Normal cycles are not enough anymore...

[Mad-scientist]

So I front loaded 2000mgs of test E and am running 850mgs a week I have went from 205 to 217 in a month. But It is not as dramatic as I pictured it being. I can barley tell I am getting bigger. I feel like I am just filling out a lot more but it is not crazy noticeable. So I have decided to add in 500mgs of NPP a week for the next three months and I also am going to add in T-bol at 50mgs a day for a month when the NPP kicks in.

I use to think that some of these really high dosages were crazy like a gram a week of testosterone alone I thought was even really crazy. But now I am pretty much at a gram of test a week almost and I am not satisfied with the gains. I have ran a few cycles in the past but mostly just pro hormones and I would run like 3 compounds at once like superdrol, halodrol and tren all pro hormones. And I did 6 cycles that were around that strength. I am starting to think that the pro hormone cycle I described was way more powerful than a gram of testosterone a week. I would like to end my cycle of Test E at 850mgs, NPP at 500mgs and Tbol at 50mgs at the weight of 230. Do you guys think that is a legitimate goal is that asking for to much? I already got that stuff and did the first injection of NPP. also I have 6000mgs Of npp and was going to run it at 500mgs a week for 3 months do you guys think I should raise the dose and lower the amount of time or is that a good dosage and time on it.

Honestly I guess I have just become accustom to seeing guys like dallas mccarver at 300 pounds at the age off 22 and I thought it would be a lot easier than it is and that I could get pretty damn big with just the dosage of testosterone I named. But I am realizing going from 205 to 217 people don't even notice. And it pisses me the fuck off lol. What type of dosages should I be running from here on out if I am trying to get as big as the guys in the NPC. I didn't want to take to much to quick and burn out but im 24 now so I guess Im old enough to step it up a few notches.

[shrek]

Be patient and consistent , hit it hard and eat plenty and you should gain fairly quick...... one other thing don't use the scale use the mirror .... plays your test just kicked in so of course you aren't gonna see shit in a month

[Borracho]

Be patient and consistent , hit it hard and eat plenty and you should gain fairly quick...... one other thing don't use the scale use the mirror .... plays your test just kicked in so of course you aren't gonna see shit in a month

Yeah wtf is a month....

[Mad-scientist]

Its not really a ridiculous post. I figured when it comes to big cycles the people here are usually the ones who have good ideas on what to run. And the way it mathematically works out with test E is I injected 2000mgs as a front load and 425mgs every third day and my blood concentration levels reach 800mgs in 2 weeks. I have been trying to figure out when that equates to size. And people I have talked to say I should have gained a pretty good amount by now.

Ive done other cycles before and I felt like I gained more muscle or my body reacted better to steroids. If it hasn't been enough time to gain a lot of muscle and that's what you guys think. Ive also been trying to figure that out. But according to the math I reached blood concentration levels of 500mgs on week 1 and 800mgs on week 2 after front loading that much and with my injection schedule.

Honestly man I do get what you mean if I read a post like this I would think the same thing. But the math does work out with the front load and the blood levels I explained. I have been trying to figure out though if blood levels equate to size coming on quicker. Because with the normal cycle I would not expect anything tell about week 6. And so I figure if im not gaining as much muscle as I want and my goal is to get really fucking big. Why not bump it up to bigger dosages. I mean in my opinion this is the best forum to go to for unbiased information about big cycles. Lol Get big has always been the most hard core forum out there. I know all the half lifes and steroid profiles and what pro's take and how it all correlates together but in all honesty I do not have the physical experience with the compounds. And there is not a lot of new posts in the steroid section here I figured if I have a question why not ask it. And just shoot the shit with people about it I knew it was a question that some people would get mad about. But my thought process was realistically what do I have to lose by asking. And I enjoy the feed back from people. If the calculations on the frontload do not add up to size this quickly than that answers part of my question. I know I have Blood levels at around 850mgs of test right now though. When there are a shit load of knowledgeable people on a forum I figure why not take advantage of it and ask questions.

[Mad-scientist]

I would rather get my questions answered and become more knowledgeable about steroids than be afraid to ask the questions. Like I said front loading is new to me. And the method of frontloading that much and the theory behind it is probably new to most people. So my expectations were based up on the fact I was told I should start seeing pretty big size gains around 2 weeks. I said fuck it and tried the method. I liked the idea of trying something new most people have not tried. So the answer's about it are going to be harder to get to. Because im sure most people have not tried a front load like that. And the ones who are on here that have tried it. It probably wasn't even a front load they probably just ran 2 grams of test a week with other compounds. 

[shrek]

Well when you frontload you use a fast ester or a fast oral as in you plan to run 500test e per week so the first couple weeks you would add like 300 suspension plus 500 yes e then drop the suspension after a couple weeks..... I enjoy running 30 mg dbol or 50-75mg A bomb

[efanhowz]

Steroids aside

In terms of strength gains it takes 6 weeks to make neurological adaptations and then after that comes muscle size adaptation aka hypertrophy which is a slow ongoing process

Honestly GENETICS is #1 and will determine how fast you grow. You can't control that so all you can do is eat, lift, inject, and wait........years

I've found moderate doses over time are more effective then high blasts for me. I also would try and cut for a while to reach a lower body fat where all your muscles are visible prior to your next bulk so you can effectively rate your progress by watching each muscle group grow. No point in trying to bulk if you are %15 with barely any abs

[shrek]

Steroids aside

In terms of strength gains it takes 6 weeks to make neurological adaptations and then after that comes muscle size adaptation aka hypertrophy which is a slow ongoing process

Honestly GENETICS is #1 and will determine how fast you grow. You can't control that so all you can do is eat, lift, inject, and wait........years

I've found moderate doses over time are more effective then high blasts for me. I also would try and cut for a while to reach a lower body fat where all your muscles are visible prior to your next bulk so you can effectively rate your progress by watching each muscle group grow. No point in trying to bulk if you are %15 with barely any abs

yep I bulked pretty much the whole time I've been lifting and using and now I'm ready to shed and harden up I'm up to 270 and around 15% so now I would like to get in. The 250 range in the next 6 weeks then up the stimulants when its cooler to get down to 240 and stay there for a good while

[whitewidow]

So I front loaded 2000mgs of test E and am running 850mgs a week I have went from 205 to 217 in a month. But It is not as dramatic as I pictured it being. I can barley tell I am getting bigger. I feel like I am just filling out a lot more but it is not crazy noticeable. So I have decided to add in 500mgs of NPP a week for the next three months and I also am going to add in T-bol at 50mgs a day for a month when the NPP kicks in.

I use to think that some of these really high dosages were crazy like a gram a week of testosterone alone I thought was even really crazy. But now I am pretty much at a gram of test a week almost and I am not satisfied with the gains. I have ran a few cycles in the past but mostly just pro hormones and I would run like 3 compounds at once like superdrol, halodrol and tren all pro hormones. And I did 6 cycles that were around that strength. I am starting to think that the pro hormone cycle I described was way more powerful than a gram of testosterone a week. I would like to end my cycle of Test E at 850mgs, NPP at 500mgs and Tbol at 50mgs at the weight of 230. Do you guys think that is a legitimate goal is that asking for to much? I already got that stuff and did the first injection of NPP. also I have 6000mgs Of npp and was going to run it at 500mgs a week for 3 months do you guys think I should raise the dose and lower the amount of time or is that a good dosage and time on it.

Honestly I guess I have just become accustom to seeing guys like dallas mccarver at 300 pounds at the age off 22 and I thought it would be a lot easier than it is and that I could get pretty damn big with just the dosage of testosterone I named. But I am realizing going from 205 to 217 people don't even notice. And it pisses me the fuck off lol. What type of dosages should I be running from here on out if I am trying to get as big as the guys in the NPC. I didn't want to take to much to quick and burn out but im 24 now so I guess Im old enough to step it up a few notches.

Dallas is on a shit load of gear and HGh/insulin fucking evantyhing you could think of. He runs 5-6 grams of gear, alot of synthol, high amounts of pharma HGH 15-18 IU, slin, everything!
I know this is pretty accurate because he works with john o' Reagon who advices those types of cycles. Dallas will burn out.

[Mad-scientist]

That's what always trips me out. Is taking so much gear that my body just kind of burns out and has no where to go from where I am. I haven't ever even got close to those dosages but still that would be fucked up to take so much gear it just becomes ineffective.

Lol like dallas is taking a year off to try to grow more. But the trippy thing to me is the guy has already reached 300 pounds in the off season at a pretty lean body weight. So how much more weight can he even hold on to. It seems like guys like jay cutler get that big but they hold on to the muscle a lot better. Or some how they loose a lot less while cutting down.

[ESFitness]

well, you have a couple options.

blast/cruise

&

just staying on higher doses for extended periods.

personally, i'd stay on higher doses for extended periods and switch to 'harder' drugs when you need to be 'presentable'... for instance you're going to a bbing expo and wanna be lean/hard, or you have a vacation coming up or something... or some of us have a photoshoot, or a contest.

i'd say try running 2g test and 1200 npp/wk for 12+ weeks... alternating 4 weeks on, 2 weeks off of dbol at 100/day. and keep adex at 1mg eod.

then if you have no reason to get lean/hard, just take 3-4 weeks 'off' at 250-500 test, and jump back on the 2g/1200 enan/npp.

I've never bought into the theory you need to increase the dose every cycle. if you grew on 2g/1200 before, keep the dose the same for another 12 weeks or so.

if you gotta get lean and hard, just cut the NPP and replace it with 500-700 tren ace and replace the dbol with either 200mg anadrol/day or 1mg methyltrienolone/day.

nice and simple.

[anabolichalo]

try this, the author seems legit

Many bodybuilders believe the key to growth is through exotic drug combinations. This is simply not true. With the exception of the last 8 or so weeks of contest prep, there is very little reason to use drugs like trenbolone, masteron, winstrol, anavar, halotestin, etc. If your goal is to gain as much size as possible it boils down to 3 simple components:

1) Lots of food
2) Heavy training
3) Lots of testosterone, nandralone, dianabol, anadrol, growth hormone and insulin

There is simply no need for elaborate combinations of 6 different anabolic steroids in varying doses to become huge. For example, a simple an effective protocol that will transform anyone into a "mass monster" would be:

2,000mg testosterone
1,000mg nandralone
100mg dbol
10iu hGH
15iu insulin first thing AM, and post workout

There is never a reason to go below 1,000mg testosterone except for health reasons. 600mg-800mg's of nandralone is a good baseline year round, use varying amounts of the phenyl propionate ester to blast an additional 400-600mg's of nandralone off and on as the decanoate ester is simply too slow for well timed "blasts" when staying on year long in a "blast and cruise" protocol.

Dianabol and Anadrol are extremely beneficial. These two drugs provide a level of muscle fullness, weight gain and strength (remember, progressive overload is the key to growth so the heavier you lift, the bigger you will get - up to a point, anyway) that proves invaluable. Dbol/Drol is best taken in one large dose pre workout, on non-workout days you can take a much smaller dose (or none at all) and stagger the difference to allow for larger dosages on workout days. For example:

Monday - 100mg dbol preworkout
Tuesday - 100mg dbol pre workout
Wednesday - rest no dbol
Thursday - 100mg dbol pre workout
Friday - 100mg dbol pre workout
Sat and Sun - Rest no dbol

This typically allows the user to reap all the positive benefits of higher doses at the most important time (during the workout) while avoiding a lot of the negative side effects that come with daily doses of such quantities.

Take growth hormone only on workout days, in an entire dose post workout. Even if you can only afford 5iu's of real growth hormone per week, take the total amount you would use weekly and divide it in one larger shot post workout, only on workout days. Use insulin everyday, first thing in the morning before breakfast. On training days, use insulin pre workout - timing dependent on the time of insulin used. 10g carbs per 1iu is a good starting place for insulin but it is not the be all and end all, many people are fine with 6-7g per 1iu and then some require 14-15g per 1iu. The more GH you use, the more insulin your body can tolerate with less carbs, this is part of the reason GH keeps you leaner when using insulin. Remember, insulin increases nutrient shuttling it does NOT shuttle 100 percent of the nutrients into the muscles. When you add IGF to the equation, it causes the exact opposite effect of GH: you can now tolerate much less insulin and need much more carbs. The best combination is all 3: IGF, hGH and insulin.

Sermorelin is another effective peptide that many guys are discovering has true benefits. it is very easy to get prescribed to sermorelin, pretty much any anti-aging doc will do it as it is far less regulated in its uses than GH. Sermorelin WILL keep you leaner, hungrier and have a synergistic muscle building effect with the anabolics as well as with other peptides like GH and IGF. The best way to use sermorelin is basically the opposite of GH: instead of one large dose, take sermorelin everyday, 3-5 times per day in the "saturation dose" each time.  

So, far the bodybuilder looking to build some serious size we now have:
2,000mg testosterone
1,000mg nandralone
100mg dbol pre workout, workout days only
10iu GH postworkout, workout days only
15iu insulin every morning
15iu insulin pre workout
1mg sermorelin 3-5x per day, everyday
120mcg IGF-1 pre workout pinned in muscles to be trained

[Mad-scientist]

well, you have a couple options.

blast/cruise

&

just staying on higher doses for extended periods.

personally, i'd stay on higher doses for extended periods and switch to 'harder' drugs when you need to be 'presentable'... for instance you're going to a bbing expo and wanna be lean/hard, or you have a vacation coming up or something... or some of us have a photoshoot, or a contest.

i'd say try running 2g test and 1200 npp/wk for 12+ weeks... alternating 4 weeks on, 2 weeks off of dbol at 100/day. and keep adex at 1mg eod.

then if you have no reason to get lean/hard, just take 3-4 weeks 'off' at 250-500 test, and jump back on the 2g/1200 enan/npp.

I've never bought into the theory you need to increase the dose every cycle. if you grew on 2g/1200 before, keep the dose the same for another 12 weeks or so.

if you gotta get lean and hard, just cut the NPP and replace it with 500-700 tren ace and replace the dbol with either 200mg anadrol/day or 1mg methyltrienolone/day.

nice and simple.

That is a very interesting way to go about gaining size. I always enjoy your posts man. I will definitely put some thought into what you posted. I would like to try the 2 grams of test and 1200 NPP that would give me a good amount of size.

[Mad-scientist]

try this, the author seems legit

this is also a interesting theory to

[anabolichalo]

this is also a interesting theory to

bfg seems like he knows what his talking about

read his post history, he doesnt post a lot so it's advisable

[chess315]

That is a very interesting way to go about gaining size. I always enjoy your posts man. I will definitely put some thought into what you posted. I would like to try the 2 grams of test and 1200 NPP that would give me a good amount of size.

that with and added oral would get you close to your steroid alone limit assuming you respond decently to them compounds.

[Mad-scientist]

efonhows is the smartest guy who posted here.

lol at delusionals who try 2 gramms of test an then gain 12lbs of water bloat in a month

i can gain that overnight, with a huge cheat meal.will be all water gains, stomach full of food weight.


by that logic the op would be huge monster some time soon no?

12lbs in 1 month gained, or what?how much you think is muscle?

now,what are you injecting again, 2gramms test as base?

think thats necesary?

if you need 2 gramms of test togain 12lbs bloat in 1 month, maybe try different sport.

you know hy poeple dont realize the gains?

you know why that is?it pisses you off ?really?

they dont realize, because-you dumb ox- you havent gained any muscle and-or are too fat.

you didnt gain even 2lbs of muscle, that is why nobody realizes.maybe 1lbs muscle(serious,dead serious), which is watered away by 11lbs of pure,unjadulterated bloof.

so what you wanna hear?inject even more and then you will be a monster?haha.

wh do you even care about weight on scale?this alone tells me youre some perma bulker fatso.

scale means nothing.

your gains are piss poor.

if you need 2+ gramms of test alone and then some to be a whooping 212 lbs soaking wet, then i dont see a bright future for you in this endeavour

Lol I just wanted to see if people even thought I would gain muscle from the front load yet. Like I said I never front loaded before and the people I had talked to who knew a lot more than me about steroids claimed I should be gaining muscle in 2 weeks. So that is why I asked the questions I did. Honestly you are probably right I have gained all water weight. Ive cycled before and gained a lot of pure lean muscle and it looked totally different than what I am experiencing now. So this being my first time front loading and not cycling anything for a year and a half the combination of those two things fucked with my head. It makes me wonder if maybe I am not responding like I use to or what the fuck is up . Im not a a perma bulker fatso all though with all this fucking water weight Ive gained im starting to feel like one. Lol I should have just stuck to a normal cycle and not front loaded and I would have known when to expect gains. Ive had great gains with just testosterone at 750mgs before and was very lean and doing a shit load of cardio every day and looked great. This time I decided to not do any cardio and eat a lot of food. Lol I heard some different bodybuilders who said they didn't do cardio during bulking. Im just experimenting and trying to find out what works with my body. Honestly your post doesn't piss me off I see the truth in some of the things you say. I don't believe everything you said and im not a fat perma bulker or idiot like I said im experimenting with different ways of running gear and training methods. And I haven't ran a cycle for a long time so combining all those things it makes it harder for me to figure out what is going on. Maybe I have just gotten water retention and estrogen bloat and upping my calories is the only reason I have gained weight along with the water weight. And it hasn't been long enough to gain muscle mass. I think I just expected muscle quicker from a front load and confused bloat and estrogen build up with muscle. That is why I wanted your guys opinion.

[Mad-scientist]

Im honestly glad I asked. Because no one else was giving me a straight answer. So at least I got one  here. Even if I sound like a idiot I still got my answer. And ive never frontloaded before and was told muscle would appear in 2 weeks so it made me panic.

[Mad-scientist]

But if these were the gains I was going to be getting I would rather run grams of steroids than settle for this. Im sure other people would feel the same way if they felt that they were not growing from a normal dosage. Hope fully everything kicks in and I just expected to much from a frontload

[GettingBig]

bf % ? diet ?

trust me you can inject all Pharma Grade aas and without proper diet and exercise you won't see nothing.

and a month ? come on man give it some time check your diet train hard and make sure you not injecting fake with just some vegetable oil named test e.

good luck.

[Mad-scientist]

Lol I went to the gym after reading your post and did cardio for a hour. Lol ya I value your view man I like hearing different views. Every one I was talking to kept telling me to eat more and more and dirty bulking is good. And today I just really started to notice its not turning into muscle. All the extra calories are just turning into fat. And the water retention isn't helping my case either. So im going to throw in cardio 3 times a week for 45 minutes to a hour. The thing that sucks is I was basically force feeding myself to I did not enjoy eating a lot and it back fired on me. Im not fat by any means but you made a good point that the leaner I am the more I will notice gains.

I do know a lot about individual compounds and stuff like that but. I've only researched them and don't have actual real life experience. But I took all the right preventive measures on my cycle. Im running hcg at 500 ius a week, im taking .25mgs of prami every other day, and taking .75 mgs every other day of arimadex to keep estrogen controlled. I started with .50 but my nipples started to hurt and felt fucked up. So I upped it to .75 and that feeling went away.

[Mad-scientist]

bf % ? diet ?

trust me you can inject all Pharma Grade aas and without proper diet and exercise you won't see nothing.

and a month ? come on man give it some time check your diet train hard and make sure you not injecting fake with just some vegetable oil named test e.

good luck.

I would say my body fat percentage is at 15%. . Lol my diet well I haven't been counting how much protein carbs and fat I am taking in. I just started eating a lot more and figured since I am trying to bulk I will just eat as much as I can. Ive basically been eating all barbequed meat I figured that would put on a lot of weight. I always heard of guys like lee priest dirty bulking to get really big so I kind of took that approach. I haven't been eating at mcdonalds or any fast food. But ive been eating chicken drum sticks and steak and bratwursts and stuff like that. Ha ha ha my thought process was putting on a little fat couldn't hurt and that all the high protein meals and high calories would contribute to muscle gains. I always hear people say its hard to grow eating clean food.

[Cal_Lifter]

How many calories are you eating a day? I myself have never wanted to get 'that big' as I'd probably become self conscious at work, but I'm sure I'd be jealous of your strength gains at the gym. Best of luck!

[Mad-scientist]

I don't know how many calories I am taking in a day I haven't really calculated any of it. I just know I am eating a lot. More than I was before my cycle started. I hurt my shoulder so I haven't been able to go all out at all for upper body. But it seems like my strength is slowly increasing. Nothing spectacular yet though. It sounds like I need to wait for everything to kick in full blast.

[whitewidow]

why did you start the cycle at that high of a BF%? If you want better gains next time lean down to around 6-8% and then hit the juice. The tbol might not show alot of gains either. If you really want that massive look you should of jump started with some drol or dbol even superdrol. I know you are probably trying to avoid oral steroids due to the past desinger orals you took. But those designer orals are powerfull. I blew up crazy on just 350mg of Test suspension a week and just 50mg of Halodrol-50 a day, but I was 8% when I started the cycle. My shoulder to waist ratio got riduculous. I trimmed down to a 29IN waist from a 31IN while throwing on a solid 12lbs.That First run gaspari halodrol-50 was insane shit,it was the kind of oral where you take and you can immeditely feel it working from day 1.