get lean before 1st cycle?

[Wolfox]

Just curious what your guys thoughts are. Im currently high teens and want to do my first cycle in a couple months. Do you guys recommend getting lean first and if so how lean? Would 12% be ok or should I go lower? Just fyi I have a slow metabolism. I diet on keto with low fats. Its a challenge to get to 10%.

[local hero]

for me i dont see the point in doing that... its much easier to change your body composition whilest juiced up, loose fat and gain muscle so to speak, if your going on anyway , why make things hard for your self?

all the bro scientists will chime in and say otherwise no doubt...

[Wolfox]

Thanks for the reply LH. So you recommend a recomp. Would you recommend just eating moderately throughout the cycle letting the recomp take place on its own or would you recommend a slight bulk phase then a cutt phase within a single 15 week cycle?

[shrek]

If you pick the right chems your low metabolism won't be noticed I would say stay away from estrogen conversion drugs and pay a lil extra for the clean lean mass builders like anavar , Winny, primo, para, proviron, mesteron, tren ace but I don't recommend that right off the bat ..... best is to do 500 test and add a highly anabolic non estro conversion like Winny and add in mesteron or primo at a high dose......

[Borracho]

ok man this was my exact dilemma when I first got on.

First off be honest and know that you'll probably never want to come off. Second, "the cycle" stuff isn't the best thing for results. Because the time is very limited with a "cycle" you'll get in your mind you wanna make the best of it and try to put on mass which is not the best thing when already fat....that's what I did.

What you wanna do is either go on and cut hard so you can then focus on gaining lean, or cut naturally and then go on but tbh if you had the motivation to do so you wouldn't be fat in the first place. But whatever you do don't go on thinking just cause you're using gear you'll magically recomp like never before and eat just as you are. Gear enhances things but in your mind it may be a lot more than it actually does...I know that's what I thought and the biggest mistake I made.

[local hero]

ok man this was my exact dilemma when I first got on.

First off be honest and know that you'll probably never want to come off. Second, "the cycle" stuff isn't the best thing for results. Because the time is very limited with a "cycle" you'll get in your mind you wanna make the best of it and try to put on mass which is not the best thing when already fat....that's what I did.

What you wanna do is either go on and cut hard so you can then focus on gaining lean, or cut naturally and then go on but tbh if you had the motivation to do so you wouldn't be fat in the first place. But whatever you do don't go on thinking just cause you're using gear you'll magically recomp like never before and eat just as you are. Gear enhances things but in your mind it may be a lot more than it actually does...I know that's what I thought and the biggest mistake I made.

i pretty much agree with  borracho, go on, clean your diet up... you wont come off after 15 weeks as youl just be starting to make good progress by then, you should have all  the fat off and youl be starting to actualy gain

this all depends on what you want out of this and what your prepared to do of course....

i'll cut to the chase, 1ml of prop 1ml tren ace mon, wed, fri..   swap the tren with npp every 8 weeks etc

now there will be some who will come on and say ' tren, on a 1st cycle wtf etc etc ' but for what your looking for this is what id do... in all honesty unless you wanna step on stage this is as much as youl ever need

[_aj_]

I got down to around 10% and basically became 2D. I look like a female fitness competitor, FFS.

[whitewidow]

I would try to get as lean as possible. that is the best way I think to go about it if you hit around 6-7% everything you throw on is going to look good even if you get a touch of water retention. Look at pors who do shows and come in at about 3% BF most all of them right after the show start a mass building cycle and they gain 20lbs within days because they are already so depleted that is why some pros gain 40-50 lbs so quick, even without the gear they would gain at least 20 lbs from just being dehydrated and carb depleted

[bigmc]

Just curious what your guys thoughts are. Im currently high teens and want to do my first cycle in a couple months. Do you guys recommend getting lean first and if so how lean? Would 12% be ok or should I go lower? Just fyi I have a slow metabolism. I diet on keto with low fats. Its a challenge to get to 10%.

imo the leaner you are the less sides you will get

estrogen issues get worse at a higher bf

if you are going to go on I would look at gear with low conversion rates and eat very clean

cut out alcohol altogether it will make estrogen issues worse

the above is from experience I don't kknow the science behind it

[whitewidow]

I got down to around 10% and basically became 2D. I look like a female fitness competitor, FFS.

lift heavier weights and get down to around 6% you should be massive looking if you can get that lean and can handle some weight and have a bodybuilder diet.

[local hero]

lift heavier weights and get down to around 6% you should be massive looking if you can get that lean and can handle some weight and have a bodybuilder diet.

cutting to 6% natural without much size to begin with, so you lose what little size you have in the process??

why would you want to do that, in all honesty who here has done that?

and whats with the bro science about having to be sub 10 to use gear, sides?, a little water?, big deal... it will become less the leaner you get, if its so big an issue drop half a tab of arimidex eod

the steroid board is missing arnie jnr big time....

[_aj_]

cutting to 6% natural without much size to begin with, so you lose what little size you have in the process??

why would you want to do that, in all honesty who here has done that?

and whats with the bro science about having to be sub 10 to use gear, sides?, a little water?, big deal... it will become less the leaner you get, if its so big an issue drop half a tab of arimidex eod

the steroid board is missing arnie jnr big time....

I would be half-dead and sitting at around 185 and looking like an Ethiopian. Not natty, no way.

[efanhowz]

diet for 12-16 weeks on 500mg test
go off a month to "clean receptors". you'll barely crash bc long estered test takes longer than a month to leave your body
then "bulk" on 750-1,000mg
you will notice gains so much more on a lean body

[whitewidow]

you're gonna lose what little muscle you have under 20% bodyfat by dieting 'naturally'

Not true! I was super ripped and had muscle on top of muscle when I was natural and down to 6%. First cycle I gained 11lbs after just 3 weeks and it was all muscle besides maybe 3 lbs but when you are 6% and gain 11 pounds in 3 weeks even if you get 3 lbs of water people are asking you all day what you are omn because those 11 pounds look like 20 lbs.

[Overload]

It's always been so easy for me to get lean on gear.

I'd get down to 10-12% before a good cycle IMO.