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Author Topic: The myth that republicans have no ideas for healthcare reform...  (Read 1324 times)
tonymctones
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« on: September 19, 2013, 05:45:35 PM »

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/28/seriously-the-republicans-have-no-health-plan/

were some of these during the bush admin???

Comprehensive Republican health reform plans introduced in Congress

Let’s start with 5 comprehensive health reform proposals that have actually been introduced in Congress—some well before President Obama even was nominated for president, and all months before the House (11/7/09) or Senate (12/24/09) voted on what eventually became Obamacare.
•Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act (S. 1783) introduced by Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) July 12, 2007.
•Every American Insured Health Act introduced by Senators Richard Burr (R-NC) and Bob Corker (R-TN) with co-sponsors Tom Coburn (R-OK), Mel Martinez (formerly R-FL) and Elizabeth Dole (formerly R-NC) on July 26, 2007.
•Senators Bob Bennett (R-UT) and Ron Wyden (D-OR) introduced the Healthy Americans Act on January 18, 2007 and re-introduced the same bill on February 5, 2009.
•Patients’ Choice Act of 2009 introduced by Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC) and Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA) on May 20, 2009.
•H.R. 2300, Empowering Patients First Act introduced July 30, 2009 by Rep. Tom Price (R-GA).

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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2013, 05:47:27 PM »

Comprehensive conservative Obamacare replacement plans

Likewise, conservative market-oriented health policy scholars have developed a rich menu of potential replacement plans for Obamacare:
•Individual Pay or Play proposed in 2005 by John Goodman; this is a minimalist version of a broader reform envisaged by Goodman built on converting the tax exclusion into universal tax credits.
•Health Status Insurance originally proposed by John Cochrane in 1995.
•Universal Health Savings Accounts proposed by John Goodman and Peter Ferrara in 2012. This combines fixed tax credits with individual pay or play and health status insurance concepts along with Roth-style Health Savings Accounts.
•Fixed tax credits. A variety of proposals have centered on using fix tax credits to replace the current inefficient and unfair tax exclusion for employer-provided health benefits. Two good explanations of how that would work are here: •James C. Capretta and Robert E. Moffit, “How to Replace Obamacare,” National Affairs, no. 11 (Spring 2012).
•James C. Capretta. Constructing an Alternative to Obamacare: Key Details for a Practical Replacement Program. American Enterprise Institute, December 2012.
 
•Income-Related Tax Credits proposed by Mark Pauly and John Hoff in Responsible Tax Credits (2002) and endorsed by the American Medical Association. More recently, 8 scholars from Harvard, University of Chicago, and USC–Jay Bhattacharya, Amitabh Chandra, Michael Chernew, Dana Goldman, Anupam Jena, Darius Lakdawalla,Anup Malani and Tomas Philipson—released Best of Both Worlds: Uniting Universal Coverage and Personal Choice in Health Care (2013) which also is built around a model of individual health insurance subsidized with income-related tax credits.
•Flexible Benefits Tax Credit For Health Insurance by Lynn Etheredge in 2001.
•Near-Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2001 by Sara Singer, Alan Garber and Alain Enthoven (covers only non-elderly).
•Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2013 by former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Avik Roy (covers Medicare and Medicaid in addition to privately insured).

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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2013, 05:48:33 PM »

The forgotten history of George W. Bush’s comprehensive health reform plan

Too many people conveniently ignore that in his 2007 State of the Union message President Bush proposed a sweeping health reform plan that would have replaced the current tax exclusion for employer-provided coverage with standard tax deductions for all individuals and families. The Bush plan called for a tax deduction that would have applied to payroll taxes as well as income taxes. Moreover, if one were worried about non-filers, the subsidy could easily have instead been structured as a refundable tax credit in which case even those without any income taxes would have gotten an additional amount. This is the kind of policy detail that easily could have been negotiated had the Democrats been in a cooperative mood in 2007. They were not. On the contrary, President Bush’s health plan was declared “dead on arrival” by Democrats in 2007. Yet it is Republicans who were tagged as being uncooperative and intransigent when they resisted the misguided direction that Obamacare seemed to be headed.

What’s sad is that the Bush plan actually was superior to Obamacare when it comes to providing universal coverage. Remember, Obamacare actually does not provided universal coverage. The latest figures from CBO says that when it is fully implemented in 2016, Obamacare will cut the number of uninsured by only 45%, covering 89% of the non-elderly. Even if illegal immigrants are excluded, this percentage rises to only 92%. In contrast, the Bush plan (without a mandate!) would have cut the number of uninsured by 65%. But that’s ancient history. Consider one of the newest market-oriented health reform plans put on the table by Jim Capretta and Douglas Holtz-Eakin. Compared to Obamacare, this plan would cost roughly the same amount yet cover 22% more (8 million!) uninsured. If there’s a superior alternative to the slow-motion train wreck now being implemented, why wouldn’t the President and Democrats in Congress want to seriously consider it as a replacement?

Of course even those willing to acknowledge Bush’s health reform plan then tend to counter with the claim that he wasn’t “serious” about his proposal. It was just a defensive move to defend Republicans in 2008 against the charge that the Republicans didn’t have a plan because they didn’t care about the issue (sound familiar). Those dubious about GWB’s “seriousness” about health reform should do the following thought experiment. Imagine that the Democrats in Congress had passed a bill containing the Bush administration’s health plan–no more, no less. Does anyone seriously believe GWB would have vetoed that bill? If not, I would argue his proposal was a serious one.

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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2013, 05:53:48 PM »

also lets not forget the repeal of obamacare which by all measures is not what it was sold as...

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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2013, 05:53:53 AM »

The libtard dumocrats will never admit that republicans have come up with ideas for healthcare reform.

If it's different from their own ideas, libtards will never accept it and will claim that the GOP doesn't have solutions. It has to be their way.

So much for compromise.
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tonymctones
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2013, 05:54:18 PM »

The libtard dumocrats will never admit that republicans have come up with ideas for healthcare reform.

If it's different from their own ideas, libtards will never accept it and will claim that the GOP doesn't have solutions. It has to be their way.

So much for compromise.
I agree notice how none of those who bought the lie have shown up in this thread...
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2013, 09:05:11 AM »

Sort of a stupid partisan non-issue. 

All republican proposals fail to address the millions of uninsured and underinsured.  More tax deferred savings plans and credits have been tried.  They don't work well.  Espcecialy where all health coverage has become catastrophic in terms of the cost (deductible less than 5 grand?  Don't think so.).  From that POV, the republicans are  just more of the same with no new plan.

Obama's plan is not good but it is better than anything from the opposition.  The Public Option was the best bet.  But Obama did not run on that platform.  That's too bad b/c people needed it.  We needed a new FDR and got Stepin Fetchit instead.
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2013, 09:42:07 AM »

Sort of a stupid partisan non-issue. 

All republican proposals fail to address the millions of uninsured and underinsured.  More tax deferred savings plans and credits have been tried.  They don't work well.  Espcecialy where all health coverage has become catastrophic in terms of the cost (deductible less than 5 grand?  Don't think so.).  From that POV, the republicans are  just more of the same with no new plan.

Obama's plan is not good but it is better than anything from the opposition.  The Public Option was the best bet.  But Obama did not run on that platform.  That's too bad b/c people needed it.  We needed a new FDR and got Stepin Fetchit instead.

BULLSHIT!!!!  Stop FNG lying.  Yes he did promise the public option

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acc6Wn_BWlk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acc6Wn_BWlk</a>
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2013, 09:57:22 AM »

BULLSHIT!!!!  Stop FNG lying.  Yes he did promise the public option

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acc6Wn_BWlk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acc6Wn_BWlk</a>
He said a lot of things but he did not run on the public option.

Didn't your mother ever teach you how to act like a respectable person?

I guess not.  Take your filthy mouth and lies and go.
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2013, 09:59:46 AM »

Sort of a stupid partisan non-issue. 

All republican proposals fail to address the millions of uninsured and underinsured.  More tax deferred savings plans and credits have been tried.  They don't work well.  Espcecialy where all health coverage has become catastrophic in terms of the cost (deductible less than 5 grand?  Don't think so.).  From that POV, the republicans are  just more of the same with no new plan.

Obama's plan is not good but it is better than anything from the opposition.  The Public Option was the best bet.  But Obama did not run on that platform.  That's too bad b/c people needed it.  We needed a new FDR and got Stepin Fetchit instead.

Bullshit!  The GOP has a plan.  If you get sick DIE.  Fast!!
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2013, 10:00:52 AM »

He said a lot of things but he did not run on the public option.

Didn't your mother ever teach you how to act like a respectable person?

I guess not.  Take your filthy mouth and lies and go.

Stop spreading lies and you will be treated accordingly.  Obama lied to you and the gullible fools that voted for him.  Deal with it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J5v45VDcUM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J5v45VDcUM</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcG3oEPdku4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcG3oEPdku4</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohjO3BW5TY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohjO3BW5TY</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnz2m5X_IO4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnz2m5X_IO4</a>
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tonymctones
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2013, 10:01:54 AM »

Sort of a stupid partisan non-issue.  

All republican proposals fail to address the millions of uninsured and underinsured.  More tax deferred savings plans and credits have been tried.  They don't work well.  Espcecialy where all health coverage has become catastrophic in terms of the cost (deductible less than 5 grand?  Don't think so.).  From that POV, the republicans are  just more of the same with no new plan.

Obama's plan is not good but it is better than anything from the opposition.  The Public Option was the best bet.  But Obama did not run on that platform.  That's too bad b/c people needed it.  We needed a new FDR and got Stepin Fetchit instead.
actually you're incorrect there gimmick, many articles out there showing bushes proposal would have covered more and cost less...
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2013, 10:02:18 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8QKUxang9g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8QKUxang9g</a>
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2013, 10:20:50 AM »

Stop spreading lies and you will be treated accordingly.  Obama lied to you and the gullible fools that voted for him.  Deal with it.

Cool Sign a ‘Universal' Health care Bill

Last but certainly not least is the promise Mr. Obama made to sign a universal health care bill. Although the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act has many detractors, this has to be considered a major promise kept by President Obama.

On March 23, 2010 after months of political battles on Capitol Hill, President Obama signed Democrat-passed health care reform into law, triggering a firestorm that is still working its way through the courts. Many legal scholars and pundits expect the matter will ultimately be resolved in the Supreme Court

Trippi adds that no president can keep all of his campaign promises, yet on the biggest issues, such as Iraq and health care reform, Obama did make good on pledges he made on the trail.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/05/brief-look-at-candidate-obama-2008-campaign-promises/

You don't know what you're talking about.

But by all means, keep posting more and more videos that I won't watch.

Deal with it!  hahaha h.  You're tough.
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2013, 10:26:08 AM »

actually you're incorrect there gimmick, many articles out there showing bushes proposal would have covered more and cost less...

Really?  Can you first explain Bush's healthcare plan and then show me the articles out there showing how it covers more people and cost less...than a plan that inflates the rolls of insurance which necessarily drops the cost of coverage?

This is no gimmick.  Republican plans are terrible.  Obama's plan is scarcely better.  Don't pretend otherwise.
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2013, 03:15:01 PM »

Really?  Can you first explain Bush's healthcare plan and then show me the articles out there showing how it covers more people and cost less...than a plan that inflates the rolls of insurance which necessarily drops the cost of coverage?

This is no gimmick.  Republican plans are terrible.  Obama's plan is scarcely better.  Don't pretend otherwise.
hey, hi. AndreaRyc...welcome to the GOP clown car.
and just wait until the run up to the '16 prez election.  this place will be going bonkers.
hang in there. and enjoy the people here. just don't take them seriously.
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2013, 03:25:00 PM »

hey, hi. AndreaRyc...welcome to the GOP clown car.
and just wait until the run up to the '16 prez election.  this place will be going bonkers.
hang in there. and enjoy the people here. just don't take them seriously.

Especially chadstallion, the never serious unfunny comic relief.   Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2013, 03:48:22 PM »

Really?  Can you first explain Bush's healthcare plan and then show me the articles out there showing how it covers more people and cost less...than a plan that inflates the rolls of insurance which necessarily drops the cost of coverage?

This is no gimmick.  Republican plans are terrible.  Obama's plan is scarcely better.  Don't pretend otherwise.

he's not pretending
he really is that gullible/stupid

Republicans have been opposing any kind of healthcare reform since they squashed Trumans attempt at universal health care in 1949 (and it probably goes back farther than that)
The only time even bother to pretend to offer any kind of "ideas" is when they are opposing Democratic ideas (that's why they came up with the individual mandate in opposition to what they called Hillarycare.   Once Hilarycare was shit canned they all suddenly decided it was really a horrible idea after having raved about it just a few short years previously - note that Romney didn't get the memo)

When Repubs had a majority under Bush they could have done some form of healthcare reform and gotten bipartisan support but they didn't do shit

btw - I believe Tony is suggesting that you are the gimmick

Welcome to the Right Wing Echo Chamber/Cirlce Jerk that is the Politics Board
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2013, 03:56:22 PM »

he's not pretending
he really is that gullible/stupid

Republicans have been opposing any kind of healthcare reform since they squashed Trumans attempt at universal health care in 1949
The only time even bother to pretend to offer any kind of "ideas" is when they are opposing Democratic ideas (that's why they came up with the individual mandate in opposition to what they called Hillarycare.   Once Hilarycare was shit canned they all suddenly decided it was really a horrible idea after having raved about it just a few short years previously - note that Romney didn't get the memo)

When Repubs had a majority under Bush they could have done some form of healthcare reform and gotten bipartisan support but they didn't do shit

btw - I believe Tony is suggesting that you are the gimmick

Welcome to the Right Wing Echo Chamber/Cirlce Jerk that is the Politics Board
Lmfao yes straw opposing reform by offering legislation
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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2013, 04:00:18 PM »

Lmfao yes straw opposing reform by offering legislation


yet they suddenly forgot all their wonderful ideas (or decided they were actually terrible ideas) when they actually had enough votes in Congress and also controlled the White House

Shit, Repubs could have actually sponsored legislation when Dems had control because Dems would have supported them

btw - proposing ideas like getting rid of medicare and giving your grandmother a voucher to go shop for private insurance is not exactly a "reform" nor is it a good idea.
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2013, 04:48:01 PM »

Sort of a stupid partisan non-issue. 

All republican proposals fail to address the millions of uninsured and underinsured.  More tax deferred savings plans and credits have been tried.  They don't work well.  Espcecialy where all health coverage has become catastrophic in terms of the cost (deductible less than 5 grand?  Don't think so.).  From that POV, the republicans are  just more of the same with no new plan.

Obama's plan is not good but it is better than anything from the opposition.  The Public Option was the best bet.  But Obama did not run on that platform.  That's too bad b/c people needed it.  We needed a new FDR and got Stepin Fetchit instead.

Welcome!  If you love stupid, you'll love it here!  Smiley
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tonymctones
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« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2013, 05:49:01 PM »

yet they suddenly forgot all their wonderful ideas (or decided they were actually terrible ideas) when they actually had enough votes in Congress and also controlled the White House

Shit, Repubs could have actually sponsored legislation when Dems had control because Dems would have supported them

btw - proposing ideas like getting rid of medicare and giving your grandmother a voucher to go shop for private insurance is not exactly a "reform" nor is it a good idea.
actually if you look at the dates many of them were during the dem controlled congress, many were before when bush was president and many were after.

So what we have is undeniable proof that the reps have been committed to comprehensive health care reform. Now I know you have to draw your silver lining to fit your pre determined agenda or else your head will explode but facts are facts.

Individual mandates and more legislation that raises premiums and increases costs for companies isnt exactly reform either nor are they good ideas...but draw your silver linings there straw
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2013, 06:03:40 PM »

Really?  Can you first explain Bush's healthcare plan and then show me the articles out there showing how it covers more people and cost less...than a plan that inflates the rolls of insurance which necessarily drops the cost of coverage?

This is no gimmick.  Republican plans are terrible.  Obama's plan is scarcely better.  Don't pretend otherwise.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2012/04/30/how-george-w-bush-would-have-replaced-obamacare/

The Lewin Group analyzed the Bush tax reform using its Health Benefits Simulation Model, and estimated that equalizing the tax treatment of health insurance would expand coverage by 9.2 million people. In addition, the Bush administration estimated that the Affordable Choices Initiative would expand coverage by an additional 2 million or so, for a total of about 11 million. That’s not as large a coverage expansion of Obamacare, at 33 million, but that 11 million is achieved with zero increase in federal spending commitments: a pretty impressive bang for the buck.

Even more impressively, the Joint Committee on Taxation—the government agency responsible for the CBO’s estimates of the impact of tax legislation—projected that the Bush proposal would reduce the deficit by $334 billion from 2008 to 2017, and by trillions more in later decades, because the tax deduction would grow at the rate of inflation, whereas the tax exclusion of employer-sponsored health insurance isn’t capped by law, and grows along with overall, and higher, health inflation.

notice the uninsured % under the proposal(bush's plan) now compare that to the current law(obamacare)


* Bush Ownage.jpg (70.42 KB, 600x458 - viewed 78 times.)
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2013, 06:58:20 PM »

actually if you look at the dates many of them were during the dem controlled congress, many were before when bush was president and many were after.

So what we have is undeniable proof that the reps have been committed to comprehensive health care reform. Now I know you have to draw your silver lining to fit your pre determined agenda or else your head will explode but facts are facts.

Individual mandates and more legislation that raises premiums and increases costs for companies isnt exactly reform either nor are they good ideas...but draw your silver linings there straw

sure if comprehensive health reform = dismantling medicare and giving your 80 year old grandmother a coupon to go buy private health insurance

I always laugh when you imply I have "an agenda'

My only agenda is to post on this board for as long as it entertains me

While you were scouring the internet for republican "ideas" did you do any research on exactly why NONE of them made it into law?

Was it the Dems who stopped it or were the Repubs blocked by their own party or did they not follow through because they didn't actually give a rats ass about healthcare reform and were just proposing crap as a way to object to Dem ideas

BTW - have you noticed that the Repubs used to say "repeal and replace" when it came to Obamacare and now after the 40+ symbolic votes for the benefit of appeasing the sliver of teabag idiots they dropped the "replace" part all together

I wonder why they don't mention replace anymore

could it be that they didn't give a shit in the first place and they know the votes are a complete waste of time and money so why even bother with the bullshit "replace" statement when they never had any intention of replacing it with anything
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2013, 07:44:45 PM »

The libtard dumocrats will never admit that republicans have come up with ideas for healthcare reform.

If it's different from their own ideas, libtards will never accept it and will claim that the GOP doesn't have solutions. It has to be their way.

So much for compromise.



The Repubs have had ideas, but nothing that's been a viable plan.  And certainly nothing that ever made it on the agenda.  This was one of my biggest problems with the Repubs during the whole debate.  Congress (as a whole) just let the situation brew.  When it finally boiled over, the Dems controlled the Congress and the Presidency and we got Obamacare.

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