Author Topic: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.  (Read 7529 times)

Straw Man

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Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« on: October 01, 2013, 03:42:17 PM »
I don't expect the short attention span crowd on this board to get through this but I think the author is correct in the motivation by the GOP at large

I also think the TeaParty people in Congress, much like those same people on this board are not actually self aware enough to understand this reasoning

They just hate it because they hate everything about Obama and that's all they need

good article though and worth a read


October 1, 2013
Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
By EDUARDO PORTER

This spring, the Missouri Chamber of Commerce urged the state Legislature to accept the federal government’s plan to expand Medicaid for the poor and disabled.

The business lobbying group had not suddenly gone rogue. Here is how Daniel P. Mehan, its president, summarized his feelings about President Obama’s health care law: “We don’t like it.”

But the Chamber was cognizant of the plea of its members directly affected by the issue: dozens of Missouri hospitals stood to lose $4.2 billion over six years in federal support for uncompensated care if the state refused to increase the income ceiling for Medicaid eligibility.

Pragmatism suggested accepting the expansion. Washington would pay the extra cost entirely for three years and pick up 90 percent of the bill thereafter.

And it would expand health coverage in the state’s poor, predominantly white rural counties, which voted consistently to put Republican lawmakers into office.

Missouri’s Republican-controlled Legislature — heavy with Tea Party stalwarts — rejected Medicaid’s expansion in the state anyway.

After their vote, a frustrated editorial in the faithfully conservative Missourian asked of the state’s elected Republicans: “Who Do They Represent?”

Today, the same forces that blocked the expansion of Medicaid in Missouri are going all out in Washington in a bid to undo all of the Affordable Care Act. Bowing to the vehemence of its Tea Party faction, the House G.O.P. forced a government shutdown when Senate Democrats refused to delay or defund the president’s health overhaul.

House Republicans are threatening even further damage if they don’t get their way, possibly unleashing financial chaos if they manage to force the United States into its first default ever on the government’s debt.

Republicans’ efforts raise the same perplexing question posed by the Missourian: What drives Tea Party Republicans and their financial backers? What calculation persuades them that repealing the health care law is worth the risk? Indeed, whose interests do they represent?

Nearly 6 in 10 Americans disapprove of trying to stop the law by cutting its financing. Even among those who don’t like the law, less than half want their representatives in Congress to try to make it fail.

It is tempting to discard the Tea Party activists driving the Republican Party as crazy — as some commentators have — motivated by fear and willing to believe that default won’t cause much harm and might even act as a purgative to free the economy of a bloated government.

“They listen to nobody but themselves,” the Harvard political scientist Theda Skocpol told me. “They are convinced of their rectitude and convinced that they alone are qualified to save America from the dire threat of Obama and his polices. They have worked themselves into a dangerous place.”

Their relationship with reality can take peculiar turns. Reflexive opponents of “government,” they can exhibit little sense of what the government actually does.

And yet the argument that half the Republican Party has simply lost its mind has to be an unsatisfactory answer, especially considering the sophistication of some of the deep-pocketed backers of the Tea Party insurgency.

There is a plausible alternative to irrationality. Flawed though it may turn out to be, Obamacare, as the Affordable Care Act is popularly known, could fundamentally change the relationship between working Americans and their government. This could pose an existential threat to the small-government credo that has defined the G.O.P. for four decades.

The law is imperfect. It has dozens of complicated, interlocking parts. Half of Americans say they don’t understand how it will affect them and their family. Still, the law has many provisions that are likely to improve life for millions of Americans, including a big portion of what we know as the working middle class.

Almost two-thirds of uninsured Americans have a full-time job, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. A further 16 percent are employed part time.

The Department of Health and Human Services recently estimated that nearly six in 10 uninsured Americans could qualify for health coverage in the insurance market for less than $100 per person per month.

According to an analysis by the Urban Institute, 28 million Americans would gain health insurance under Obamacare. Of these, eight million earn more than twice the poverty level of $47,100 for a family of four. A majority of those would get a subsidy to buy a plan.

As it turns out, the core Tea Party demographic — working white men between the ages of 45 and 64 — would do fairly well under the law.

Take Missouri. It has about 800,000 uninsured. Almost half of them would have been eligible for expanded Medicaid benefits, had the Legislature not rejected them. Many of the rest — including families of four making up to $94,000 — will be eligible to get subsidized health insurance.

In St. Louis, for instance, a family of four making $50,000 a year will be able to buy a middle-of-the-road “silver” health plan for $282 a month and a bottom-end “bronze” plan for $32. Even Medicare recipients will get a benefit worth a few hundred dollars a year.

This could justify conservative Republicans’ greatest fears.

In 1994, when President Bill Clinton took an earlier stab at a health care overhaul, the conservative thinker Irving Kristol published a manifesto about why Republicans had to stop it.

“Passage of the Clinton health plan in any form would be disastrous,” Mr. Kristol wrote, italicizing for emphasis. “It would guarantee an unprecedented federal intrusion into the American economy. Its success would signal the rebirth of centralized welfare-state policy at the moment that such policy is being perceived as a failure in other areas.”

Two decades after Mr. Clinton’s ultimately failed attempt, Obamacare poses the same sort of threat.

Even Americans who say they dislike the law actually like many of its components. Nearly three-quarters approve of giving financial help to poor and moderate-income Americans to buy health insurance. Two-thirds approve of barring insurance companies from denying coverage because of somebody’s medical history. Three-quarters favor letting children stay on their parents’ insurance until they are 26.

Until now, social welfare programs in the United States have exhibited a “big hole,” Professor Skocpol said, consisting of nonpoor working-age Americans and their children. Obamacare closes a big chunk of it.

“The main beneficiaries tend to have lower wages, employed in smaller businesses that are not providing health insurance,” she said. “They are not elderly. They are also not the poorest.”

And they might be grateful to Democrats for the benefit.

To conservative Republicans, losing a large slice of the middle class to the ranks of the Democratic Party could justify extreme measures.

E-mail: eporter@nytimes.com;

Twitter: @portereduardo
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/business/economy/why-the-health-care-law-scares-the-gop.html?partner=yahoofinance&_r=0

whork

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 03:45:33 PM »
Good read.

Lets hope the american people punishes the GOP for this mess.

The american people and the world deserve better.

tonymctones

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 09:12:46 PM »
Good read.

Lets hope the american people punishes the GOP for this mess.

The american people and the world deserve better.
they wont, these people are as set in the next elections are as pelosi is in hers...if that bat shit crazy broad can get re-elected these people will have a breeze getting re-elected

Fury

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2013, 04:18:28 AM »
The GOP? The majority of the country hates the law, too. It's a train wreck and yesterday proves it.

They had years to get ready for yesterday and it was still a mess. Just goes to show how utterly worthless government is.

Archer77

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 04:41:26 AM »
Mandatory insurance is cohesive.   A grown man of 26 should not be on their parents insurance either.  By 26 you are an adult and should be able to support yourself.


"In St. Louis, for instance, a family of four making $50,000 a year will be able to buy a middle-of-the-road “silver” health plan for $282 a month and a bottom-end “bronze” plan for $32. Even Medicare recipients will get a benefit worth a few hundred dollars a year."


I predicted a tiered insurance system years ago.  A tiered system isn't going to provide equal quality coverage to all people.  A bronze level plan may well be as bad or worse than an HMO.
A

whork

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 05:35:40 AM »
The GOP? The majority of the country hates the law, too. It's a train wreck and yesterday proves it.

They had years to get ready for yesterday and it was still a mess. Just goes to show how utterly worthless government is.


Yeah im sure the 25 million who gets health insurance hates the law.




Soul Crusher

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 06:38:40 AM »

Yeah im sure the 25 million who gets health insurance hates the law.





They are not getting anything but a mandate to purchase insurance or face a tax or fine. 

AndreaRyc

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2013, 06:39:24 AM »

In 1994, when President Bill Clinton took an earlier stab at a health care overhaul, the conservative thinker Irving Kristol published a manifesto about why Republicans had to stop it.

“Passage of the Clinton health plan in any form would be disastrous,” Mr. Kristol wrote, italicizing for emphasis. “It would guarantee an unprecedented federal intrusion into the American economy. Its success would signal the rebirth of centralized welfare-state policy at the moment that such policy is being perceived as a failure in other areas.”
This is a troubling myth.  The Market is perfect in operation and the government only interferes with that perfection.

That misunderstanding has to go.  There is no free market, no money, no nothing without government.  Government makes those things possible.  It's the private sector that corrupts the marketplace...making it inefficient while bastardizing competition to ensure market domninance by the few who own the USA, its gov. and its people.

In a way, Kristol was right...success of any remedial healthcare plan is disastrous.....for the monied elite.  It's great for everyone else though.  Federal intrusion (fair laws) forces the monied elite to act like human beings for once.  Plus, for healthcare, it removes the absolute yoke that Employer's have on workers...tethering labor to shitty jobs out of fear for loss of health benefits.


But is this necessary?  Why, with a little hard work, we can all be above average entrepreneurial business owners.  Only problem is, no one is left to do the labor.  So it is in our best interests to make sure that labor and the lesser economic classes are cared for.

Archer77

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2013, 06:52:54 AM »
This is a troubling myth.  The Market is perfect in operation and the government only interferes with that perfection.

That misunderstanding has to go.  There is no free market, no money, no nothing without government.  Government makes those things possible.  It's the private sector that corrupts the marketplace...making it inefficient while bastardizing competition to ensure market domninance by the few who own the USA, its gov. and its people.

In a way, Kristol was right...success of any remedial healthcare plan is disastrous.....for the monied elite.  It's great for everyone else though.  Federal intrusion (fair laws) forces the monied elite to act like human beings for once.  Plus, for healthcare, it removes the absolute yoke that Employer's have on workers...tethering labor to shitty jobs out of fear for loss of health benefits.


But is this necessary?  Why, with a little hard work, we can all be above average entrepreneurial business owners.  Only problem is, no one is left to do the labor.  So it is in our best interests to make sure that labor and the lesser economic classes are cared for.

A lot of truth here.  You're always going to need the government and laws to enforce such things as property rights.
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Necrosis

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2013, 08:01:14 AM »
The GOP? The majority of the country hates the law, too. It's a train wreck and yesterday proves it.

They had years to get ready for yesterday and it was still a mess. Just goes to show how utterly worthless government is.

Americans by majority support it and yesterday 10 million visits were counted, do you realize how many people checked into that one site that one day? must be real unpopular.


Why are you mad, you can stay on your moms plan for years now baby boi.

Necrosis

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2013, 08:02:31 AM »
This is a troubling myth.  The Market is perfect in operation and the government only interferes with that perfection.

That misunderstanding has to go.  There is no free market, no money, no nothing without government.  Government makes those things possible.  It's the private sector that corrupts the marketplace...making it inefficient while bastardizing competition to ensure market domninance by the few who own the USA, its gov. and its people.

In a way, Kristol was right...success of any remedial healthcare plan is disastrous.....for the monied elite.  It's great for everyone else though.  Federal intrusion (fair laws) forces the monied elite to act like human beings for once.  Plus, for healthcare, it removes the absolute yoke that Employer's have on workers...tethering labor to shitty jobs out of fear for loss of health benefits.


But is this necessary?  Why, with a little hard work, we can all be above average entrepreneurial business owners.  Only problem is, no one is left to do the labor.  So it is in our best interests to make sure that labor and the lesser economic classes are cared for.

oh really? a cogent response on this board....

Necrosis

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2013, 08:03:24 AM »
Mandatory insurance is cohesive.   A grown man of 26 should not be on their parents insurance either.  By 26 you are an adult and should be able to support yourself.


"In St. Louis, for instance, a family of four making $50,000 a year will be able to buy a middle-of-the-road “silver” health plan for $282 a month and a bottom-end “bronze” plan for $32. Even Medicare recipients will get a benefit worth a few hundred dollars a year."


I predicted a tiered insurance system years ago.  A tiered system isn't going to provide equal quality coverage to all people.  A bronze level plan may well be as bad or worse than an HMO.

The exact opposite is true without evidence.

Archer77

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2013, 08:04:14 AM »
The exact opposite is true without evidence.

?
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LurkerNoMore

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2013, 08:29:35 AM »
The exact opposite is true without evidence.

Quoteworthy (for those that get it)

Straw Man

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2013, 08:36:13 AM »
The GOP? The majority of the country hates the law, too. It's a train wreck and yesterday proves it.

They had years to get ready for yesterday and it was still a mess. Just goes to show how utterly worthless government is.

LOL - yeah so many people tried to sign up on the first day that the system couldn't deal with the volume

what more proof do you need that everyone hates this law


Soul Crusher

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2013, 08:42:25 AM »
LOL - yeah so many people tried to sign up on the first day that the system couldn't deal with the volume

what more proof do you need that everyone hates this law



A few million out of a country of 310,000,000   - yeah everyone loves it. 

Straw Man

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2013, 08:54:21 AM »
A few million out of a country of 310,000,000   - yeah everyone loves it. 

Most people in this country will never have to use it dunce




bears

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2013, 09:25:34 AM »
the bottom line is this.  you can read all of the polls and read all of the articles you want.  but the fact remains is that Obamacare is forcing employers like me out of the private market and into the government program.  thats not to be debated anymore.  Obama was correct when he said that my health care plan won't be affected at all.  i will still be able to see all the same doctors that i was seeing.  however he failed to mention the fact that the mandates set forth by his administration will cause my health care premiums to increase by more than 40%. 

and maybe purchasing health care fromt he exchange is not going to hurt me in the long run.  my mind is open to the fact that it may even work out better for me and my family.

but the fact that some people on here are displaying an unwaivering confidence in the ability of the US government to maintain and monitor this gigantic health care exchange just plainly shows that those people are either:

1. a complete fucking idiot.
or
2. an ideologue who doesn't care what happens.  you're bought and sold already.

if you support what the Obama administration is doing OK.  i can respect that.  but unless you're going into this with a large degree of professional skepticism you're just a media baby who in my opinion should not be voting. 

Thick Nick

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2013, 09:30:30 AM »
People are saying why they hate it you dumb shit. Just listen to them...

People who work / own businesses don't want to pay for you lazy ass unemployed bitches to live off our teet for anything else. It's really that simple.
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Straw Man

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2013, 09:33:08 AM »
People are saying why they hate it you dumb shit. Just listen to them...

People who work / own businesses don't want to pay for you lazy ass unemployed bitches to live off our teet for anything else. It's really that simple.

yes, you're right that is very simplistic

no doubt about that

no one is living off you though I'm sure you believe it to be true

dario73

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2013, 09:34:32 AM »

Yeah im sure the 25 million who gets health insurance hates the law.





What about the 30 million who, according to the CBO, after 10 years under this law will still be uninsured?

This law doesn't even achieve what it supposedly was supposed to accomplish. If it's so great how come there were companies getting waivers?

HEHEHEHEEH!!!  This is a disaster. But, we all know this joke of a law is just to take a step toward complete control by the government of the health system via single payer. That is what Harry Reid implied.

dario73

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 09:35:56 AM »
the bottom line is this.  you can read all of the polls and read all of the articles you want.  but the fact remains is that Obamacare is forcing employers like me out of the private market and into the government program.  thats not to be debated anymore.  Obama was correct when he said that my health care plan won't be affected at all.  i will still be able to see all the same doctors that i was seeing.  however he failed to mention the fact that the mandates set forth by his administration will cause my health care premiums to increase by more than 40%. 

and maybe purchasing health care fromt he exchange is not going to hurt me in the long run.  my mind is open to the fact that it may even work out better for me and my family.

but the fact that some people on here are displaying an unwaivering confidence in the ability of the US government to maintain and monitor this gigantic health care exchange just plainly shows that those people are either:

1. a complete fucking idiot.
or
2. an ideologue who doesn't care what happens.  you're bought and sold already.

if you support what the Obama administration is doing OK.  i can respect that.  but unless you're going into this with a large degree of professional skepticism you're just a media baby who in my opinion should not be voting. 

Thread over

Thick Nick

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2013, 09:36:00 AM »
yes, you're right that is very simplistic

no doubt about that

no one is living off you though I'm sure you believe it to be true

They don't? So can I have my 40k in taxes I paid last year back? Versus let's see... Those who paid nothing? And I'm a small fry. Grow up you live in fantasy la la land. You leeches DO live off of us that work and you want more. I don't want to give more. That's all there is to it.

Taxes should go to the benefit of all... Roads military etc not for the benefit of a specific group. That's called robbery.
$

Straw Man

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2013, 09:37:50 AM »
What about the 30 million who, according to the CBO, after 10 years under this law will still be uninsured?

This law doesn't even achieve what it supposedly was supposed to accomplish. If it's so great how come there were companies getting waivers?

HEHEHEHEEH!!!  This is a disaster. But, we all know this joke of a law is just to take a step toward complete control by the government of the health system via single payer. That is what Harry Reid implied.

that's what they should have done in the first place

Instead they tried to compromise with Republicans by basing the plan on Republican ideas

And in return they got no support

They should have not even bothered to try to appease Repubs in the first place


Straw Man

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2013, 09:44:02 AM »
They don't? So can I have my 40k in taxes I paid last year back? Versus let's see... Those who paid nothing? And I'm a small fry. Grow up you live in fantasy la la land. You leeches DO live off of us that work and you want more. I don't want to give more. That's all there is to it.

Taxes should go to the benefit of all... Roads military etc not for the benefit of a specific group. That's called robbery.

I paid more than that last year

what does that have to do with Health Insurance

If you just want to piss and moan (which is what appears to be the only thing that Repubs can ever do) then carry on