Dorian Yates doesn't believe in deadlifts off the floor, totally useless he says

[Mawse]

The original point that deads widen your waist and rack deads don't is pure broscience, both are going to work the core equally hard if done with similar intensity. The only difference is you can fuck your back up a lot more with deads from the floor.

Deadlifting gave me a Foundation of herniated discs, a torn hip labrum, piriformis syndrome and the inability to squat for several months of the year when my disc injuries flare up.

the only reason little 'powerbuilder' turds push the lift so much is because it's 'hard' and the idea that 'hard' work = more results is something most wannabes desparately cling onto in the hope that lifting heavy will somehow result in them looking like a bodybuilder... and they take pleasure in pointing out how Jay only deadlifts 315 in his video 'with straps, what a pussy' as if that makes them somehow better than him.

Last night I did rack deads from the knees , after 90 mins of non stop back work and lots of slow machine shrugs.. 315 done slowly for a couple sets of high reps was more than enough to hit the target muscles.

next to me was a tryhard retard humping up 365 for a max single from the floor with horrible form, then dropping it and giving the gym a 'fuck yeah' look in the hope someone was watching his amazing feat of strength

[njflex]

ANALCHALO....has a good rdb pose,flow wise ,could use some more thickness around and at lat spread points..
and his most muscular his 'fav'is good as well
CONKER...is thick sob ,looks strong as well ,decent abs to go with his size..tell into training and moving weight.relaxed back shot 'traps and upper back and width looks great.
the rest is a pissing match who will cave in or run out of insults,,,

[headhuntersix]

The original point that deads widen your waist and rack deads don't is pure broscience, both are going to work the core equally hard if done with similar intensity. The only difference is you can fuck your back up a lot more with deads from the floor.

Deadlifting gave me a Foundation of herniated discs, a torn hip labrum, piriformis syndrome and the inability to squat for several months of the year when my disc injuries flare up.

the only reason little 'powerbuilder' turds push the lift so much is because it's 'hard' and the idea that 'hard' work = more results is something most wannabes desparately cling onto in the hope that lifting heavy will somehow result in them looking like a bodybuilder... and they take pleasure in pointing out how Jay only deadlifts 315 in his video 'with straps, what a pussy' as if that makes them somehow better than him.

Last night I did rack deads from the knees , after 90 mins of non stop back work and lots of slow machine shrugs.. 315 done slowly for a couple sets of high reps was more than enough to hit the target muscles.

next to me was a tryhard retard humping up 365 for a max single from the floor with horrible form, then dropping it and giving the gym a 'fuck yeah' look in the hope someone was watching his amazing feat of strength

Well I've been doing both for 20 plus years without injury on top of mutiple combat deployments as a tanker..no back injuries so thats all  you dude....another whiny dipshit.

[Mawse]

Well I've been doing both for 20 plus years without injury on top of mutiple combat deployments as a tanker..no back injuries so thats all  you dude....another whiny dipshit.

 you sound like the kind of Natural Hardcore Beast who promotes 'strength training' but lifts less than most high schoolers so it's not that surprising you haven't accumulated many injuries.

we can have a serious conversation about deadlifts and powerlifting and how they relate to bodybuilding if you've totaled more than 1800 raw, hell, let's make it 1600. How does that sound?

[headhuntersix]

Absolutely big guy.....but I train correctly. I've torn a labrum training..but no back issues. So u can try and school me all you want with ur bullshit but if your back failed, it isn't the exercise its you, you failed. As for natural hardcore beast...juice all you want, I could care less. The juice as regards this thread isn't the issue. I train 6 days a week and do a meet every 8-12 weeks. At this point you and your 315 deads are coming off as whiny bitch talk. I'm done...

[Conker]

ANALCHALO....has a good rdb pose,flow wise ,could use some more thickness around and at lat spread points..
and his most muscular his 'fav'is good as well
CONKER...is thick sob ,looks strong as well ,decent abs to go with his size..tell into training and moving weight.relaxed back shot 'traps and upper back and width looks great.
the rest is a pissing match who will cave in or run out of insults,,,

cheers dude. i didn't want to start getting into it with this analholic fella , i was just passing a serious comment and the guy starts calling me a twink lol
anyways all good fun

[headhuntersix]

There is no fun here..somebody must win the argument or the universe will not rest until the balance is restored.

[galeniko]

halo actualy speaking alot of truth in here...............

epic truths from gal tho

yeah and on top of it, the "strong" guys, strong from deadlifts, im not sure theyre realy stronger , rom for rom, rep for rep.

the pain hell is proper training full contraction full rom, puts extremly more stress on the muscle.just bc some bbuilders "seem" "weak" doesnt mean they are.they ust happen to train smartly.its no excuse or anything.

as ive said, i can not step foot in a gym for years, go back there naturaly and deadlift 4 plates a side.what does it mean?it means fuck all

the most extreme example is my legs, apart from the heavyweight competitors on megadoses, i blow all the rest right out of the water.
today i did usual legs day.
20 reps on legpress machine with half the planet fitness styke machine weight stack, couple sets.
couple sets high rep suats with a brutal 1 plate each side
leg curls with about a quarter of the weight available.
why should i do more weight than necesary on the hamcurls machine when i feel if i use too mch all the tension goes to the lower back.

always keep the abs tight

when i "trained" legs with 4plates each side quarterrep squats(but telling myself its parralel,haha), the legs looked like shit.

not sure if ppl realize to be able to perform 4 plates squats with perfect form for 10 reps, no cheating at all, this is gonna take monstrous legs.

will this kind of training mean im giving up few lbs of muscle over heavy training?maybe, but so what.

[galeniko]

Yes, and when you dont build some foundation naturally, and go off gear, you will look like this:



Guys that are all drugs lose everything and look like Prince. At least if you build some muscle naturally, you will still keep something, even if you stop training.

hm, we must or should point out that tom prince didnt just go off drugs, he also went off diet for sure(when the kidney is shot, theres no more high protein diet),and off training too.

but yes, most all the steroid gains one can kiss goodbye when they totaly go off.thats part of the deal with the dark side

[Coach is Back!]

You tell me. Both work just fine. Either from the floor or rack deads.

[galeniko]

IME the vast majority of people that don't deadlift or squat will come out with a million justifications as to why it's pointless or how this or that one doesn't, but when it boils down to it 90% + just don't do it because it is actually physically harder and more demanding than all the other movements.





This is what nearly everyone does with a lift they dont like or suck at.and honestly that all that is happening here.

nah, thats wrong, im very strong at deadlift yet sont do them,they dont do much for me.

im shit benchpresser and still do it, i find it a good upper body exercise.

i hate doing machine rows for back ,its very stressfull,moreso than deadlift, but its brought me beter results,so i do it.

[galeniko]

You are pushing more weight, week in, week out, but it's less than your max for the majority of the cycle..    There's also deload weeks every fourth week as well, using only 50% of your max.

And, I can't agree with your last statement - I train to maintain athletic performance, and getting stronger helps that.

you cant alway get stronger,its not possible.

strenght has to do with how much rested, what was eaten over last days, etc, too many factors, if one would always shoot for more strenght theyde either get fat and or muscular progress be held back.

as someone said, i do it for the cosmetical changes, nothing else.

or, why not lift more weight by doing more sets overall at bit lighter weight?

the total lifted will be more.

[galeniko]

The original point that deads widen your waist and rack deads don't is pure broscience, both are going to work the core equally hard if done with similar intensity. The only difference is you can fuck your back up a lot more with deads from the floor.

Deadlifting gave me a Foundation of herniated discs, a torn hip labrum, piriformis syndrome and the inability to squat for several months of the year when my disc injuries flare up.

the only reason little 'powerbuilder' turds push the lift so much is because it's 'hard' and the idea that 'hard' work = more results is something most wannabes desparately cling onto in the hope that lifting heavy will somehow result in them looking like a bodybuilder... and they take pleasure in pointing out how Jay only deadlifts 315 in his video 'with straps, what a pussy' as if that makes them somehow better than him.

Last night I did rack deads from the knees , after 90 mins of non stop back work and lots of slow machine shrugs.. 315 done slowly for a couple sets of high reps was more than enough to hit the target muscles.

next to me was a tryhard retard humping up 365 for a max single from the floor with horrible form, then dropping it and giving the gym a 'fuck yeah' look in the hope someone was watching his amazing feat of strength

i love the term powerbuilders haha
what they gonna do with that power?walk intimidate looking in the street?

they say 5,3,1 deadlift is harder than what ay cutler does.

i say its the other way around

[Grape Ape]

you cant alway get stronger,its not possible.

strenght has to do with how much rested, what was eaten over last days, etc, too many factors, if one would always shoot for more strenght theyde either get fat and or muscular progress be held back.

as someone said, i do it for the cosmetical changes, nothing else.

or, why not lift more weight by doing more sets overall at bit lighter weight?

the total lifted will be more.

I was the one who said you do it for cosmetic, and agreed to that extent.

I'm using 5/3/1 to gain my strength back after a surgical procedure.  It's easy to follow and has been working.   I realize it will plateau, then I will mix it up with something different after that.

[flinstones1]

Who is Wendler and why am I supposed to listen to his advices ?

I know he played football at ASU and trained at westisde. nice guy but   always seemed like a bit of a whacko

[hardgainerj]

The original point that deads widen your waist and rack deads don't is pure broscience, both are going to work the core equally hard if done with similar intensity. The only difference is you can fuck your back up a lot more with deads from the floor.

Deadlifting gave me a Foundation of herniated discs, a torn hip labrum, piriformis syndrome and the inability to squat for several months of the year when my disc injuries flare up.

the only reason little 'powerbuilder' turds push the lift so much is because it's 'hard' and the idea that 'hard' work = more results is something most wannabes desparately cling onto in the hope that lifting heavy will somehow result in them looking like a bodybuilder... and they take pleasure in pointing out how Jay only deadlifts 315 in his video 'with straps, what a pussy' as if that makes them somehow better than him.

Last night I did rack deads from the knees , after 90 mins of non stop back work and lots of slow machine shrugs.. 315 done slowly for a couple sets of high reps was more than enough to hit the target muscles.

next to me was a tryhard retard humping up 365 for a max single from the floor with horrible form, then dropping it and giving the gym a 'fuck yeah' look in the hope someone was watching his amazing feat of strength

you got injured because you dont know how to properly DL

[SF1900]

How does either one of you know whether Tom Prince did or didn't build a "natural foundation". Seems to ke the kidney failure might be responsible for his drastic loss of muscle

Nonsense. This happens to  A LOT of bodybuilders. I can understand if it was an isolated incident, but look at Mustafa Mohhamed (pic below). And those bodybuilders that go off the cycle, eventually realize that they still have to use some gear to keep any muscle size. Look at Levrone and Flex. They are still not natural. Once they went totally off gear they looked like they never touched a weight in their life. Now they are back to being somewhat muscular because they most likely started to use gear again. There is no other way for these guys, kidney failure or not. Its 100% natural and look like utter shit, or continue to juice to keep some size.

[Palpatine Q]

Nonsense. This happens to  A LOT of bodybuilders. I can understand if it was an isolated incident, but look at Mustafa Mohhamed (pic below). And those bodybuilders that go off the cycle, eventually realize that they still have to use some gear to keep any muscle size. Look at Levrone and Flex. They are still not natural. Once they went totally off gear they looked like they never touched a weight in their life. Now they are back to being somewhat muscular because they most likely started to use gear again. There is no other way for these guys, kidney failure or not. Its 100% natural and look like utter shit, or continue to juice to keep some size.

Yeah but that's a different discussion. .whether you can ever regain normal T levels after years of abuse.

The question was about building a natural base no ?  I'm sure most lifters start with the basics..even the pros when they were just starting out.

[SF1900]

Yeah but that's a different discussion. .whether you can ever regain normal T levels after years of abuse.

The question was about building a natural base no ?  I'm sure most lifters start with the basics..even the pros when they were just starting out.

Yeah, but I wonder how many actually built a natural base. In my opinion building a natural base doesnt mean training naturally from 12 years old to 15 years, then taking gear from 16 years old to 40 years old. I think to build a natural base, you need to probably work out naturally at least to your early 20's at least, then juice (if you want to). Look at Bostin Loyd. That moron is going to deflate once he stops using. He most likely started to juice too early.

Then again, I know shit about using any gear. But seems like people are too quick to jump on, then later on in life, they cant hold onto any muscle.

[galeniko]

nah please stop citing ex bbuildrs who have stopped training and dieting lol, please, this is ridiculous haha.


ofcourse they gonna look like nothing if they dont train anymore.

same would happen to a natural.


and this by no means that in exchange someone who now looks like tom prince(hes shot his kidneys for christ sake he cant eat protein,barely any)or mustafa,it doesnt mean if they took enough drugs they become the tom pronce in his prime or suatafa guy.

when galeniko goes off, went off actually, and stll diets eats the proteins and trains, the downsizing wont be so bad,esp for low dose ppl.ill be bit smaller and little bit fatter but thats it nothing too dramatic.

hell i dont even lose the slight bit size when i stop training altogether,i just get very fat.

theres 2 options post going off, remain lean and youll be thin and have to be very strict on diet, or you dont care and eat all in sight all day and dont actualy lse much size, but get very very fat.

to cite a pro ifbb who was on olympia stage on everything buffet drugs in the world, with later on pics where the kidneys have failed and cant even train is ridiculous.

look levrone, his size is quite still there.it looks bit misleading bc hes not shredded enough, but his arms are huge, not much smaller diameter than when he was on.hed have to jump on cycle and serious diet and hed look close to his old self soon, and his arms wouldnt even grow much,theyd just get better conditioning and thus look much bigger.

jp fuxs legs are also very small currently, why not cite him too lol,he torn every muscle known to men in his legs, hes small these days.

i dont care how much drugs the pros take, it takes hard work and dedication to get where they are none the less.

lol, i tried in the initila years to live the suppesedly perfect plan, as many peds as affordable(15 years ago was not so cheap), eat much protein all 3 hours etc,the works, and what happened?not much i didnt get even remotely close to pro level size,let alone conditioning.

and yes,when they go off they will have very low test levels

[SF1900]

nah please stop citing ex bbuildrs who have stopped training and dieting lol, please, this is ridiculous haha.


ofcourse they gonna look like nothing if they dont train anymore.

same would happen to a natural.


and this by no means that in exchange someone who now looks like tom prince(hes shot his kidneys for christ sake he cant eat protein,barely any)or mustafa,it doesnt mean if they took enough drugs they become the tom pronce in his prime or suatafa guy.

when galeniko goes off, went off actually, and stll diets eats the proteins and trains, the downsizing wont be so bad,esp for low dose ppl.ill be bit smaller and little bit fatter but thats it nothing too dramatic.

hell i dont even lose the slight bit size when i stop training altogether,i just get very fat.

theres 2 options post going off, remain lean and youll be thin and have to be very strict on diet, or you dont care and eat all in sight all day and dont actualy lse much size, but get very very fat.

to cite a pro ifbb who was on olympia stage on everything buffet drugs in the world, with later on pics where the kidneys have failed and cant even train is ridiculous.

look levrone, his size is quite still there.it looks bit misleading bc hes not shredded enough, but his arms are huge, not much smaller diameter than when he was on.hed have to jump on cycle and serious diet and hed look close to his old self soon, and his arms wouldnt even grow much,theyd just get better conditioning and thus look much bigger.

jp fuxs legs are also very small currently, why not cite him too lol,he torn every muscle known to men in his legs, hes small these days.

i dont care how much drugs the pros take, it takes hard work and dedication to get where they are none the less.

lol, i tried in the initila years to live the suppesedly perfect plan, as many peds as affordable(15 years ago was not so cheap), eat much protein all 3 hours etc,the works, and what happened?not much i didnt get even remotely close to pro level size,let alone conditioning.

and yes,when they go off they will have very low test levels

Even if they didnt train, they would shrink down worse than a guy who never built a solid foundation. As was stated by someone else, many old timers who dont train any more still have those broad shoulders and big forearms. They are nowhere near what they used to be, but you can still see remnants of some muscle. Pro bodybuilders shrink down to absolutely nothing.

[cephissus]

lol @ people who think olympians from the 90s never "built a base"

by the way, I deadlifted 515 as a tiny natural with no muscle mass whatsoever and a completely flat, paper-thin back

[macos]

i want maximal development

but then again

i dont want to make the waist wide if not needed


so what do i do?

Make shoulders big....real big.
Dorian had huge joints to begin with. His waist would have been big without the deadlifts.

[Cleanest Natural]

yeah and on top of it, the "strong" guys, strong from deadlifts, im not sure theyre realy stronger , rom for rom, rep for rep.

the pain hell is proper training full contraction full rom, puts extremly more stress on the muscle.just bc some bbuilders "seem" "weak" doesnt mean they are.they ust happen to train smartly.its no excuse or anything.

as ive said, i can not step foot in a gym for years, go back there naturaly and deadlift 4 plates a side.what does it mean?it means fuck all

the most extreme example is my legs, apart from the heavyweight competitors on megadoses, i blow all the rest right out of the water.
today i did usual legs day.
20 reps on legpress machine with half the planet fitness styke machine weight stack, couple sets.
couple sets high rep suats with a brutal 1 plate each side
leg curls with about a quarter of the weight available.
why should i do more weight than necesary on the hamcurls machine when i feel if i use too mch all the tension goes to the lower back.

always keep the abs tight

when i "trained" legs with 4plates each side quarterrep squats(but telling myself its parralel,haha), the legs looked like shit.

not sure if ppl realize to be able to perform 4 plates squats with perfect form for 10 reps, no cheating at all, this is gonna take monstrous legs.

will this kind of training mean im giving up few lbs of muscle over heavy training?maybe, but so what.

smart guy here

here's me training with similar very light weights and focusing on stimulating the muscle

[Method101]

at the time of the famous green t shirt picture I could deadlift 405x1 and 315x10 - no lie. I just do dumbbell rows now because the deadlift can cause injuries which I would rather avoid.