Technology and Unemployment

[AbrahamG]

I work in the printing/marketing business.  I work in a prepress environment.  We image plates before they go on press.  We work 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  It is an X and O schedule.  One shift is 6am-6pm and the other is 6pm-6am.  The X shift covers half the week, the O shift covers the other half.  15 years ago, we had 12 people in the department aka 3 per shift.  We also basically had unlimited overtime due to production demands.  So on any given day, you could have 6 people working per shift.

Now, we are down to 7 people doing the same job with way more volume and unfortunately that 7 will probably be 6 by the end of the year. 

That means that in the past 15 years it takes 1/2 as many people to do my job with approximately double the volume of work. 

If this is true here, I'm going to assume that technology is doing the same thing in pretty much every other industry, with maybe the medical field being the exception.

We have more people now, more technology and less jobs because of it.  Unemployment, if something doesn't change is never, ever going to be under 5% ever again.  I'll even argue that at some point it's going to be permanently north of 10%.

Corporations are making more money than ever and paying less taxes than ever.  At some point, corporate america is going to have to make a collective sacrifice or we are going to be a permanent welfare state.

I would love to see politicians start talking about making 30-35 hours a week the new full time norm and provide incentives for companies to take on more workers and basically redistribute wealth, but at least make people work for it. 

What a great country this would be if everyone only had to work 32 hours a week and had more time for their families and had money to spend on top of that.  Kids would turn out better.  Marriages would be strengthened.  We'd be a happier, healthier nation.

Everyone cannot be doctors and nurses or inventors or small business owners.  At some point the job makers/corporations have to do their part and not only bring back jobs to this country that have left, but hire more people and reduce workweek hours without reducing pay and benefits.

[James28]

That's kinda obvious. With automation people will lose jobs but new markets will open due to advancing technology. The jobs will be there, it's the lack of skills that will hurt, not the loss of jobs

[Shockwave]

I work in the printing/marketing business.  I work in a prepress environment.  We image plates before they go on press.  We work 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  It is an X and O schedule.  One shift is 6am-6pm and the other is 6pm-6am.  The X shift covers half the week, the O shift covers the other half.  15 years ago, we had 12 people in the department aka 3 per shift.  We also basically had unlimited overtime due to production demands.  So on any given day, you could have 6 people working per shift.

Now, we are down to 7 people doing the same job with way more volume and unfortunately that 7 will probably be 6 by the end of the year. 

That means that in the past 15 years it takes 1/2 as many people to do my job with approximately double the volume of work. 

If this is true here, I'm going to assume that technology is doing the same thing in pretty much every other industry, with maybe the medical field being the exception.

We have more people now, more technology and less jobs because of it.  Unemployment, if something doesn't change is never, ever going to be under 5% ever again.  I'll even argue that at some point it's going to be permanently north of 10%.

Corporations are making more money than ever and paying less taxes than ever.  At some point, corporate america is going to have to make a collective sacrifice or we are going to be a permanent welfare state.

I would love to see politicians start talking about making 30-35 hours a week the new full time norm and provide incentives for companies to take on more workers and basically redistribute wealth, but at least make people work for it. 

What a great country this would be if everyone only had to work 32 hours a week and had more time for their families and had money to spend on top of that.  Kids would turn out better.  Marriages would be strengthened.  We'd be a happier, healthier nation.

Everyone cannot be doctors and nurses or inventors or small business owners.  At some point the job makers/corporations have to do their part and not only bring back jobs to this country that have left, but hire more people and reduce workweek hours without reducing pay and benefits.

so you want to work less, get paid more,  and have the extra money be forcibly taken from someone else and given to you.

got it.

[loco]

so you want to work less, get paid more,  and have the extra money be forcibly taken from someone else and given to you.

got it.

Yup, pretty much what he is saying he wants.  Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain, France, etc. already tried this.  How is that working out for them?

[Dos Equis]

Corporations are making more money than ever and paying less taxes than ever.  At some point, corporate america is going to have to make a collective sacrifice or we are going to be a permanent welfare state.

How did you reach this conclusion? 

[AbrahamG]

All I'm saying is that corporate america has to do it's part.  It's called patriotism.  I'm not saying CEO's work for free or not to make a profit, what I'm saying is that technology isn't producing jobs fast enough to keep up with the population and that maybe it's time to pay americans american living wages and stop exporting jobs.  Profits be damned.  It's all a game to drive up stock prices which again largely benefits the upper 1%.  At the current rate, we are going to be largely a minimum wage/temp worker society.  Hardly the American dream.  Americans are working more hours for less money today than in generations.  It's shameful.

[tonymctones]

Or you can go to school get educated and obtain a job that can't be replaced by a piece of equipment or software.

You like most liberals have this fallacy that businesses are there to support their employees. If you start to look at things from a business perspective you might start advocating laws and legislation that helps keep jobs here and even create new ones

[tonymctones]

All I'm saying is that corporate america has to do it's part.  It's called patriotism.  I'm not saying CEO's work for free or not to make a profit, what I'm saying is that technology isn't producing jobs fast enough to keep up with the population and that maybe it's time to pay americans american living wages and stop exporting jobs.  Profits be damned.  It's all a game to drive up stock prices which again largely benefits the upper 1%.  At the current rate, we are going to be largely a minimum wage/temp worker society.  Hardly the American dream.  Americans are working more hours for less money today than in generations.  It's shameful.

For fucks sake your an ignorant bastard.

One how many people you know have a 401k guess what they have money in securities including stocks.

Two there are plenty of jobs available but the skills that our population has don't match.

You don't get to major in English or art and expect to get a job in engineering or technology.

[AbrahamG]

For fucks sake your an ignorant bastard.

One how many people you know have a 401k guess what they have money in securities including stocks.

Two there are plenty of jobs available but the skills that our population has don't match.

You don't get to major in English or art and expect to get a job in engineering or technology.

Your latent homosexuality aside,  not everyone can be an engineer.  Also, there are a good many who could be engineers but are priced out of the opportunity and face other obstacles.  Improve the quality of primary education and reduce greatly the cost of college and problem solved.

[tonymctones]

Your latent homosexuality aside,  not everyone can be an engineer.  Also, there are a good many who could be engineers but are priced out of the opportunity and face other obstacles.  Improve the quality of primary education and reduce greatly the cost of college and problem solved.

yes yes your cock loving aside as well

There are more than enough opportunities for 99% of the people in this country to go to college if they want to. I myself took out loans and worked to pay for college. Are you telling me others cannot do the same?

what justification do you have that says I am obligated to help you?

sorry you didnt plan your life better, maybe your kids will see your mistakes and avoid them.

[AbrahamG]

yes yes your cock loving aside as well

There are more than enough opportunities for 99% of the people in this country to go to college if they want to. I myself took out loans and worked to pay for college. Are you telling me others cannot do the same?

what justification do you have that says I am obligated to help you?

sorry you didnt plan your life better, maybe your kids will see your mistakes and avoid them.

Is that where you want to be when Jesus comes back?  Making fun of poor little old me?  For the record, I don't need your help.  Do you have statistics, perhaps from drudge or dead andy validating that 99% claim?  God forbid, my kids follow in my footsteps and have their house (not trailer) paid off by 40 and their college tuition already secured.  That would really suck.  Also helping my sister pay for her wedding.  I'm a mess.  My life is in shambles.  My kids are fucked.  Because your unable to produce children is no reason to project on me.

[tonymctones]

Is that where you want to be when Jesus comes back?  Making fun of poor little old me?  For the record, I don't need your help.  Do you have statistics, perhaps from drudge or dead andy validating that 99% claim?  God forbid, my kids follow in my footsteps and have their house (not trailer) paid off by 40 and their college tuition already secured.  That would really suck.  Also helping my sister pay for her wedding.  I'm a mess.  My life is in shambles.  My kids are fucked.  Because your unable to produce children is no reason to project on me.

hahah its hyperbole, a little like your statement on that rising stock prices help the top 1% more

congrats now if you can do it and I can do it, why should we be responsible for others that dont do it by and large b/c of bad choices and lack of effort?

and I have choosen to wait to reproduce, you know to avoid one of those bad choices that seem to go hand in hand with those ppl you feel I am obligated to help

[AbrahamG]

hahah its hyperbole, a little like your statement on that rising stock prices help the top 1% more

congrats now if you can do it and I can do it, why should we be responsible for others that dont do it by and large b/c of bad choices and lack of effort?

and I have choosen to wait to reproduce, you know to avoid one of those bad choices that seem to go hand in hand with those ppl you feel I am obligated to help

I'm ok with helping people.  Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.  I don't really even believe in god.  It just feels right to me to help those less fortunate than me.  No matter what the reason for the misfortune is.

[tonymctones]

I'm ok with helping people.  Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.  I don't really even believe in god.  It just feels right to me to help those less fortunate than me.  No matter what the reason for the misfortune is.

I completely agree, I am very much ok with helping ppl. I volunteer donating money, time and materials to those I feel are less fortunate.

What I am not for is an inefficient and often times corrupt govt with an agenda deeming who needs help and who doesnt and who to take away from and who to give to.

Its not the govts place NOR IS IT YOUR PLACE to tell me who I need to help.

I notice you didnt answer the question, you just gave some ignorant diatribe and completely ignored so Ill ask again

Why should we be responsible for others that dont live responsibily and make bad choices and lack of effort?

[AbrahamG]

I completely agree, I am very much ok with helping ppl. I volunteer donating money, time and materials to those I feel are less fortunate.

What I am not for is an inefficient and often times corrupt govt with an agenda deeming who needs help and who doesnt and who to take away from and who to give to.

Its not the govts place NOR IS IT YOUR PLACE to tell me who I need to help.

I notice you didnt answer the question, you just gave some ignorant diatribe and completely ignored so Ill ask again

Why should we be responsible for others that dont live responsibily and make bad choices and lack of effort?

How do you separate or what is the litmus test to determine who is in bad shape and whose to blame for their circumstance?  I prefer to err on the side of caution.  I'd rather have 1 or 2 people out of 10 scamming the system knowing that the other 8 are being taken care of. 

[tonymctones]

How do you separate or what is the litmus test to determine who is in bad shape and whose to blame for their circumstance?  I prefer to err on the side of caution.  I'd rather have 1 or 2 people out of 10 scamming the system knowing that the other 8 are being taken care of. 

before we go any further answer the fucking question...

Why should we be responsible for others that dont live responsibily and make bad choices and lack of effort?

Ive asked multiple times already

[RRKore]

so you want to work less, get paid more,  and have the extra money be forcibly taken from someone else and given to you.

got it.

How 'bout totally legalize weed so that folks are happy with less?  Oh, wait, too easy to grow your own so the corps that own us all aren't going to go for that.

[AbrahamG]

before we go any further answer the fucking question...

Why should we be responsible for others that dont live responsibily and make bad choices and lack of effort?

Ive asked multiple times already

Keep your panties on, bitch.  The short answer is because it's the brotherly/human thing to do.  Now answer my question.  How do you measure who is a piece of shit vs who is just flat out unfortunate?  Like I said, I'll err on the side of caution every time.  

The real truth here is that you live in an urban legend fantasy world.  As if people who don't live responsibly, make bad choices or whatever are a huge piece of the pie.  They are negligible at best.  

[RRKore]

before we go any further answer the fucking question...

Why should we be responsible for others that dont live responsibily and make bad choices and lack of effort?

Ive asked multiple times already

Because you love your fellow humans?  Your fellow Americans?   Your fellow bodybuilders?  Is there anyone you love?

[RRKore]

congrats now if you can do it and I can do it, why should we be responsible for others that dont do it by and large b/c of bad choices and lack of effort?

I have a serious answer here:  Because you realize that, in addition to your hard work, you had a lot of luck along the way. 

If things had broken even slightly differently, you might (still) be up shit creek.  In these shitty, shitty times, I meet a lot of smart people who were much more responsible than me who are fucked because of things outside of their control.  This idea, btw, can just about drive me crazy when I really dwell on it.  Especially when I widen my consideration to include people in other countries.  Can you imagine how fucked up it is for all the good Iraqi's, the ones who went to university and tried to just have good life, when their country was fucked up courtesy of their idiot leader and the good old USA? 

If you are successful and happy, you are lying to yourself if you think that luck did not play a major role.  So spread it around.  It's what good humans do.

[Roger Bacon]

so you want to work less, get paid more,  and have the extra money be forcibly taken from someone else and given to you.

got it.

It does sound really nice though.  I can see how dumbasses are swayed to vote for the politicians that say this kind of shit over people that make sense like Ron Paul.

[tonymctones]

How 'bout totally legalize weed so that folks are happy with less?  Oh, wait, too easy to grow your own so the corps that own us all aren't going to go for that.

cant have that, govt needs you to want things to be able to tax you

[AbrahamG]

I have a serious answer here:  Because you realize that, in addition to your hard work, you had a lot of luck along the way. 

If things had broken even slightly differently, you might (still) be up shit creek.  In these shitty, shitty times, I meet a lot of smart people who were much more responsible than me who are fucked because of things outside of their control.  This idea, btw, can just about drive me crazy when I really dwell on it.  Especially when I widen my consideration to include people in other countries.  Can you imagine how fucked up it is for all the good Iraqi's, the ones who went to university and tried to just have good life, when their country was fucked up courtesy of their idiot leader and the good old USA? 

If you are successful and happy, you are lying to yourself if you think that luck did not play a major role.  So spread it around.  It's what good humans do.

Solid.  Absolutely solid.  These guys have bought into the American exceptional-ism myth.  They feel better about themselves by believing every thing they have is because of them.  They apply the same thing to homosexuality.  Like they choose to be straight therefore it gives them a feeling of superiority.  

[tonymctones]

Keep your panties on, bitch.  The short answer is because it's the brotherly/human thing to do.  Now answer my question.  How do you measure who is a piece of shit vs who is just flat out unfortunate?  Like I said, I'll err on the side of caution every time.  

The real truth here is that you live in an urban legend fantasy world.  As if people who don't live responsibly, make bad choices or whatever are a huge piece of the pie.  They are negligible at best.  

and you think it should be the govt's job to determine who deserves brotherly love and who deserves to have money forciebly taken to support that love?

who are you to push your beliefs on to others? isnt that what you atheist are always yelling about in regards to religious people?

Im guessing you have no facts to support your opinion that most ppl who need assistance have led perfectly responsible lives and made good decisions throughout?

[AbrahamG]

and you think it should be the govt's job to determine who deserves brotherly love and who deserves to have money forciebly taken to support that love?

who are you to push your beliefs on to others? isnt that what you atheist are always yelling about in regards to religious people?

Im guessing you have no facts to support your opinion that most ppl who need assistance have led perfectly responsible lives and made good decisions throughout?

Where are your "facts" supporting your opinion regarding these very people?

I am waiting shithead.....