question for the coach, any powerlifters etc

[flinstones1]

For a lazy guy who used machines for years and is now a weak (albeit jacked) guy   ....do you think specialization training is necessary to say bench 400-450 and squat 500 raw?
Im not trying to bench 600 pounds...These aren't exactly out of this world class poundages   but am I wasting my time putting a program together to achieve these numbers? I figure  some plain old testosterone lots of food and some heavy training should do the trick.


Also one more thing...If training for strength is so heavily dependednt no the CNS and plays such a large role in maximal strength,  then why are there so many bodybuilders walking around almost as strong as elite powerlifters? we got a couple guys on this very board who have benched 500 raw....isn't that pretty elite? . don't make me post the video of zack kahn benching 575 raw

[tommywishbone]

Current age? Bodyweight? Best bench? Best squat?

[Complex Carbs]

Tell us about your cock as well bro.

[flinstones1]

Current age? Bodyweight? Best bench? Best squat?

no clue dude I have not maxed out in three years.
For my benches I usually do 295 for a couple sets of 10-15 reps. So I think a bench in the high 300's would sound about right. could this be a 400 bench?

squat? aha.  

not telling

[SF1900]

Flinstones, what is your current heme-iron consumption?

[NordicNerd]

no clue dude I have not maxed out in three years.
For my benches I usually do 295 for a couple sets of 10-15 reps. So I think a bench in the high 300's would sound about right. could this be a 400 bench?

squat? aha.  

not telling

295 x 10 would not equal 400. There are formulas here for estimating 1rm.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-repetition_maximum

[BB]

For a lazy guy who used machines for years and is now a weak (albeit jacked) guy  ....do you think specialization training is necessary to say bench 400-450 and squat 500 raw?

For this? Some specialization, but nothing truly specialized. Something like old style block periodization would work fine. You're young, and you've got drugs and muscle memory on your side. A few cycles of just moving from the mid - low rep ranges, and getting you use to handling the heavier weights should get you into the quoted range.

Also one more thing...If training for strength is so heavily dependednt no the CNS and plays such a large role in maximal strength,  then why are there so many bodybuilders walking around almost as strong as elite powerlifters? we got a couple guys on this very board who have benched 500 raw....isn't that pretty elite? . don't make me post the video of zack kahn benching 575 raw

Drugs, genetics, and heavier body weights, plus a willingness to to work in the lower rep ranges for periods of time. When you look at the pros that are moving heavy weights, their training looks a heck of a lot like early powerlifting training from the 60's - 70's where it alternates between mass building, maintenance, and strength building.

A fast twitch guy, on a couple of grams of party favors, walking around at #275 plus lean pounds, is going to be strong as shit as long as he is willing to push the envelope a bit in terms of progressive overload.

Also the key is almost as strong, but not as strong or beating. Truly specialized stuff works best when you've got weight class athletes where you've tweaked everything you can without moving up a class, and still must eek out gains, or you've got a guy at the top of his game, where you're just trying add a tiny bit here and there by any means.

For the most folks, just progressive overload across different rep ranges, over multiple years should be enough to get them big and strong.

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

I think you should easily be able to squat 500 with lazy machine training only. At least, that's what you can expect from a gifted 10.6 100m runner like yourself. When is the video coming of you running sub 11 at 220 like you claimed?

[cephissus]

295 x 10 would not equal 400. There are formulas here for estimating 1rm.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-repetition_maximum

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

Fuck 1rm calculations, you only know you can lift a weight when you have actually lifted it.

[cephissus]

Fuck 1rm calculations, you only know you can lift a weight when you have actually lifted it.

x2 calculating 1 rm off a 10-15 rm is an absolute joke

[flinstones1]

I think you should easily be able to squat 500 with lazy machine training only. At least, that's what you can expect from a gifted 10.6 100m runner like yourself. When is the video coming of you running sub 11 at 220 like you claimed?

Its going to be at above 220. I made a legitimate offer  to  sev and mensa bob its up to them to decide    the night and the offer was simple. have to run it on video by the summertime...they can agree to it anytime but once they agree there is no backing out. they can agree to the offer any time...scumbag, don't put words in my fucking mouth I even put my account on the fucking line so you can not call me out on it.

ps who are you loser? where is your picture?

that's right your a  fucking nobody.. probably 180 pounds soaking wet. go ride someone elses jock guy..."monster"

[flinstones1]

For this? Some specialization, but nothing truly specialized. Something like old style block periodization would work fine. You're young, and you've got drugs and muscle memory on your side. A few cycles of just moving from the mid - low rep ranges, and getting you use to handling the heavier weights should get you into the quoted range.

Drugs, genetics, and heavier body weights, plus a willingness to to work in the lower rep ranges for periods of time. When you look at the pros that are moving heavy weights, their training looks a heck of a lot like early powerlifting training from the 60's - 70's where it alternates between mass building, maintenance, and strength building.

A fast twitch guy, on a couple of grams of party favors, walking around at #275 plus lean pounds, is going to be strong as shit as long as he is willing to push the envelope a bit in terms of progressive overload.

Also the key is almost as strong, but not as strong or beating. Truly specialized stuff works best when you've got weight class athletes where you've tweaked everything you can without moving up a class, and still must eek out gains, or you've got a guy at the top of his game, where you're just trying add a tiny bit here and there by any means.

For the most folks, just progressive overload across different rep ranges, over multiple years should be enough to get them big and strong.

this is what I was looking for. thanks for the post

[flinstones1]

295 x 10 would not equal 400. There are formulas here for estimating 1rm.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-repetition_maximum

you can not estimate 1rep maxes on formulas because different people possess different muscle fiber types.

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

Its going to be at above 220. I made a legitimate offer  to  sev and mensa bob its up to them to decide    the night and the offer was simple. I get 16 weeks to train for it. they can agree to it anytime but once they agree there is no backing out. they can agree to the offer any time...scumbag, don't put words in my fucking mouth I even put my account on the fucking line so you can not call me out on it.

ps who are you loser? where is your picture?

that's right your a  fucking nobody.. probably 180 pounds soaking wet. go ride someone elses jock guy..."monster"

LMAO, I will call you out for whatever the fuck I want. You´re the one making ridic claims without backing up. Wheter I am 280 or 150 doesn´t matter one bit, you remain a liar/or highly delusional.

[snx]

295 x 10 would not equal 400. There are formulas here for estimating 1rm.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-repetition_maximum

Those formulas don't work well at extreme rep ranges. Old football trick we all knew going into camp.

It's the myth of the 225lb bench.

I remember doing 225 for 25 reps my sophomore year. A few seniors came over and said "shit man, you got a 400lb bench!". I thought to myself, "the fuck I do". I knew I couldn't bench 400. Could barely get up 375. Yet the Epley formula (what the team used) said I would max out at 412lbs. Which I've never been able to lift, ever. Probably never will. But I can still bench 225 for 25 reps (did 28 the other day) and I'm a lot older than I was in my college football days.

I think within the 3 to 5 rep range though, I'm willing to be a little more confident in them. But man, we used to abuse the hell out of those formulas. You had wide receivers in camp lobbying for being able to lift 185 in the bench, because they could do more reps, and hit a 350lb bench, which earned them a name on the school gym plaque and the coveted "350lb bench" t-shirt...which in those days we all thought would be a near guarantee to scoring hot girls at the campus pub. We were wrong. But it was great for intimidating other guys.

I digress now, but even at a young age, I was learning how muscles do nothing for girls, and everything for other guys...but I sure as hell wasn't listening. Blinders on.

[T-REX007]

My experience has been to cycle different sets, reps, rest periods for best gains- 5x5, rest pause, GVT, HFT etc.... 4-6 weeks on each of these varying the reps and assistance work has always proved pretty good for making steady gains

[Kim Jong Bob]

Its going to be at above 220. I made a legitimate offer  to  sev and mensa bob its up to them to decide    the night and the offer was simple. have to run it on video by the summertime...they can agree to it anytime but once they agree there is no backing out. they can agree to the offer any time...scumbag, don't put words in my fucking mouth I even put my account on the fucking line so you can not call me out on it.

ps who are you loser? where is your picture?

that's right your a  fucking nobody.. probably 180 pounds soaking wet. go ride someone elses jock guy..."monster"

lol the thing is you said that you did run 10.6 tren in the other tvread deny it.


Ontopic; 15 reps on 295 cant be so long from a 400 pound bench. Just start to do heavy benchpresses 1 time a week and you will hit 400 in no time. We used to have a powerlifting competition at my gym every year when i was younger like 22...i only did 2months before heavy bemchpresses and heavy squats (i was a bodybuilder not powerlifter). . Didnt follow any program just did  1-4 reps x5 in the  bench and 1-6 reps in the squat

[flinstones1]

Those formulas don't work well at extreme rep ranges. Old football trick we all knew going into camp.

It's the myth of the 225lb bench.

I remember doing 225 for 25 reps my sophomore year. A few seniors came over and said "shit man, you got a 400lb bench!". I thought to myself, "the fuck I do". I knew I couldn't bench 400. Could barely get up 375. Yet the Epley formula (what the team used) said I would max out at 412lbs. Which I've never been able to lift, ever. Probably never will. But I can still bench 225 for 25 reps (did 28 the other day) and I'm a lot older than I was in my college football days.

I think within the 3 to 5 rep range though, I'm willing to be a little more confident in them. But man, we used to abuse the hell out of those formulas. You had wide receivers in camp lobbying for being able to lift 185 in the bench, because they could do more reps, and hit a 350lb bench, which earned them a name on the school gym plaque and the coveted "350lb bench" t-shirt...which in those days we all thought would be a near guarantee to scoring hot girls at the campus pub. We were wrong. But it was great for intimidating other guys.

I digress now, but even at a young age, I was learning how muscles do nothing for girls, and everything for other guys...but I sure as hell wasn't listening. Blinders on.

your probably a red fiber dominate athlete. I got a buddy who benched 425 raw, he can barely do 225 for 20. The more fast twitch muscle fibers you possess the worse you will be with reps. I remember louie simmons talking about mike francois one time, training against one of his best benchers. Mike blasted out 10 reps with 315 on some exercise (I forgot what it was). Powerlifter struggled to get to 10. but when it came time for the one rep max, he beat mike by about 50 pounds.

[liquid_c]

I can't speak for the squat, but having benched pretty high raw, I have personally never used any special training.  By special training, I mean boards, chains, bands speed days etc.  I am not saying those won't help, but I have personally never used them.  I have always trained bench just once a week using a standard pyramid system when I was younger "8/6/4/2 etc.  Now that I am older I have added light days "20/15/10 etc and also one rep max days as I approach a competition where I simulate the 3/4 lifts I would be doing if I was at a competition.  The special training is probably good, but I wouldn't overdo it or spend too much time worrying about it.

[POB]

Ed Coan Bench Press Training Cycle
Enter your RM:


Day 1 - Wednesday

Bench Press
Week
Weight
Reps
Sets
Week 1

10
2
Week 2

10
2
Week 3

8
2
Week 4

8
2
Week 5

5
2
Week 6

5
2
Week 7

5
2
Week 8

3
2
Week 9

3
2
Week 10

2
2
Week 11

2
2
Week 12

1
1

Narrow Grip Bench Press
Week
Weight
Reps
Sets
Week 1

10
2
Week 2

10
2
Week 3

8
2
Week 4

8
2
Week 5

5
2
Week 6

5
2
Week 7

5
2
Week 8

3
2
Week 9

3
2
Week 10

2
2
Week 11

2
2
Week 12

1
1

Incline Bench Press
Week
Weight
Reps
Sets
Week 1

10
2
Week 2

10
2
Week 3

8
2
Week 4

8
2
Week 5

5
2
Week 6

5
2
Week 7

5
2
Week 8

3
2
Week 9

3
2
Week 10

2
2
Week 11

2
2
Week 12

1
1
Day 2 - Saturday

Light Bench Press
Week
Weight
Reps
Sets
Week 1

10
2
Week 2

10
2
Week 3

10
2
Week 4

10
2
Week 5

10
2
Week 6

10
2
Week 7

10
2
Week 8

10
2
Week 9

10
2
Week 10

10
2
Week 11

10
2
Week 12

10
2
On his light days Ed does
2-3 sets of triceps pushdowns (8-10 reps)
1-2 sets of weighted dips (10-12 reps)
He also does some flyes
which he founds therapeutic(torn pec).

^ try this or a 5x5 routine on the same lifts

[Big Chiro Flex]

I can rep 1lb 405 times exactly, so as you can imagine I'm a pretty well built guy.

[Van_Bilderass]

I just wanna say that a 450 bench, nice and clean is a very very respectable bench in my world. The bodybuilders that can bench that, especially at like 220lbs aren't common at all where I'm from. An Olympic deep squat with 500 is very good as well. But if you go a couple of inches over parallel, what most here call parallel then it's something else. Those couple of inches to break parallel could reduce your max by 100lbs easy.

[Mawse]

I've only known one 250+ lb monster bber to bench 455 for a couple of reps, a massive black Npc national level winner shw with 21 inch arms and a 58" chest at about 10% bodyfat... Its hilarious to downplay a huge strength feat like its nothing special.

You will almost never see anyone do that in any gym, ever, even raw pling gyms unless they are super sauced heavier lifters.

[BB]

But the pool has grown quite a bit in the last few years with the corresponding jump in size and drug use with guys. Back in 60's - early 80's, you'd only have a handful of pros both in Powerlifting and Bodybuilding that could get into the mid #400s. Now, I could name maybe 50 - 100 guys across the power sports that could do it on a consistant basis. Granted, it's still a tiny number in the grand scheme of lifters and lifting.


As far Flint goes, I was looking at the bottom end of his range (400 - 450), if he is legitimately getting 10 - 15 with #295 he should be close enough to #405 that he could get it for a new 1 rm in the next year.