military and our economy we aren't going to be any good to anyone.  

Pray_4_War

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #354 on: September 07, 2013, 05:40:54 PM »
yeah but who to punish?

and how many colateral damage civilian death will there be from the "punishment"?

first they said 2 days attack, by now they say 6months.

They are also discussing "regime change".  Sound familiar?

thebrink

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Re: (video) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #355 on: September 07, 2013, 05:43:41 PM »
Very hard to watch.

does a civilian like you have proof of who did this?

EL Mariachi

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #356 on: September 07, 2013, 05:44:59 PM »
Sure sure adonis iran needs to be weakened, what about the us allay saudi-arabia? Its infected with muslim-radicals that will chop your head off if you say ur atheist, plus saudi arabia providing chemicals to the rebels in syria. The muslims are just being used in these wars, chinese are very smart people, they know they llo be next if this continues, these british/israel/us fashist states will be stopped, you can count on that.

Natural Man

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Re: The Syria Attack - Will it be justified or not?
« Reply #357 on: September 07, 2013, 05:46:32 PM »
The real truth -
 it is not about human lifes, terrorism, 'freedom', 'democracy', whatever. It's just words they are hiding behind.
 Right now few financial clans are fighting for gaz, for money. Obama, Putin, Asad... name other's are just instruments in their business goals.
 This world is fucked up. Money and consuption are real evil of humanity. World will die in nucklear winter cause of this, someday.
There s always someone somewhere far away, quietly taking care of his garden, tho.

EL Mariachi

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #358 on: September 07, 2013, 05:47:54 PM »
There is no evidence whatsoever syria regime used chemical weapons, they are winning the damn civil war, what a good time to use chemicals  ::).
nobody is buying this shit anymore, 9 % americans are for the war.

The True Adonis

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #359 on: September 07, 2013, 05:48:42 PM »
I guess you never get bored of trolling
Shut the fuck up.

thebrink

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #360 on: September 07, 2013, 05:52:46 PM »
Sure sure adonis iran needs to be weakened, what about the us allay saudi-arabia? Its infected with muslim-radicals that will chop your head off if you say ur atheist, plus saudi arabia providing chemicals to the rebels in syria. The muslims are just being used in these wars, chinese are very smart people, they know they llo be next if this continues, these british/israel/us fashist states will be stopped, you can count on that.

I thought it was the Saudis were the ones paying for this invasion.. ??  ???

dr.chimps

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #361 on: September 07, 2013, 05:52:55 PM »
There is no evidence whatsoever syria regime used chemical weapons, they are winning the damn civil war, what a good time to use chemicals  ::).
nobody is buying this shit anymore, 9 % americans are for the war.
Well, if we don't stand for this we don't stand for anything. Which I think is TA's point. Life is shitty. Let's make it a bit less shitty, is the point.

thebrink

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Re: The Syria Attack - Will it be justified or not?
« Reply #362 on: September 07, 2013, 05:54:35 PM »
LOL @ freeing Syria from a dictator gassing his own people...


you do know that the Syrian people are protesting all over Syria for the US not to attack...


doesnt sound like they want help for anything so tell me again why we are even considering it?




because only a few hundred people were killed by theses weapons (not the 1300+ that was claimed) and assad didn't do it.

EL Mariachi

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #363 on: September 07, 2013, 05:54:43 PM »
Well, if we don't stand for this we don't stand for anything. Which I think is TA's point. Life is shitty. Let's make it a bit less shitty, is the point.

''the first responsibility of every citizen is to question authority'' benjamin franklin

thebrink

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #364 on: September 07, 2013, 05:56:34 PM »
true adonis is truly a scary individual.

The Showstoppa

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #365 on: September 07, 2013, 05:57:29 PM »
Well, if we don't stand for this we don't stand for anything. Which I think is TA's point. Life is shitty. Let's make it a bit less shitty, is the point.

Were you whistling the same tune for the invasion of Iraq? 8)

dr.chimps

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #366 on: September 07, 2013, 05:58:24 PM »
''the first responsibility of every citizen is to question authority'' benjamin franklin
Sure. What a passive response. I'm totally older than you and I'm yelling we should do something/anything.   :-\

dr.chimps

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #367 on: September 07, 2013, 05:59:31 PM »
Were you whistling the same tune for the invasion of Iraq? 8)
No. Good point. Problem was the US infiltration(s) for the last 50-years.  :-\

monstermunch

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #368 on: September 07, 2013, 06:00:48 PM »
This is the right thing to do.  Chemical attacks HAVE to be punished or else what is the point of having an International Ban on them?

So is mass killing okay, as long as its done in a gentlemanly fashion?

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #369 on: September 07, 2013, 06:01:00 PM »
So the Nobel Peace Prize winner did not stop any war and is starting a new one (most likely WW III)?  ;D Well done sir, you deserve the prize  :-X

Hopefully USA dictators and liars will get punched and KO this time...


O.Z.

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #370 on: September 07, 2013, 06:02:02 PM »

The True Adonis

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #371 on: September 07, 2013, 06:02:14 PM »
So is mass killing okay, as long as its done in a gentlemanly fashion?
Its not, but with a Chemical Attack we have the authority to act and we should.

The True Adonis

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EL Mariachi

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #373 on: September 07, 2013, 06:04:34 PM »
Sure. What a passive response. I'm totally older than you and I'm yelling we should do something/anything.   :-\

do something about what? be specific

The Showstoppa

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Re: (video warning) Dead Children, The Case for destroying the Theocracy of Syria
« Reply #374 on: September 07, 2013, 06:05:11 PM »
No. Good point. Problem was the US infiltration(s) for the last 50-years.  :-\

Just yanking your chain.  Funny that so many turds here with "give peace a chance" stickers from Iraq are silent on this topic.  For me I support any excuse to thin the muslim hordes.   ;D