Question for the guys that prefer low test cycles....

[_aj_]

How much testosterone is needed for health?
HRT dose in Australia is 250mg every 14 days
I was thinking 0.25cc twice a week with the 250 enanthate?
Obviously I'd measure this with a slin pin lol

In the US it appears to be 150-200mg of cyp every 14-21 days.

[ProudVirgin69]

In the US it appears to be 150-200mg of cyp every 14-21 days.

200mg of test cyp every 2 weeks seems to be the average from what I've seen.

More involved endocrinologists will tincture the dosage to reach blood levels of 800-1000

[ProudVirgin69]

Im the same way, it's always been my favorite.

What other long term health problems have you seen with deca though?

I've seen various research suggesting that it may:

-damage the lining/endothelia of the blood vessels
-cause the heart & left ventricle especially to hypertrophy
-reduce neuroplasticity in the brain
-damage cells at the chromosomal level

Granted, most of the research is based off of animal studies and/or in vitro stuff, but it still gives me pause.  Still probably the mildest steroid though, short of test maybe.

[galeniko]

yah 1gramm is not always the same as 1 gramm.

1 gram test is harsher than 200test+800eq.

whatever you do, for consistent gains just gradualy up the dose and add other compounds.

can up from 200 test to a gramm but whatd be so smart about it, when 200 test+ 400eq will still give results.

[oni]

yah 1gramm is not always the same as 1 gramm.

1 gram test is harsher than 200test+800eq.

whatever you do, for consistent gains just gradualy up the dose and add other compounds.

can up from 200 test to a gramm but whatd be so smart about it, when 200 test+ 400eq will still give results.

All my stuff costs the same, I can only afford 3ml a week + HRT dose test
The boldenone is 200mg/ml. Do you think 125/600 test/equi would be good for growth when lean?
My other options are 500 test + orals, 125/400 test/deca + orals, 125/600 test/deca, 750 test and finally 125/400 test/equi + orals

[Borracho]

yah 1gramm is not always the same as 1 gramm.

1 gram test is harsher than 200test+800eq.

whatever you do, for consistent gains just gradualy up the dose and add other compounds.

can up from 200 test to a gramm but whatd be so smart about it, when 200 test+ 400eq will still give results.

I don't wanna wonder if I'm taking enough you know...it would put my mind at ease just throwing the dose as high as tolerable before I get too old. I wanna be able to maintain on much less in a few years and if I don't do some heavier cycles I doubt I ever will. In my mind that's how it works...a lot of guys juice hard when young/dumber and maintain on much less later on. Then again gh is always an option and I will at some point...definitely in my 40's.

[Big Chiro Flex]

I've seen various research suggesting that it may:

-damage the lining/endothelia of the blood vessels
-cause the heart & left ventricle especially to hypertrophy
-reduce neuroplasticity in the brain
-damage cells at the chromosomal level

Granted, most of the research is based off of animal studies and/or in vitro stuff, but it still gives me pause.  Still probably the mildest steroid though, short of test maybe.

You're killing my muscle buzz bro 

Deca has always been my favorite 

[oni]

I'd also have the option of no test and 800mg equipoise as well as no test with 600 equipoise + an oral (lets say dbol)
What do people here think will be best?
I train for strength, so my "cycles" are 4-6 weeks in length and I alternate high androgens with high anabolics, as it lends itself to the type of training better

[Borracho]

I'd also have the option of no test and 800mg equipoise as well as no test with 600 equipoise + an oral (lets say dbol)
What do people here think will be best?
I train for strength, so my "cycles" are 4-6 weeks in length and I alternate high androgens with high anabolics, as it lends itself to the type of training better

If you're dead set on 4-6 week cycles than don't even bother with eq. At 4-6 weeks you may start feeling some of the benefits of this drug and trust me they're not that great compared to other drugs. Much better drugs for strength...but 4-6 weeks is so short man I wouldn't use anything but orals and short esters.

[oni]

If you're dead set on 4-6 week cycles than don't even bother with eq. At 4-6 weeks you may start feeling some of the benefits of this drug and trust me they're not that great compared to other drugs. Much better drugs for strength...but 4-6 weeks is so short man I wouldn't use anything but orals and short esters.

I've heard this as well, but Clint Darden seems to say otherwise. He told me that everything starts working as soon as you put it in you. The studies with deca show peak blood levels the day after that stay elevated all week

Obviously I don't have experience here though. But Darden seem to think 750 test for 4 weeks followed by 400 deca + orals for 4 weeks and vice versa works really well and he claims to have many top level strongmen doing this with long esters

[Borracho]

I've heard this as well, but Clint Darden seems to say otherwise. He told me that everything starts working as soon as you put it in you. The studies with deca show peak blood levels the day after that stay elevated all week

Obviously I don't have experience here though. But Darden seem to think 750 test for 4 weeks followed by 400 deca + orals for 4 weeks and vice versa works really well and he claims to have many top level strongmen doing this with long esters

It really does get working right away bro. But for the blood levels to reach stable levels and for one to start noticing the cosmetic and strength benefits of anything takes time, especially with the long estered drugs.

Now, I don't know exactly how the guy does his cycles but if they're 4-6 weeks of continually being "on" and just switching steroids around than I can see some benefits. You'll always be flooded with hormones this way...strange method but if its working you can't argue with results.

[Mr Nobody]

lol

here's my leg exercise, i think it's the best choice for me, as i have a bit of turnip thighs and need more lower quad, in fact it's the only leg exercise that i do

thought about adding leg exts and curls but not sure if i need them

the funny thing is, i do about 15 exercsies for my upper body (chest, back, delts, bis, tris) but just do 1 exercise for wheels lol

and yes, my wheels have improved rather nicely from this exercise and i'll even post leg shots on jan 31st to "prove" it

in my honest experience.... hard work+greater training poundages=larger muscles

That is not a Vince Basile built machine    but looks as if it would work the lower quads similar to a hack squat.

[ProudVirgin69]

I'd also have the option of no test and 800mg equipoise as well as no test with 600 equipoise + an oral (lets say dbol)
What do people here think will be best?
I train for strength, so my "cycles" are 4-6 weeks in length and I alternate high androgens with high anabolics, as it lends itself to the type of training better

Eq and an oral, definitely.

[ProudVirgin69]

You're killing my muscle buzz bro 

Deca has always been my favorite 

Yeah I know....this stuff isn't healthy, but I think reasonable doses & clean living keep the total risk minimum.  Healthy & clean diet, lots of cardio, no rec drugs and aas use probably isn't TOO bad, or one can hope

[Big Chiro Flex]

It really does get working right away bro. But for the blood levels to reach stable levels and for one to start noticing the cosmetic and strength benefits of anything takes time, especially with the long estered drugs.

Now, I don't know exactly how the guy does his cycles but if they're 4-6 weeks of continually being "on" and just switching steroids around than I can see some benefits. You'll always be flooded with hormones this way...strange method but if its working you can't argue with results.

Good post.

To add, let us all remember that muscle hypertrophy works through DNA transcription, a process that takes time.

Any "gains" seen immediately are mostly a combination of water, glycogen, electrolytes/sodium within the muscle.

[Christo]

Yeah bro I can see something like that...maybe 250 test 750 eq.

Dbol is pretty good no? lol

I've used it before and even 20 -30mgs gives a pretty good boost and mild on sides for me...tried var and tbol but for the price/gains you can't beat dbol.

Deca I may throw in there at 300mg or something...definitely don't wanna run this one too high cause I've had prolactin sides with it over 500mg or so.

Pretty much what I'm doing here is gonna stack all the steroids I've tried, liked, and responded to for the first time. I've ran a lot of shit on its own...was doing a lot of playing around not too interested in gaining size. But this next year I'm gonna see if I can start adding some muscle again.

I have a question for you Borracho. in all your topics you write about hairloss etc.
What i wanna know is what did you cycle and use previous without having hairloss?
You are always using Finasteride but did you ever did a cycle without finasteride?

[dj181]

That is not a Vince Basile built machine    but looks as if it would work the lower quads similar to a hack squat.

exactly, and that's why i'm doing it

[Christo]

Yup, like you I wanna avoid excessive hair loss and estrogen sides so I just keep test at manageable levels.

I suspect test is important for "size"/mass/scale weight, bc I've never gained much weight even though my physique is always changing.  The anabolics just seem to give me an unnatural appearance--totally what I'm going for

250 test, 750 eq here

why not Test/Primo 250/1000?
Have you ever tried primo?

[Borracho]

I have a question for you Borracho. in all your topics you write about hairloss etc.
What i wanna know is what did you cycle and use previous without having hairloss?
You are always using Finasteride but did you ever did a cycle without finasteride?

Damn.... there's always variables that makes me wonder what is "safe" and what isn't. Like if I had not used topical minoxidil/azelaic acid with deca and low test would I have noticed hairloss?? ...was not on finasteride then but would it have made it worse?

If I had used a higher dose of anavar would I have noticed hair loss...40mg btw

tbol made my scalp itch and had I stayed on it longer would I have started to shed? 40mg again

Do I not respond to finasteride or was it bad quality since I did notice hairloss on 500mg of test...off the finasteride now btw.

Just take out the clippers and shave your head if you wanna avoid all this paranoia.... it'll drive you nuts.

[oni]

Thanks for the help guys
I think I'll stay with low androgens, high anabolics for the most time then.
When I need to grow, I'll go more for deca/dbol. When I just want to train hard and maintain my size I'll go for equipoise. Although I think high testosterone would be good in their somewhere. I'll have to play around with a few things
Then when I need to really ramp weights up, then I'll switch to androgens. What do you think of this?

[Christo]

Damn.... there's always variables that makes me wonder what is "safe" and what isn't. Like if I had not used topical minoxidil/azelaic acid with deca and low test would I have noticed hairloss?? ...was not on finasteride then but would it have made it worse?

If I had used a higher dose of anavar would I have noticed hair loss...40mg btw

tbol made my scalp itch and had I stayed on it longer would I have started to shed? 40mg again

Do I not respond to finasteride or was it bad quality since I did notice hairloss on 500mg of test...off the finasteride now btw.

Just take out the clippers and shave your head if you wanna avoid all this paranoia.... it'll drive you nuts.

True man. i become very crazy for all the uncertain things related to hairloss and AAS, facking shit...

[Borracho]

True man. i become very crazy for all the uncertain things related to hairloss and AAS, facking shit...

You know, for the guys that are just gonna run 12 weeks cycles a couple times a year I wouldn't even worry too much. You're not gonna lose much hair in that time frame if you stay away from the more androgenic/dht based steroids and use some sort of prevention methods as listed in the hair loss thread.

[Mr Nobody]

You know, for the guys that are just gonna run 12 weeks cycles a couple times a year I wouldn't even worry too much. You're not gonna lose much hair in that time frame if you stay away from the more androgenic/dht based steroids and use some sort of prevention methods as listed in the hair loss thread.

Yes, Willem is a steroid head and never lost his hair.

[Borracho]

Yes, Willem is a steroid head and never lost his hair.

 

[kohl]

If you are a bodybuilder for a long time, just for not falling apart you'll need always MINIMUM 1mg of T per lb of bodyweight per week. Personally I need more (around 1,25). That is just for NOT FALLING APART.

For cruising (= holding on to as much muscle mass as possible and making a base for a later blast) that T base needs to be suppleted with a mild anabolic that has a good build up effect. EQ is ideal for that purpose. 600mg EW is a sweet spot for me and many others (slowly changing look, no sides, possible to take year round). D-bol even as little as 20mg ED will preserve fullness without giving sides. This cruise combo can be used year round, some less advanced guys even making nice solid gains on it.

Good enough for those who rather pursue a fitness physique then a bodybuilding physique. Note that this notion changed over time: Frank Zane would be considered a fitness physique today.

Don't think to quickly that you have a bodybuilding physique. I know a lot of tall 250lb guys that I call fitness physiques. Personally I prefer fitness physiques right now. Proportionally less back and trap thickness and less leg mass.