question for Div and other experienced people

[JOHN MATRIX]

ive been 'researching' AAS for quite a while now on various bbing forums, and there is almost no concensus on anything.
one thing i noticed is that everyone nowdays is heavily emphasizing the test-only, or test as a base always theories. anyone who says otherwise is flamed. after reading up on it, i see that test is one of the more 'extreme' compounds you can take; it gives the most gains, but comes with alot of potential sides.
another thing is the 'no oral-only cycle no matter what' thing. people say how bad dbol is on your liver when taken alone yet always approve it when taken with test. or, they say dbol only gains always go away...
yet all the testimony i hear from the older guys is that in their experience, test is a really harsh compound that most dont like. in general they think modern doses being given as advice are too high, that its the large doses that cause problems; ive read many testimonials from guys using 150mg or less a week of deca only and they got solid gains and no real sides from it, apparently with no PCT...many older guys and ironagers used nothing but dbol, in huge amounts, and make and kept massive gains without destroying their bodies...you see how much blatantly conflicting info is being given? its impossible to know 'the right way' just by 'doing research' on the internet.
another thing, is when people post here saying their going to do their first cycle with, say, 250-300mg/wk of test e. immediately the auto responses are to raise the dose to around 500-600. is that really necessary, for a first cycle? is 250mg/wk of test-e not going to do anything to a first time user? seems unusual to me.
i myself have no experience with AAS, but will in the future and am trying to learn the ropes, but its not as clear-cut for the newbie as some of you seem to think.

[whitewidow]

I hear ya bro- I have talked to alot of old-timers who say the exact same thing. the funny thing is alot of the people giving the advice have never really used the stuff- they just bought some books and think they are pros when it comes to gear. It takes real world experience to know what works for you- everybody is diifrent.

[Loomis]

I agree that there's come to be too many "unquestionable rules" surrounding gear, especially on these boards. I feel there's room to find what works best for your own body. For example, I've had excellent results running Primo alone while cutting.

[DIVISION]

after reading up on it, i see that test is one of the more 'extreme' compounds you can take; it gives the most gains, but comes with alot of potential sides.

No.

Your body naturally produces testosterone, it's the most natural hormone there is in the male organism.

So how is it "extreme"?  That's ludicrous.

another thing is the 'no oral-only cycle no matter what' thing. people say how bad dbol is on your liver when taken alone yet always approve it when taken with test. or, they say dbol only gains always go away...

What's hard to understand about that?

Any 17AA oral will tax your liver, that's a fact.  If you're going to use 17AA orals you might as well get the synergistic benefit from them and use them in a stack with an injectible AAS.  Yes, IMO, d-bol only cycles are a complete waste of time.  Even if you are taking an anti-aromatase like Arimidex you will still see mainly water weight gains that will go away once the cycle is completed.  I don't advocate oral only cycles EVER.

when people post here saying their going to do their first cycle with, say, 250-300mg/wk of test e. immediately the auto responses are to raise the dose to around 500-600.

Obviously I can only speak for myself, but from what you've read on THIS forum, where have I ever recommended a newbie start out at 500MG Test ew? 

Find that and get back to me.

I generally say 250MG Sustanon ew for a newbie, perhaps with an oral.

One last thing:  Regardless of whatever advice anyone gives you, that is not the gospel.  You have to experience for yourself what works for you.  No one can tell you what will work best for you because no one else has your genetics.  Genetics determine how well you respond to gear and which compounds are best for you.  These are guidelines, things to keep in mind, the specifics are things you have to work out for youself.  No one can help you with that.......you have to do it on your own. 



DIV

[Arnold jr]

Look at it like this, on all the various boards your going to come across conflicting information. The only thing you can do is wade through all the bull-shit and try to find what is right for your body, what is going to help you reach your personnel goals. And most importantly, you need to realize that what works for some may not work for you, and vice versa.  Like you mentioned, a lot of guys love d-bol, me personally, I would rather get kicked in the nuts then ever touch another one of those pink pills again.  That doesn't mean that I think d-bol is bad, it's just bad for me. In short, the best thing you can do now is to continue to research like you have, and once you cross over your best asset is going to be trial and error. I know that might sound like a sucky way to go about it, but I'm afraid there is no perfect answer...that would only exist if everyone's genetics were exactly the same.

A good place to continue your research would be that of understanding Test a little more clearly. Like Div said, it's the most natural hormone in the body, so your info on this topic is a little skewed.

Last bit of advice, realize that once you cross over, you will not cross back... so make sure you are ready and properly prepared... good luck to you !

[JOHN MATRIX]

thnks for the replies. every little bit helps.

[DIVISION]

...once you cross over, you will not cross back... so make sure you are ready and properly prepared...

There's no turning back......

This is something that will stay with you until the end of time.

Bare your soul.




DIV

[Beelzebub]

forgive me i'm mistaken but age determines how much test would be effective, would it not?  let's take a 21 y/o male, 220lbs, solidly trained with a good diet, arounc 12-15% bf.  his test levels are more than likely pretty damn good, i would venture to say ~600 or so.  250mg of test to him may bring his levels to a little over a 1k.  not a huge change.

now, let's take a 40-50 y/o male, same stats.  however, because of his age, his test levels are in the 100's.  250mgs bringing his test levels up to 1k is a huge difference. 

like i said, i may be way off base here but i've witnessed a few well-trained guys in their 20's where 500mg of test didn't really do much.  however, when they boosted up to 750mg, gains were much more noticeable.  now, if a guy in his 20's has a shitty training and diet regimen, obviously 500mg of test might do wonders for him because he hasn't even tapped his genetic potential yet however he will most definately lose most of his gains afterwards. 

my moral of the story:  age and experience determines dose. 

[DIVISION]

forgive me i'm mistaken but age determines how much test would be effective, would it not?  let's take a 21 y/o male, 220lbs, solidly trained with a good diet, arounc 12-15% bf.  his test levels are more than likely pretty damn good, i would venture to say ~600 or so.  250mg of test to him may bring his levels to a little over a 1k.  not a huge change.

now, let's take a 40-50 y/o male, same stats.  however, because of his age, his test levels are in the 100's.  250mgs bringing his test levels up to 1k is a huge difference. 

like i said, i may be way off base here but i've witnessed a few well-trained guys in their 20's where 500mg of test didn't really do much.  however, when they boosted up to 750mg, gains were much more noticeable.  now, if a guy in his 20's has a shitty training and diet regimen, obviously 500mg of test might do wonders for him because he hasn't even tapped his genetic potential yet however he will most definately lose most of his gains afterwards. 

my moral of the story:  age and experience determines dose.

True.

However, someone at 20 years old should not even be thinking about AAS unless they are aspiring to be a bodybuilder on some level.  Otherwise they'd be best to wait until they are at least mid-twenties.




DIV

[Beelzebub]

True.

However, someone at 20 years old should not even be thinking about AAS unless they are aspiring to be a bodybuilder on some level.  Otherwise they'd be best to wait until they are at least mid-twenties.




DIV

20's, not 20.  i discourage use before 21, mid-twenties being optimal.