daily routine. I get this all ready before bed and sleep in real late.

[whitewidow]

counterfitting is not worth the effort.

quality gear moves. if you want name recognition, like a Sciroxx or Geneza, then spend $.02 per box and $.015 per label with hologram..... it'll increase you cost by MAYBE $500. Which is a drop in the bucket in terms of cost, but a pain in the ass as far as production time, and not needed unless you're moving large volume.

figure $20k in raw, plus $5k in 'supplies' (10ml bottles, stoppers, fliptops, oil, ba, bb, an enormous amount of peg300, 30ml bottles, bottle top filters, media bottles, septa tops, ect...) will net you between $240k & $320k, roughly... adding a box and label won't increase your volume all that much, or the price per unit.... it's just not worth it.... and moving easy 1-man op amounts, you can move that in 10 months at the start, 8 months after biz pics up. quality product moves itself.

you make no sense. If you are a sciroxx rep you already get all that shit for free! They send you the vials,the labels, the boxes,everything. all somebody would have to do is buy the raw material from china and brew up some quality oils and fill the vials with just as good quality it will sell faster because it can be sold as sciroxx gear instead of a new UGL. It isn't really counterfeiting if the oild is just as good or better!

Tell me how that is counterfeiting if the oils are just as good or better? sciroxx is nothing special and geneza is hit and miss.In the end the end user gets a legit product that is 10% overdosed. I am just saying this can easily be done if you are a sciroxx rep since they make the remailer vial everything up. as far as the tabs that would be stupid and not worth the time but the oils you would make alot of money! what is the name of your UGL? I bet nobody knows the name of it and if they had to pick they would rather buy the sciroxx because they have heard of the brand even though your gear might be just as good it is all about reputation. hit or miss at least sciroxx has been around for years and a newbie customer would pick sciroxx over some UGL they have never heard of.

[whitewidow]

Es vs Wids  who will win this ultimate battle of wether counterfitting sciroxx is viable? My moneys on ES

ES makes no sense! he does not see how easy sciroxx remailers could counterfeit their product and make the product just as good or better your product probably would not pass as sciroxx but some guys with a real high dollar lab and a old school powder connection could make the same quality if not better then sciroxx .I am just saying sciroxx remailers have done this and that is why you have to watch buying sciroxx oils domestic like I said on the first page. I never said it was right but it would be easy to do. I have no idea why you think sciroxx is so great ES. check the threads in the past that have been posted most people think the oils are not very good very hit and miss.

[tstmaniac]

Yeah I hear you,I know many who got fucked up on them too, but they were buying them off the blackmarket and had no medical ailment.Of course everybody gets addicted to them if they have been using them for pain management but their is a diffrence from abusing and taking them correctly. No matter what even if taken correctly you will get dependent but if it makes the quality of your life better what else can you do ? go off them and be all miserable and in pain? It is the younger kids fucking it up and the pain clinincs in florida giving them to kids not even 21 and having them abuse the shit out of them and dying.

Yea man your absolutely right

[Borracho]

you make no sense. If you are a sciroxx rep you already get all that shit for free! They send you the vials,the labels, the boxes,everything. all somebody would have to do is buy the raw material from china and brew up some quality oils and fill the vials with just as good quality it will sell faster because it can be sold as sciroxx gear instead of a new UGL. It isn't really counterfeiting if the oild is just as good or better!

Tell me how that is counterfeiting if the oils are just as good or better? sciroxx is nothing special and geneza is hit and miss.In the end the end user gets a legit product that is 10% overdosed. I am just saying this can easily be done if you are a sciroxx rep since they make the remailer vial everything up. as far as the tabs that would be stupid and not worth the time but the oils you would make alot of money! what is the name of your UGL? I bet nobody knows the name of it and if they had to pick they would rather buy the sciroxx because they have heard of the brand even though your gear might be just as good it is all about reputation. hit or miss at least sciroxx has been around for years and a newbie customer would pick sciroxx over some UGL they have never heard of.

Haven't looked through this back and forth but this pretty much sums it up.

People would rather go with a well known company as long as prices aren't ridiculously higher than an unknown ugl.

[Wolfox]

ES makes no sense! he does not see how easy sciroxx remailers could counterfeit their product and make the product just as good or better your product probably would not pass as sciroxx but some guys with a real high dollar lab and a old school powder connection could make the same quality if not better then sciroxx .I am just saying sciroxx remailers have done this and that is why you have to watch buying sciroxx oils domestic like I said on the first page. I never said it was right but it would be easy to do. I have no idea why you think sciroxx is so great ES. check the threads in the past that have been posted most people think the oils are not very good very hit and miss.

WW wins. Honestly I think EFS is a bit slow. I'm being serious.

[eldoradospandex]

I've been reading your posts for a long time WW, and I have come to the conclusion that you are autistic, or a robot.

[a_pupil]

ww you ever tried alpha pharma anavar?

[BodyMachine]

ww you ever tried alpha pharma anavar?

very good stuff

[whitewidow]

very good stuff

No.heard it was good though.most of their products are great. Only product I have heard a complaint about was their NPP but it might have been counterfeit since alpha-pharma counterfeits have been going around

[whitewidow]

I've been reading your posts for a long time WW, and I have come to the conclusion that you are autistic, or a robot.

No I am no rain man and not robocop.sometimes I post when I am on my meds so I am a little out of it.

[whitewidow]

I never said sciroxx is great... I have serious doubts about 95% of all UGL's, which is why I got back into the biz in the first place.

if you get shit from a 'well known' ugl and you suspect it's either underdosed (weak) or dirty (injection pain or infection), what are you gonna do? complain to the guy? what kind of response are you gonna get? I'll tell you... and it's along the lines of "Get fucked".

you don't like my shit? i'll replace it. you think it's weak? i'll replace it.. you get an infection? i'll refilter and rebottle it (even though it's probably your fault for not using sterile technique).

quality control is difficult when you're moving 15 orders a day... shit gets dirty & doses get sloppy. and you get disgruntled customers... and disgruntled customers = liability... guys who are likely to drop a dime on you. and with large UGL's, the 'temptation' to underdose their shit increases because it's more lucrative due to volume.



2kg of tren ace will produce 2000 bottles @ 100mg/ml... at the minimum price of $60/bottle that's $120k, now if a high volume UGL makes it at 85mg/ml that's 2354 bottles at $60/bottle.. that's $141k, $21k is a likely incentive to underdose their shit (same goes for masteron).... and a high volume UGL is likely running more than 2kg tren ace (or tren e, or mast, ect...) that's a lot of extra money..... now a SMALLER UGL might run 1kg tren at a time... and that's 1000 bottles... if you underdose it, you get an extra 100 bottles? or so... an extra $6k? big deal... it's not worth it.


i'll keep doing what I do and put out quality product. if you want QUALITY, would you rather eat at Panda Express? or a nice Sushi restaurant where you know the chef?

Bro what I am saying is if you were a sciroxx remailer and they sent you all the vials and caps, labels,and boxes ,switch the oil you use to match sciroxxs you could make pretty much the same product quality wise! Am I wrong? So you could make way more money if you did that because you and I know making Test esters cost shit and the only compound that cost alot is primo. Deca,Tren,NPP is all cheap but a hair more then Test esters. You and I know you can produce a vial of Test E for 5$ in bulk.That is all I am saying! I do not counterfeit sciroxx gear but it would be a easy lab to counterfeit when the lab sends their remailer the vials,caps,labels,and boxes.Like I said all you would have to buy is some quality china powder and copy the oil they use and the amount of BA and BB. Right?

[whitewidow]

I never said sciroxx is great... I have serious doubts about 95% of all UGL's, which is why I got back into the biz in the first place.

if you get shit from a 'well known' ugl and you suspect it's either underdosed (weak) or dirty (injection pain or infection), what are you gonna do? complain to the guy? what kind of response are you gonna get? I'll tell you... and it's along the lines of "Get fucked".

you don't like my shit? i'll replace it. you think it's weak? i'll replace it.. you get an infection? i'll refilter and rebottle it (even though it's probably your fault for not using sterile technique).

quality control is difficult when you're moving 15 orders a day... shit gets dirty & doses get sloppy. and you get disgruntled customers... and disgruntled customers = liability... guys who are likely to drop a dime on you. and with large UGL's, the 'temptation' to underdose their shit increases because it's more lucrative due to volume.

2kg of tren ace will produce 2000 bottles @ 100mg/ml... at the minimum price of $60/bottle that's $120k, now if a high volume UGL makes it at 85mg/ml that's 2354 bottles at $60/bottle.. that's $141k, $21k is a likely incentive to underdose their shit (same goes for masteron).... and a high volume UGL is likely running more than 2kg tren ace (or tren e, or mast, ect...) that's a lot of extra money..... now a SMALLER UGL might run 1kg tren at a time... and that's 1000 bottles... if you underdose it, you get an extra 100 bottles? or so... an extra $6k? big deal... it's not worth it.


i'll keep doing what I do and put out quality product. if you want QUALITY, would you rather eat at Panda Express? or a nice Sushi restaurant where you know the chef?

this makes no sense! I have been in this business along time and no big UGL pays that much for that quantity of Tren. At most they pay 20$ per a 10ml 100mg per ml vial of Tren and that is big UGL's like the Old original British Dragon. Even 7 years later after they vhave been shut down the prices on bulk raws has not gone up you can still buy in super bulk and produce legit 100mg per ml tren for 20$. Test enanthate and Test cypionate made in super bulk costs like 5$ at the most to make. I used to buy amps of alpha-pharma Test enanthate or any Test ester from EM for 1.00$ to 1.50$ when bought in bulk. and it was all lab tested and spot on. It sounds like you are getting fucked on buying raws or just not buying in the quantity needed to get those price breaks. Even though sometimes British Dragons gear might have been right on the money or sometimes a little short people still bought it over almost any lab because it was so widely known even though there might have been some UGL making Test 450.

ES you have been around for awhile you remember how cheap Quality vet,Denkal,Brovell,Animal Power,syd group it was all good fucking gear and really cheap. most all 10ml vials of Test E,cyp,sust were 25$-30$ at most! Tren,Deca,masteron,EQ were a little more but only the primo was a expensive product and it was cheap for primo Enanthate it was 60$. The deca,Tren,Masteron,EQ were between 30-45$. Great gear ,cheap prices and all the brands were owned by the same guy and they charged the same prices. Quality vet was of course the most expensive and this was before all the UGl's popped up of cpurse UGL's were still around but 80% of gear users were using these mexican brands that worked pretty close to human grade. Many pros used these brands.

[BodyMachine]

it's going around bro. got a shitty cold right now too, sucks

[BodyMachine]

why the hell is eq 40+. how much does that shit cost

[BodyMachine]

retail. Every ugl sells this shit for 40+ and it's, as we both know, weak in terms of growth. Though in comparing it to a cycle without it, I'm not as vascular or lean interestingly, so it has it's place for me. But fudge I don't want to spend 40+ for 300mg/ml. I need a min of 1g to get anywhere for many many weeks

[whitewidow]

Some UGL's just have a chinese company make all there vials and the bulk prices usually run like this.

Test prop-5$
Test E-7.50$
Test Cyp-7.50$
TRen A- 15$
Tren -E 17$
EQ- 15$
Primo-17.50
sust 7.50$
Masteron 10$

This is higher then if you ordered the raw powder and the vials,caps,holograms,boxes. This just saves alot of time and you get a better looking product plus you don't have to order all the vials,caps,solvents,BB,BA. This is what most chinese bulk labs charge sure it is more then if you went way out of your way and bought the powder yourself,vials ,tops,caps,labels,holograms,boxes. I would rather just have my gear made for me and pay more money but still cheap enough to triple your money on each vial plus you don't have to take the time to produce all the compounds.

[whitewidow]

huh? more like $2.45 lol

depends on if you use holograms and boxes and how great your labels are but you would pay about 3-5$. @.45$ is a little low with all the other stuff you have to consider the BB,BA,ethyl oleate,caps,vials, bottom line 3-5$ to make a 10ml vial of high grade Test E. It also depends on how much powder you are buying. If you are buying in serious bulk the cheaper the gear will cost but on average 3-5$

[whitewidow]

huh? why would a ugl pay for a bottle of anything? a UGL PRODUCES the stuff, not buying ready made stuff.

it should cost no more than $5 at MOST to produce a 10ml 100mg/ml bottle of tren... at MOST, including everything from raw to bottle to stopper to fliptop.

OK maybe not UGL's but some china super labs just make the gear for a customer and label it under whatever brand they want and usually they charge about 15-20$ for tren but it really depends on the bulk you buy,still you are going to get a price where you can triple your money.Plus you save yourself time.Running a full UGL with all oils and tabs is very rare alot of these guys buy bulk tabs from chinese companys and oils and just label them as their lab,whatever they want to call it

[whitewidow]

ugh... dude... it should cost you AT MOST $5 for tren a or tren e, mast p, di-p, or e, and at MOST 2.45 for test e,c,p,a,u... deca should be at most 2.65...

I don't know how you think a 'ugl' paying $20 for a 10ml bottle of tren equates to me getting fucked on my raws... hell, I don't even see how you consider a 'ugl' a UGL if they're paying $20 a bottle of tren.... that's not a UGL.... that's just a middleman... he's making AT MOST %350 profit... whereas my profit margin is in the 1000's.... and i'm getting fucked on raws? lol

I doubt you run a full UGL with every single product and tablet. no way in hell you have a real big UGL. If you know guys who have huge ugl's they do order alot of their press tabs from chinese wholesalers.it is sketch to order tab pressers and press your own tabs and no big UGl has time to cap up that many tabs, and they also order their oils in bulk and just put labels on them they make or have made for them. They may pay more then 5$ for a 10ml vial of tren but the profit is still 300%. It gets sketch importing that much powder so sometimes guys pay more. even if your profit margin was 300% and you sold way more Then a guy making 800% it evens out. Thats because the guy selling it and making 800% is not known on the open source boards. They are not shipping 50 packs a day. It all comes down to a certifictae of analysis if the gear is over by 10% who cares if you made it yourself. In the end the greedy guys sell less gear or get busted.

[whitewidow]

btw... i'm sick as fuck right now and didn't bother to read anymore than the $5 thing... i'll reply later when my Dayquil kicks in and i'm not coughing up brown shit an d feeling like death.

... fucking sick clients... wish they'd stay the fuck home when theyre sick. damnit

dude if you were a big hustler and ran a huge UGL you would not have a job or have to deal with clients. The big guys in the business are busy shipping packs and answering emails all day. I won't say who but some of the biggest UGL's that are private get 50-100 emails a day. Don;t act so hard sometimes and keep quiet about what you do. We have been watching you since you started posting. At least your smart enough to use WU with Id waived because some people want your name maybe ron does.

[whitewidow]

I have all this stuff on spreadsheets. boxes lables and holograms will only increase the cost by about $.10-12 per bottle max.

i'll refrain from posting my exact price for raws and how much i do at once and use only estimate on per bottle cost... if i post how much i do, you can easily figure out (well, maybe not 'easily'.. i don't sense a lot of math-letes here) what my raw cost is...

i don't know what you consider serious bulk.... but "serious bulk" to me means EVERYTHING in serious bulk.. (my PEG300 cost is fucking brutal, everything else is easy in bulk... try having 29 gallons of PEG300 delivered at once. lol... takes up damn near my whole patio with UPS boxes.).... and in "serious bulk", you should be able to produce a bottle of test for about $2 including everything.... raw, ba,bb, oil, RLS 10ml, buytl stopper, crimper/fliptop... now, you can add about $.25 cents by using a silica stopper and a multicolored fliptop.. another $.06 for a hologram, either a hologram you put on yourself, of a hologram printed on your lable.. whichever... $5 is fucking brutal..


but that's not including 'supplies' like your air-filtration, your hotplate/stirrer, beakers, media bottles, septa's, stir-rods, bottle top filters, pumps, ect... which all total would cost you what?.... $500? roughtly, depending on the amouts of bottle top filters, media bottles, septas, ect...

This is why I am saying instead of having to draw attention to yourself and order a whole bunch of stuff like Vials,Caps, some people have their labels made for them, they don't make them on their own,then you need your BA/BB, ethyl Oleate for some compounds.I have a suspicion your powder supplier is not the best just a average connection if that. The really good powder is expensive you would be amazed at the diffrence at Kilo prices and yes prices are going to be higher if you are ordering by the grams rather then by the kilos.

This is why it is better to have a chinese super lab make your gear for you and they make your labels and boxes and put on your hologram and you can name your lab whatever you want to. The cost of course is going to be higher but it makes everything way easier and maybe you are not the one actually making the gear but as long as you send it off to get a certificate of analysis and it is all 10% above label claim what is the diffrence? You probably have no idea how many big time supposive UGL guys do this, they have nothing to do with the production of their own gear or press tabs.

 They buy 10,000 tabs of 10mg dbol for 400$ that is 1,000 10mg tabs for 40$ way easier then pressing them yourself or capping that many tabs out. That is what alot of these companys do just have china take care of everything. I know you are not a huge supplier so making a few vials here and there is no big deal your not running a huge international operation not even on a source board,you just sell to people you work with and local people you know and maybe ship a few packs here and there but you don't have 50 packs going out everyday.

 Like I said the more greedy somebody gets the more of a chance they have of getting busted especially if they keep telling people on a open forum with thousands of members they are a drug dealer not a smart way to operate. You have no excuse for that! That is just poor judgement and underestimating who is watching you. and yes if you read threw that thread you got owned buddy, dont go editing shit now to make yourself look better. They owned you pretty bad. They were just saying put up or shut up but since you have made your claims you can't put up, even if you didn't you really think you are bigger then "the revelation"? that guy is huge!

I used to post some stupid pictures so I probably wouldn't post up a picture on getbig plus I got all these Gh15 elfs that hate me because I exposed some shadey shit that was going on. But If I know somebody well i will send them a picture via phone text