Dorian Yates doesn't believe in deadlifts off the floor, totally useless he says

[Van_Bilderass]

All things being equal, the heavier you can train the bigger the hypertrophic response.
No one really believes otherwise.

[bigmc]

All things being equal, the heavier you can train the bigger the hypertrophic response.
No one really believes otherwise.

milos sarcev does

[flinstones1]

Yeah, but I wonder how many actually built a natural base. In my opinion building a natural base doesnt mean training naturally from 12 years old to 15 years, then taking gear from 16 years old to 40 years old. I think to build a natural base, you need to probably work out naturally at least to your early 20's at least, then juice (if you want to). Look at Bostin Loyd. That moron is going to deflate once he stops using. He most likely started to juice too early.

Then again, I know shit about using any gear. But seems like people are too quick to jump on, then later on in life, they cant hold onto any muscle.

this is false. We need to look at what natural foundation truly means.

The longer you stay on steroids, and the higher doses, the more permanent  physiological changes occur in muscle tissue. A guy who has been on grams of test for a decade,  who later goes on TRT in his forties will have a huge advantage over a natural guy who goes on TRT who has never used gear. This at least holds true for testosterone and its various esters. Guys think taking steroids is just like filling up a water balloon and once the balloon pops its over, this is so not true.

[galeniko]

All things being equal, the heavier you can train the bigger the hypertrophic response.
No one really believes otherwise.

yah, all things being equal, esp form, agreed.


but ask yourself, can you for example flex the legs or biceps or chest just as hard as when the bar is loaded is half the maximum weight you could use?

i can and cana ctualy control the movement much better that way, when too close to max, the feeling gets "numb" if you know what i mean.

besides that, say in a typical pyramid up and then down training session, the very heavy sets will be few, most will be 50-70% of 1 rep max, this is how most bbers train, whether they want or not, in some way they all taper up weight, be it for warm up or not(nobody goes dead cold into gym and does 1rep max lol),then the heavy sets while the energy is there, then few pump sets.

i dont think the growht is coming from those few heaviest sets.

also, what if one uses pre exhaustion, he wont be able to lift as heavy as usual on compound exercises, but the muscle atleast will not get smaller.

at the time of the famous green t shirt picture I could deadlift 405x1 and 315x10 - no lie.

youre a good guy , being able to laugh about oneself is important,lol, and that said yes i do believe you could lift that.

btw theres one form of deadlifting which puts say usable pressure on the back muscle, but i think its a retarded way to do it and inferior to rows.

oh well, ppl who want may deadlift away.its said to give huge forearms too

milos sarcev does

good point.arguably milos isnt a monster of mass, but hes big enough.i always forget about him, even though, 1 day i checked a training video of him(i usualy never do check their vids)and find myself suprised that its about the same i do.i then copied some of his stuff and aded to my arsenal

[anabolichalo]

milos built his size on heavy weights to the point of having muscles teear off the bone


IRRC

[njflex]

smart guy here

here's me training with similar very light weights and focusing on stimulating the muscle

2007 I THOUGHT U WERE SQUATTING 500 AND BENCHING 400 THEN?OR WAS THAT BEFORE THE BLOATED DBOL PICS TIME?

[chaos]

2007 I THOUGHT U WERE SQUATTING 500 AND BENCHING 400 THEN?OR WAS THAT BEFORE THE BLOATED DBOL PICS TIME?

Some people don't like to be reminded that lifting heavy is what built their muscle in the first place.

[bigmc]

Some people don't like to be reminded that lifting heavy is what built their muscle in the first place.

my take is you start lifting heavy

then ease off as you get old

I used to lift like a psycho and got a lot of injuries

now I just try and maintain what I have

I never go below six reps on anything

[Grape Ape]

my take is you start lifting heavy

then ease off as you get old

I used to lift like a psycho and got a lot of injuries

now I just try and maintain what I have

I never go below six reps on anything

I think this makes sense.  Funny thing though, I rarely go ABOVE six reps on the major compound movements.   Squats/DLs are often 10 sets of 2-3 or something....varies though.

[CalvinH]

my take is you start lifting heavy

then ease off as you get old

I used to lift like a psycho and got a lot of injuries

now I just try and maintain what I have

I never go below six reps on anything

Also need to take in consideration if you're on or not

[Cleanest Natural]

All things being equal, the heavier you can train the bigger the hypertrophic response.
No one really believes otherwise.

I don't agree with this.. I thin the more you tolerate the bigger the response...there is so much training to do.otherwise it becomes too much and unnecessary.

[musclecenter]

Heavy deadlifts widen the waist!

[Hulkotron]

I deadlift and my waist is slender yet masculine.

I HTH

[galeniko]

Some people don't like to be reminded that lifting heavy is what built their muscle in the first place.

hm good point but lets stateo it like this, this is more accurate:

the heavy lifting early on strenghtens the tendons,joints and enables for later on better muscle mind connection, for later you can use smaller weights but "play" around with them, and control the, properly.

i think this is the most accurate description.

thinking of this, im not sure if i could squat like i do these days, if i didnt build up the strenght before.sure i did everything wrong in the early years haha, but it did build some strenght foundation.

cant tell if it would have worked otherwise, cant rewind time

or lets say like this, strenght potential will be 90% maxed out after pretty soon(relatively) and its not worth it for a bbuilder to go any further into it, he should from then on focus on diet and good rom , form,etc.with a frequent heavy training day or few sets here and there.

at some point, going for heavier and heavier the risks outweigh the reward, esp muscle growht wise.

yah something like this, i think we have an agreement of kinds

Heavy deadlifts widen the waist!

but you dont mind a little bit gapind and widening of stuff

[chaos]

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Whatever works for you ladies.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Whatever works for you ladies.

X2

We should grab a sugar free raspberry vanilla chai latte next time in in CA and talk about these phaggots and their girly physiques.

[njflex]

X2

We should grab a sugar free raspberry vanilla chai latte next time in in CA and talk about these phaggots and their girly physiques.

NO HOMO..

[anabolichalo]

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Whatever works for you ladies.

irrational comments arent useful


what are you really saying here

[Cleanest Natural]

2007 I THOUGHT U WERE SQUATTING 500 AND BENCHING 400 THEN?OR WAS THAT BEFORE THE BLOATED DBOL PICS TIME?

you thought wrong. in yellow i squated 500 on dbol

[Van_Bilderass]

milos sarcev does

He didn't though.

How come he hack squatted 900lbs and blew out his quads if he didn't believe in heavy weight?
How come his quads were his best bodypart while he was known to move big loads in leg movements? How come he was not known to be a strong presser while he lacked upper body thickness?

Not even Milos believes in what he says, not really. There would never have been a reason to risk injury with heavy weights if he did.

[chaos]

irrational comments arent useful


what are you really saying here

Full range of motion to get the best results. You want to do half deads? Do them in a rack, they're called rack pulls.

[Cleanest Natural]

I tried all methods .. if I were to do it all over again, I would do low weight and high volume. Much better and equal if not better developement

[Van_Bilderass]

yah, all things being equal, esp form, agreed.


but ask yourself, can you for example flex the legs or biceps or chest just as hard as when the bar is loaded is half the maximum weight you could use?

i can and cana ctualy control the movement much better that way, when too close to max, the feeling gets "numb" if you know what i mean.

Like you say the form may change when you increase load, so things aren't equal anymore.
Progressive resistance is the name of the game, all things being equal.

I think this mind-muscle connection and squeezing thing is overrated though. I can get a crazy ass pump squatting an empty bar but it will do jack shit to grow muscle. Would Tom Platz have had the legs he did if he never went above say 225 on squats, even if he queezed and flexed his muscles with full force? I say no.

An example. Say I can leg extension 100lbs for 12 reps with perfect form, controlled with a pause at the top etc, whatever you think will increase growth, all while thinking of something completely not related to training. Say I compare that to doing leg extensions with 50lbs for 12 reps while I concentrate intensely on the muscle doing the work, squeezing and tensing as hard as possible. Which will stimulate more growth? The 100lb set.

No one believes in 100% picture perfect form over load. I haven't seen one single bb always training with perfect form, never even slightly sacrificing form over load. Everyone instinctively knows you need a certain load for it to be effective. Getting a pump, being exhausted, squeezing and tensing hard, all that is secondary. No bodybuilder wanting to grow stays with 1 plate a side on squats or presses or deads... even when all of them could kill themselves even with such a light load. The load is just too light to do anything.

Let me ask you this. Let's say someone paid you 1000 bucks for each gram of muscle you gained on your legs over the next six months and you were really motivated to gain as much as possible. Would you still only squat 1 plate? I bet not.

[Van_Bilderass]

Full range of motion to get the best results. You want to do half deads? Do them in a rack, they're called rack pulls.

There is no such thing as full range of motion when talking of the common exercises. Who decided deadlifting should be done from the height the common 45lb plate is set at? Which muscle are fully extended and fully contracted through the common floor deadlift? This reasoning can be applied to any exercise.

Basically none of the common exercises work a muscle through its full range of motion, while applying resistance throughout.

Muscle basically knows tension. That's pretty much it.

[Van_Bilderass]

Where did you guys read that Yates did rack deadlifts. Was never mentioned in any Yates article while he was competing. His video showed, and all articles mentioned floor deadlifts at the end of the back workout. Something like 440lbs for 8 reps IIRC. He cited risk of injury for his caution. Maybe he had lower back problems.