Author Topic: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?  (Read 90527 times)

Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #325 on: June 05, 2014, 03:42:26 PM »
so why is it only that one sin that he has a problem with and yet has no problem ignoring all other sins

it's not like he's performing the wedding ceremony

all he is doing is baking a cake

I wonder if he asks people getting re-married after having been divorced if their divorces were for reasons condoned in the bible.
If not, then isn't he condoning their wedding by baking them a cake.   He should really require copies of the divorce decree from every couple to make sure their divorce was acceptable reasons in the eyes of his god

Hes not ignoring or condoning the other sins. The difference is he is not being specifically requested to commemorate them as he is with the gay wedding. 
 
He is not being requested to bake a cake in reference to the divorce.
A

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #326 on: June 05, 2014, 04:00:40 PM »
Hes not ignoring or condoning the other sins. The difference is he is not being specifically requested to commemorate them as he is with the gay wedding. 
 
He is not being requested to bake a cake in reference to the divorce.


yes, but if they didn't divorce for biblically approved reasons they he is condoning their new marriage (based on the assumption that merely baking a cake = tacit approval of the event for which the cake is being used)

how about an unmarried couple that wants a cake celebrating their anniversary.  By providing a cake for that occasion he is condoning adultery.

BTW - you started out agreeing with  my premise.....remember?

I assume this baker also refuses to make cakes for anyone who has committed adultery or for that matter anyone who works on the sabbath or wears clothes "mingled of linen and woolen" or anyone with a tattoo

He might have if presented with those situations.

Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #327 on: June 06, 2014, 01:43:10 PM »
yes, but if they didn't divorce for biblically approved reasons they he is condoning their new marriage (based on the assumption that merely baking a cake = tacit approval of the event for which the cake is being used)

how about an unmarried couple that wants a cake celebrating their anniversary.  By providing a cake for that occasion he is condoning adultery.

BTW - you started out agreeing with  my premise.....remember?


There would be no tacit approval.  When he is baking a cake for your example couple, the cake isn't being made to celebrate anything other than the new marriage.  Its not a happy adultery cake.   Hes free to ask them about whether they were divorced from their previous spouses in a way that was sanctioned according to the bible and make a choice from their whether he wants to bake their cake. 


As I mentioned before, if the gay couple had requested a cake for one of their birthdays the baker would not have grounds to refuse service because the cake is neither condoning or celebrating a life style he finds morally objectionable.

If the baker is requested to SPECIFICALLY bake a cake celebrating an unmarried couples anniversary he should have the right to refuse if he chooses. 
A

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #328 on: June 06, 2014, 01:45:05 PM »
There would be no tacit approval.  When he is baking a cake for your example couple, the cake isn't being made to celebrate anything other than the new marriage.  Its not a happy adultery cake.   Hes free to ask them about whether they were divorced from their previous spouses in a way that was sanctioned according to the bible and make a choice from their whether he wants to bake their cake.  


As I mentioned before, if the gay couple had requested a cake for one of their birthdays the baker would not have grounds to refuse service because the cake is neither condoning or celebrating a life style he finds morally objectionable.

If the baker is requested to SPECIFICALLY bake a cake celebrating an unmarried couples anniversary he should have the right to refuse if he chooses.  

I said an unmarried couple celebrating an anniversary so yes they would be celebrating the anniversary of an adulterous relationship

Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #329 on: June 06, 2014, 01:53:29 PM »
I said an unmarried couple celebrating an anniversary so yes they would be celebrating the anniversary of an adulterous relationship

And he has the right to refuse if he possesses the knowledge to make that decision.
A

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #330 on: June 06, 2014, 02:02:43 PM »
And he has the right to refuse if he possesses the knowledge to make that decision.

actually he doesn't have that right for the same reason that he doesn't have the right to refuse to sell a cake to the gay couple


Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #331 on: June 06, 2014, 02:14:26 PM »
actually he doesn't have that right for the same reason that he doesn't have the right to refuse to sell a cake to the gay couple



He should have the right which is the entire point of this thread, to debate over that very fact.  Are you Vince?


A

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #332 on: June 06, 2014, 02:38:32 PM »
He should have the right which is the entire point of this thread, to debate over that very fact.  Are you Vince?

the point of this thread is that he doesn't have the right to discriminate


Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #333 on: June 06, 2014, 03:44:50 PM »
the point of this thread is that he doesn't have the right to discriminate



Obviously you missed the point of this thread completely.   The discussion was about whether forcing the baker to make the cake is right.
A

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #334 on: June 06, 2014, 04:02:36 PM »
Obviously you missed the point of this thread completely.   The discussion was about whether forcing the baker to make the cake is right.

yeah, it's a real bummer that the courts have said he can't discriminate against gay people

shit, next thing you know black people will expect to be served in white restaurant and then they'll want to live in white neighborhoods


Necrosis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9899
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #335 on: June 06, 2014, 04:21:11 PM »
yeah, it's a real bummer that the courts have said he can't discriminate against gay people

shit, next thing you know black people will expect to be served in white restaurant and then they'll want to live in white neighborhoods



who is gay?

Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #336 on: June 06, 2014, 04:54:01 PM »
yeah, it's a real bummer that the courts have said he can't discriminate against gay people

shit, next thing you know black people will expect to be served in white restaurant and then they'll want to live in white neighborhoods



Strawman just made a strawman argument.  You are totally incapable of engaging in debate. How old are you?
A

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #337 on: June 06, 2014, 07:06:07 PM »

Strawman just made a strawman argument.  You are totally incapable of engaging in debate. How old are you?

You don't actually know what a Straw Man argument is..do you?

The courts determined that this man discriminated against this gay couple

Do you agree that is what the decision of the court was?

Dago_Joe

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 997
  • Better to look good than to feel good: ALWAYS
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #338 on: June 16, 2014, 09:00:18 AM »
actually he doesn't have that right for the same reason that he doesn't have the right to refuse to sell a cake to the gay couple



Fucks sake this thread is still going?!!  HE HAS THE RIGHT TO REFUSE TO BAKE A CAKE TO ANYONE HE DAMN FUCKING WELL PLEASES FOR WHATEVER DAMN FUCKING REASON HE WANTS!! 

RRKore

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2628
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #339 on: June 16, 2014, 10:15:39 PM »
Fucks sake this thread is still going?!!  HE HAS THE RIGHT TO REFUSE TO BAKE A CAKE TO ANYONE HE DAMN FUCKING WELL PLEASES FOR WHATEVER DAMN FUCKING REASON HE WANTS!! 

Oh, for real?  Whatever damn fucking reason he wants?  In the USA? 

I thinks not, Tyrell, I thinks not.

avxo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5605
  • Iron Pumping University Math Professor
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #340 on: June 16, 2014, 10:46:54 PM »
Oh, for real?  Whatever damn fucking reason he wants?  In the USA? 

I thinks not, Tyrell, I thinks not.

He should be. For any reason, even for no reason at all. I don't believe people should be forced to act against their will.

RRKore

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2628
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #341 on: June 16, 2014, 11:18:26 PM »
He should be. For any reason, even for no reason at all. I don't believe people should be forced to act against their will.

There's a case to be made for that, sure. 

But that's not the same thing as saying, "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO REFUSE TO BAKE A CAKE TO ANYONE HE DAMN FUCKING WELL PLEASES FOR WHATEVER DAMN FUCKING REASON HE WANTS!!"

Inject "should have" (or "SHOULD HAVE", lol) in place of the 2nd word in the sentence and I gots no problem with ol' Dago Joe's all-caps pronouncement.

Roger Bacon

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20957
  • Roger Bacon tries to be witty and fails
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #342 on: June 17, 2014, 12:47:55 AM »
He should be. For any reason, even for no reason at all. I don't believe people should be forced to act against their will.

x3

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #343 on: February 03, 2015, 03:57:23 PM »
Christian bakers face government wrath for refusing to make cake for gay wedding
By Todd Starnes
Published February 03, 2015
FoxNews.com

FILE - In this undated photograph Aaron Klein stands behind the counter of his Oregon bakery, Sweet Cakes by Melissa. Since this photo was taken the store has closed. The Kleins now operate their bakery business out of their home. (Sweet Cakes by Melissa)
Aaron and Melissa Klein refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, and now they must pay for their crime.

An Oregon administrative law judge ruled on Jan. 29 that the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa did, in fact, discriminate in 2013 when they declined to provide a wedding cake for a lesbian couple because it would have violated their Christian beliefs against same-sex marriage.

The judge’s ruling paves the way for a March 10 hearing at which the Christian business owners could be ordered to pay $200,000 in fines and damages.

“You cannot discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation,” Paul Thompson, the attorney representing the lesbian couple, told The Oregonian. “The entire time, I felt the law was very much on our side because the law is black and white.”

You can read the judge’s 52-page order here.

Last year, investigators concluded the bakers had violated the couple’s rights to equal treatment in places that serve the public. State law bans discrimination against LGBT people in places that serve the public — and that includes bakeries.

I spoke with Aaron Klein by telephone Monday night. He told me the judge’s ruling is a miscarriage of justice and an erosion of religious liberty.

“They’re trying to push us into the closet for being Christians,” he said.

Klein said it’s time for Americans to take a stand for religious liberty.

“The Founding Fathers said we have the inalienable rights given by God — not man,” he said. “Let’s exercise those rights.”

The Kleins’ troubles started in January 2013 when they turned away that lesbian couple. The bakers were relentlessly pummeled in the media. LGBT activists launched protests and boycotts. They tell me their small children even received death threats — simply because they chose to follow the teachings of their faith.

At some point the activists threatened to launch boycotts against any wedding vendor that did business with the Kleins. That turned out to be the death blow to their retail shop. Today, Melissa bakes cakes out of the family’s home.

The question now is how much — if anything — the Kleins will be forced to pay. Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian will decide, and history proves he’s no friend of the Christian bakers.

In 2013, Avakian told The Oregonian that it is the government’s desire was to rehabilitate businesses like the one owned by the Kleins.

“Everybody is entitled to their own beliefs, but that doesn’t mean that folks have the right to discriminate,” he told the newspaper. “The goal is never to shut down a business. The goal is to rehabilitate.”

Rehabilitate? He wants to ship the Christians off to a government-sanctioned re-education camp?

Aaron Klein told me there will be no reconciliation and there will be no rehabilitation. He and his wife will not back down from their Christian beliefs.

“There’s nothing wrong with what we believe,” he said. “It’s a biblical point of view. It’s my faith. It’s my religion.”

Klein said the ruling, which he called “absolutely absurd,” does not surprise him.

“I’ve never seen a government entity use a law to come after somebody because they have a religious view,” he said. “I truly believe Brad Avakian is trying to send a message. I don’t think the constitution of the state of Oregon means anything to these people.”

And I’m afraid there are more narrow-minded government officials just like Avakian.

Kelvin Cochran was fired from his job as the fire chief of Atlanta after he wrote a book that affirmed biblical morality. The book included references to homosexuality that angered the city’s LGBT community. The city’s mayor denied Cochran was let go because of his religious beliefs, but I believe the evidence seems to prove otherwise.

A Colorado baker was ordered by a judge either to serve gay couples or face fines. Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop, was told to “cease and desist from discriminating” against gay couples. Phillips is a Christian.

New Mexico’s Supreme Court ruled unanimously that two Christian photographers who declined to photograph a same-sex union violated the state’s Human Rights Act. One justice said photographers Elaine and Jonathan Huguenin were “compelled by law to compromise the very religious beliefs that inspire their lives.”

And the Washington attorney general filed a lawsuit against a florist who refused to provide flowers for a same-sex couple’s wedding. She told the Christian Broadcasting Network she “had to take a stand” in defense of her faith in Christ.

The evidence seems to indicate that Christian business owners are being intentionally singled out for persecution. And it appears the courts are consistently ruling that gay rights trump everyone else’s rights.

The Constitution guarantees every American a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Melissa Klein makes wedding cakes. That’s her pursuit of happiness. Should she be denied that right simply because of her Christian faith?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/02/03/christian-bakers-face-government-wrath-for-refusing-to-make-cake-for-gay/?intcmp=latestnews

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #344 on: February 03, 2015, 04:09:05 PM »
Stupid Fundies should have just baked the cake and made some money
I'm sure Jeebus wouldn't have held it against them when judging their immortal souls


LurkerNoMore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 30793
  • Dumb people think Trump is smart.
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #345 on: February 03, 2015, 06:05:25 PM »
Who was the GOP idiot that claimed gays shouldn't buy cakes from straights because they might be poisoned?   Real life smarts right there?  As if the majority of the country thinks like that?

LurkerNoMore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 30793
  • Dumb people think Trump is smart.
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #346 on: February 03, 2015, 06:07:09 PM »
Oh... it was dumb ass  Ben Carson.   Had to actually look it up as there are so many dumbasses in the GOP that this could be credited to.

chadstallion

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2854
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #347 on: February 04, 2015, 09:47:27 AM »
just bake a cake.
leave any statues/figures off and let the couple add it later.
if the baker doesn't want to add any wording, he doesn't have to. his job is to bake a cake.
w

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #348 on: February 04, 2015, 09:56:09 AM »
Agree with most of that but....the baker has to add the words or its a train wreck. Adding the figures is a good idea but the baker has the right to refuse service based on personnel beliefs. Why shove somebodies values/lifestyle down somebody else's throat. The baker was not proactively seeking to bar service to homosexuals. they came to him/them and the baker wasn't comfortable with providing the service. The homosexuals should have gone elsewhere...lit them up on social media review sites and been done with it. 
L

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63566
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Anti-LGBT Baker FORCED to bake cakes for Homosexual Weddings?
« Reply #349 on: February 04, 2015, 10:35:37 AM »
The writer makes a good point about "rehabilitation":

The question now is how much — if anything — the Kleins will be forced to pay. Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian will decide, and history proves he’s no friend of the Christian bakers.

In 2013, Avakian told The Oregonian that it is the government’s desire was to rehabilitate businesses like the one owned by the Kleins.

“Everybody is entitled to their own beliefs, but that doesn’t mean that folks have the right to discriminate,” he told the newspaper. “The goal is never to shut down a business. The goal is to rehabilitate.”

Rehabilitate? He wants to ship the Christians off to a government-sanctioned re-education camp?