Inequality for All

[arce1988]

[Montague]

So how do you see this playing out? Poor woman pops out baby number 2, can't afford to feed it, baby dies of starvation.

How about couple has two children, a boy and a girl. They've fallen on hard times and so the mother tells the father to take the two children out in the woods lose them because they cannot afford to feed them. The two little lost children find a witch's house in the woods. The witch plans to cook them for dinner, instead they push the witch into her own oven, thus murdering her.  

The program, as it is currently run, is a "reward system" that encourages "poor" people to have more children they cannot afford. I know many people are producing children solely for the U.S Treasury checks that they bring. We need to move away from that type of encouragement, as it is certainly not helping the problem, but rather propagating it.

[avxo]

So how do you see this playing out? Poor woman pops out baby number 2, can't afford to feed it, baby dies of starvation.

Yeah... it's easy to make up ridiculous examples, especially if you choose to use logical fallacies (in this case, bifurcation). You make it sound as if the only two alternatives are government checks or starving children. That's just bullshit. There aren't just those two options.

The simple fact is that there are plenty of non-government organizations that are working to feed and provide for the poor. If the government wasn't in the business of handing out checks to people who can't make ends meet, it could collect less in taxes, which would directly and indirectly help those poor people: directly by letting them keep more of their own money and indirectly by allowing those who aren't poor to have more disposable income that they could then use to donate to organizations that help the poor if they were so inclined.

 

How about couple has two children, a boy and a girl. They've fallen on hard times and so the mother tells the father to take the two children out in the woods lose them because they cannot afford to feed them. The two little lost children find a witch's house in the woods. The witch plans to cook them for dinner, instead they push the witch into her own oven, thus murdering her.  

And don't forget poor little Snow White. And Cinderella. And Little Red Riding Hood.

[oldtimer1]

As more and more people become liberal wackos there is no hope for this country. They are so easily led. They can't see how the liberal majority media is shaping their thoughts. After 8 years of Hillary Clinton we will be done. People are voting with the promise of what Government can do for them with other people's tax money. The government has no money. Only what they take from the workers. If someone has a house and nice car I don't think it's not fair like a liberal thinks. I think I better get to work and make something out of myself.

[Montague]

People are voting with the promise of what Government can do for them with other people's tax money. The government has no money. Only what they take from the workers.

While true, this preaching is an attempt in futility. You can't compete with handouts and rewards for laziness. It's sad that so many have lost their drive in favor of pitching a tent on the sidewalk, not bathing for a week, and crying jealously about successful companies and their wealthy executives.

[pedro01]

Right now in the US, there is a MASSIVE transfer of wealth going on from the middle classes to the ultra-rich.

Money is being printed on a massive scale and devaluing the savings/earnings of the middle class. The middle classes are not seeing 1c of this money and it is not getting loaned to businesses to generate new jobs.

So, all this discussion about "rising to the top", "equality of opportunity", "socialism" is somewhat moot. The conversation should not really be about the bottom tier vs the middle classes or even the odd few that make the jump from middle class to the '1%'. The conversation should be about the massive bank-job underway in the US right now.

[Parker]

The program, as it is currently run, is a "reward system" that encourages "poor" people to have more children they cannot afford. I know many people are producing children solely for the U.S Treasury checks that they bring. We need to move away from that type of encouragement, as it is certainly not helping the problem, but rather propagating it.

And who will support the massive Judicial System? And who will fight our wars?

[Archer77]

And who will support the massive Judicial System? And who will fight our wars?

This is a good point

[Roger Bacon]

You are trolling right? This is so far from true, even in the USA, that this statement has to be a troll. Let's not even get to talking about the rest of the world.

edit: Your claim is anecdotal for someone living in Poland. Well, it's wrong. Especially when applied to countries like the USA. I know of at least a dozen people personally that don't own, nor have access to a computer. Let alone the internet. Yeah, this is anecdotal, but it's the absolute truth. And these are people that aren't considered "poor" in the USA. Each one of these people know their own chain of people in the same situation.

95% if not 100% of people in the United States have access to internet.  Every public library has dozens of computers anyone can use.

[Roger Bacon]

REICH: …”I am concerned, as I’m sure many of you are, that these jobs not simply go to high-skilled people who are already professionals or to white male construction workers…I have nothing against white male construction workers, I’m just saying there are other people who have needs as well.”

[TommyBoy]

95% if not 100% of people in the United States have access to internet.  Every public library has dozens of computers anyone can use.

Going off that logic literally 100% of the population of the planet earth does. Think about this and be real for a second. There are places, in the USA alone, where people are literally HOURS from THINGS. YES THIS IS STILL A THING. So yeah, if if Joe Random living in PoDunk Desert Town is willing to drive a few hours to use that public internet, then yeah! You are absolutely correct! And I've seen the public library in my area near capacity, or full, every time I have gone during the weekdays. Your logic is bad. BAD LOGIC IS YOUR'S.

[deceiver]

bro, 50% of the world population has never made a single phone call yet.

no joke, we forget how relatively good we have it in the west.

We are talking about USA here.

Parker, I am not talking about charity. I am talking about FORCING me to give my money for the sake of "equality". Inequality is natural and good. Survival of the fittest. This is why we are where we are now, as civilization. There is no way you can make everyone happy.

I do not come from poverty, pretty far from it actually. But I do understand it because I was born and raised in one of biggest shitholes in Europe. I was going to school with kids that were starving and ate only because school gave them food. Some of them I consider my friends.

And yes, since I always had more than I needed I did my share of charity. I am by no means devoted to it, it never costed me much. But I think thanks to me some poor kids wear 200$ sweaters that didn't fit me because I became too big . That's least anyone can do.

But I shudder at the very thought of forcing anyone to share his wealth for the sake of "common good". We already tried doing that and we failed. I was born after this fucked up system died but my parents lived in that era and you can ask anyone from that generation from southern Europe how that worked out for everybody. Do we really need to go into specifics? It just does not work, never did, never will.

Just like I do not force any girl to fuck me and I do not expect to be major NBA star. Do you really think any girl fucked me because she felt sorry for me or to "give me equal chances"?

[avxo]

95% if not 100% of people in the United States have access to internet.  Every public library has dozens of computers anyone can use.

You are pulling numbers out of your ass. And asses aren't a good place to keep numbers in.

[Primemuscle]

Yeah... it's easy to make up ridiculous examples, especially if you choose to use logical fallacies (in this case, bifurcation). You make it sound as if the only two alternatives are government checks or starving children. That's just bullshit. There aren't just those two options.

The simple fact is that there are plenty of non-government organizations that are working to feed and provide for the poor. If the government wasn't in the business of handing out checks to people who can't make ends meet, it could collect less in taxes, which would directly and indirectly help those poor people: directly by letting them keep more of their own money and indirectly by allowing those who aren't poor to have more disposable income that they could then use to donate to organizations that help the poor if they were so inclined.

 
And don't forget poor little Snow White. And Cinderella. And Little Red Riding Hood.

I've been thinking of picking up some extra money, maybe buy a new car and do some upgrades to my house. How many kids do you think I need to get enough government checks to accomplish my financial goals? Do you know which states pay the best because here in Oregon a family of three with little or no income is entitled to $503 per month? I probably spend this much at Starbucks each month. I was hoping for more like a couple of grand on top of what I have coming in already.

ADC and it's counterparts are state run programs, so the amount varies by state.

For those living in Oregon, check this out before you have anymore children: http://www.benefits.gov/benefits/browse-by-state/state/OR

[Primemuscle]

The program, as it is currently run, is a "reward system" that encourages "poor" people to have more children they cannot afford. I know many people are producing children solely for the U.S Treasury checks that they bring. We need to move away from that type of encouragement, as it is certainly not helping the problem, but rather propagating it.

Tell those people you know who are having children solely for the State run welfare checks to stop it. The Federal government has no such program unless one is homeless and mentally ill. In Oregon temporary aid (otherwise known as welfare) just a little over $500 a month for a family of three.


If you're thinking of having a few kids for profit, check this out first:
http://www.benefits.gov/

[Parker]

We are talking about USA here.

Parker, I am not talking about charity. I am talking about FORCING me to give my money for the sake of "equality". Inequality is natural and good. Survival of the fittest. This is why we are where we are now, as civilization. There is no way you can make everyone happy.

I do not come from poverty, pretty far from it actually. But I do understand it because I was born and raised in one of biggest shitholes in Europe. I was going to school with kids that were starving and ate only because school gave them food. Some of them I consider my friends.

And yes, since I always had more than I needed I did my share of charity. I am by no means devoted to it, it never costed me much. But I think thanks to me some poor kids wear 200$ sweaters that didn't fit me because I became too big . That's least anyone can do.

But I shudder at the very thought of forcing anyone to share his wealth for the sake of "common good". We already tried doing that and we failed. I was born after this fucked up system died but my parents lived in that era and you can ask anyone from that generation from southern Europe how that worked out for everybody. Do we really need to go into specifics? It just does not work, never did, never will.

Just like I do not force any girl to fuck me and I do not expect to be major NBA star. Do you really think any girl fucked me because she felt sorry for me or to "give me equal chances"?

They may have, ever heard of pity p___y? 

[Montague]

The Federal government has no such program unless one is homeless and mentally ill. In Oregon temporary aid (otherwise known as welfare) just a little over $500 a month for a family of three.

About ten years ago, I worked for a brief time in a bank. I opened accounts and cashed checks for many welfare recipients, some of whom would describe to me their modus operandi. Women would come in with the father of their babies, and we would find out they both maintained separate dwellings simply to qualify for receiving SSI. This is just one example. It was astonishing the stunts they'd pull (not to mention how easy it was), and as a tax payer, it made my blood boil. Their take home was more than mine at the time!

Those SSI funds were drawn on U.S. Treasury checks - FEDERAL FUNDING. As for welfare serving as temporary aid, I'm all for it...but, too many people have made a career out of it, and it's our government's fault for allowing it to reach that point.

[Primemuscle]

About ten years ago, I worked for a brief time in a bank. I opened accounts and cashed checks for many welfare recipients, some of whom would describe to me their modus operandi. Women would come in with the father of their babies, and we would find out they both maintained separate dwellings simply to qualify for receiving SSI. This is just one example. It was astonishing the stunts they'd pull (not to mention how easy it was), and as a tax payer, it made my blood boil. Their take home was more than mine at the time!

Those SSI funds were drawn on U.S. Treasury checks - FEDERAL FUNDING. As for welfare serving as temporary aid, I'm all for it...but, too many people have made a career out of it, and it's our government's fault for allowing it to reach that point.

The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program pays benefits to disabled adults and children who have limited income and resources. How Do I Apply For SSI?

We do not have an SSI application online. If you would like to apply for SSI benefits for:
An adult with a disability
A child with a disability
A person age 65 and older

http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm


Without a doubt, there are those who work the system or outright lie in order to receive SSI, welfare, and other subsidies such as food stamps. Sometimes they get caught and sometimes not. Of course being indigent, when caught they are not able to pay back the illegally gotten monies. Occasionally, they do jail time.

My wife and I are retired people over the age of 65, we both get SSI. Our benefit amount is based on nearly 50 years of paying into the system because we both worked all of our adult lives. Never-the-less, if we had to live on this income alone, it would be a meager life. Fortunately we also have investments and pensions. We live well, but we are hardly living in luxury.

Incidentally, bank employees (tellers) are notoriously underpaid unless they are loan officers or bank managers. You probably could have earned more money working at Starbucks as a barista.

It's easy to blame the government for the wrongs in society. Is the government responsible for criminals as well? Is it the government's fault that there is an ongoing epidemic of drug abuse? There always has been and always will be folks who abuse the system. Perhaps it is also government's responsibility that bodybuilders use and some times die from steroid abuse.

[Archer77]

http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm


Without a doubt, there are those who work the system or outright lie in order to receive SSI, welfare, and other subsidies such as food stamps. Sometimes they get caught and sometimes not. Of course being indigent, when caught they are not able to pay back the illegally gotten monies. Occasionally, they do jail time.

My wife and I are retired people over the age of 65, we both get SSI. Our benefit amount is based on nearly 50 years of paying into the system because we both worked all of our adult lives. Never-the-less, if we had to live on this income alone, it would be a meager life. Fortunately we also have investments and pensions. We live well, but we are hardly living in luxury.

Incidentally, bank employees (tellers) are notoriously underpaid unless they are loan officers or bank managers. You probably could have earned more money working at Starbucks as a barista.

Do you have Medicare?   In many cases no matter how much you've paid into the system the benefits received in medical care will be more than what been contributed.   For the record, I support Medicare.  I'd prefer my grandma had medical care.

[Primemuscle]

Do you have Medicare?   In many cases no matter how much you've paid into the system the benefits received in medical care will be more than what been contributed.   For the record, I support Medicare.  I'd prefer my grandma had medical care.

We both have Medicare. Medicare is automatic when you reach 65 years of age. Medicare is somewhat minimal medical insurance, IMO. In addition to Medicare we purchase supplemental medical insurance at considerable cost per month. Regardless of medical insurance coverage, our out-of-pocket medical expenses last tax year exceeded $8,000. Granted, my wife has a lot of health issues, but this is not uncommon among seniors.

Medicare began in 1965 when I was 21 years old. I have no idea what was deducted from my pay for Medicare premiums all those years ago, but I paid into the system for 44 years. My wife worked until she was 60 when she retired health reasons. She was awarded SSD and two years later Medicare. Since she also worked all of her adult life she paid into Medicare for at least 40 years.

[GRACIE JIU-JITSU]

 US= capitalism for the poor ,and socialism for the rich.lol

 Question: what do you think about FIAT money?

 

[Parker]

http://www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm


Without a doubt, there are those who work the system or outright lie in order to receive SSI, welfare, and other subsidies such as food stamps. Sometimes they get caught and sometimes not. Of course being indigent, when caught they are not able to pay back the illegally gotten monies. Occasionally, they do jail time.

My wife and I are retired people over the age of 65, we both get SSI. Our benefit amount is based on nearly 50 years of paying into the system because we both worked all of our adult lives. Never-the-less, if we had to live on this income alone, it would be a meager life. Fortunately we also have investments and pensions. We live well, but we are hardly living in luxury.

Incidentally, bank employees (tellers) are notoriously underpaid unless they are loan officers or bank managers. You probably could have earned more money working at Starbucks as a barista.

It's easy to blame the government for the wrongs in society. Is the government responsible for criminals as well? Is it the government's fault that there is an ongoing epidemic of drug abuse? There always has been and always will be folks who abuse the system. Perhaps it is also government's responsibility that bodybuilders use and some times die from steroid abuse.

The new scam is SSI and many people are in on it. They even run ads on TV in my area for attorneys helping people get SSI. You have people who have are bipolar getting checks just to sit on their butts all day. Weed heads, heroin addicts, drunks, and just damn lazy people all have something that "prevents them from working". It is huge...

[Irongrip400]

The new scam is SSI and many people are in on it. They even run ads on TV in my area for attorneys helping people get SSI. You have people who have are bipolar getting checks just to sit on their butts all day. Weed heads, heroin addicts, drunks, and just damn lazy people all have something that "prevents them from working". It is huge...

How do we stop this? Seriously. I believe it is too far gone at this point.

[Parker]

How do we stop this? Seriously. I believe it is too far gone at this point.

It is too far gone...seriously, if you can get a doctor's note saying that you are "depressed", then you can get SSI Disability. What is your disability? Seriously, I've seen dudes who smoke weed all day, get some tail, smoke weed, play video games, and go to the mailbox and get a check. And they have told me how to do this!
I saw a guy who parked in the handicap parking space at a local store. Dude was driving a Camaro ZL1, top of line Camaro. Looked in his 40s...and he raced his girlfriend to the car...what is his disability?


Another issue, in the state of MD, and I don't know if it is true for your state. But, if a person gets locked up, they can use their SSI Disability card to put money down on a bond...
So if you are a victim of a crime, and that person gets a bond and whoever bonds him out has money on their card and uses it, you are in effect paying the bond for the defendant who committed a crime against you.

Somehow, I believe the politicians are tied into this. If you give people the access to this, the they will vote for you. Also, they spend the money like it's water, so they are putting the money back into the economy...supposedly stimulating it, but it gets taken out of the taxpayers wallet.

[Montague]

It's easy to blame the government for the wrongs in society. There always has been and always will be folks who abuse the system.

It is easy AND fair to blame the govt for the specific scenario I originally mentioned because it is the GOVERNMENT that set it up that way. People are abusing the system because the govt lets them; just as they pave the way for the people Parker describes.