explain the theory of incline pressing for upper chest from human kinetics POV

[anabolichalo]

the whole thing doesnt seem to make sense

[snx]

You're right. It kind of does, and it doesn't.

Here's how.

The incline press activates the upper pec fibers no more strongly than does a flat press. So why do bodybuilders do incline presses at all? Because unlike the flat press, which strongly activates the mid (sternocostal) and upper (clavicular) sections of the pec major, the incline press only strongly activates the upper section, whilst leaving the mid section relatively "unactivated", if you will (though it's impossible to only target one section of the pecs and not the other, since the pec fibers generally share the same insertion point).

So, for those bodybuilders who want to emphasize the upper section without fully engaging the mid section, there's incline presses.

But the more complete exercise to activate as much pec as possible is the flat press vs the incline press.

The same sort of "de-emphasis" principle, based on joint angle, is predominant in the body. For example, consider how bending the knee de-emphasizes gastroc recruitment in a calf raise, whereas fully extending the knee helps maximize gastroc recruitment during a calf raise. But it's impossible to prevent the soleus from being recruited at all in any calf raise (same goes for gastrocnemius).

[anabolichalo]

from that explanation one would conclude it bullshit to preach incline work to people with lagging upper chest

only perhaps if they replace the flat work for incline and let the rest of the chest atrophy untill upper catches up

which sounds like a pipe dream btw



what about incline flies, and why are they stronger than flats but for pressing it's the opposite?

[HockeyFightFan]

the whole thing doesnt seem to make sense

Isn't there one fucking Mod sick of this shit yet?

Fer fuck's sake.

[oldtimer1]

I'm really beginning to believe the whole incline press is for he upper chest is a myth. I rarely do decline presses but when I do my upper chest is sore as hell. I believe the the entire pec contracts when doing any kind of press whether incline, flat or decline. I heard one guy put forth a very thought provoking theory that declines are better for the top of the chest.

There is a lot of bs in bodybuilding. Whenever I see an athlete doing 4 types of bicep exercises I want to hit him in the head.  Are you trying to be a better athlete or look good in speedo? Another is why is everyone doing dumbbell presses for pecs and delts pronating the hands when it really puts a strain on the pec/delt tie in. The hands should face each other but since they never saw a bodybuilder do it that way they think it's nuts.

[Dago_Joe]

You are right it does not engage any different muscles than flat or decline does, but it does have value.  I do them because I fucked up my rotator cuff and flat presses KILL my shoulder.  Incline and decline do not hurt as much.  Other than that, no difference from a gains point of view.

[anabolichalo]

I'm really beginning to believe the whole incline press is for he upper chest is a myth. I rarely do decline presses but when I do my upper chest is sore as hell. I believe the the entire pec contracts when doing any kind of press whether incline, flat or decline. I heard one guy put forth a very thought provoking theory that declines are better for the top of the chest.

There is a lot of bs in bodybuilding. Whenever I see an athlete doing 4 types of bicep exercises I want to hit him in the head.  Are you trying to be a better athlete or look good in speedo? Another is why is everyone doing dumbbell presses for pecs and delts pronating the hands when it really puts a strain on the pec/delt tie in. The hands should face each other but since they never saw a bodybuilder do it that way they think it's nuts.

"hammer grip" dumbel preses... wouldnt that be more of a tricep exercise that pecs?

[LurkerNoMore]

Technically there is no upper area to the pac major.  A muscle will contract all at once, or not at all.  It doesn't contract in a specific spot or area.

One way to increase the illusion of upper chest mass is to target the pec minor.  This muscle is like the brachialis in that by making it bigger it will "lift" the muscle on top of it higher.  

[oldtimer1]

"hammer grip" dumbel preses... wouldnt that be more of a tricep exercise that pecs?

Don't you do chest flies with your hands facing each other? Of course you do. Now do your dumbbell presses like that. I bet you will feel a lot of soreness in your chest.

[snx]

from that explanation one would conclude it bullshit to preach incline work to people with lagging upper chest

only perhaps if they replace the flat work for incline and let the rest of the chest atrophy untill upper catches up

which sounds like a pipe dream btw



what about incline flies, and why are they stronger than flats but for pressing it's the opposite?

More or less.

Incline emphasis allows the sternal head of your chest to receive less activation than the clavicular head. Over time, de-emphasizing the  mid and lower sections whilst emphasizing the upper section would, theoretically, change the shape of your chest. And when I say "theoretically", I think we're talking matters of degrees here. It's not you're going to build a Ruhl-like upper chest if you started out looking like Johnny Jackson.

[NelsonMuntz]

isn't this for the training section troll?

[snx]

Technically there is no upper area to the pac major.  A muscle will contract all at once, or not at all.  It doesn't contract in a specific spot or area.

One way to increase the illusion of upper chest mass is to target the pec minor.  This muscle is like the brachialis in that by making it bigger it will "lift" the muscle on top of it higher.  

Yes there is an "upper area". There's a distinct clavicular head to the pec major, vs the sternocostal head.

Both share the same insertion, but originate at different points along the breastbone.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Technically there is no upper area to the pac major.  A muscle will contract all at once, or not at all.  It doesn't contract in a specific spot or area.

One way to increase the illusion of upper chest mass is to target the pec minor.  This muscle is like the brachialis in that by making it bigger it will "lift" the muscle on top of it higher.  

Exactly.

Called the "all-or-none principle."

[galeniko]

i can flex the upper part with the lower part kinda unflexed and vice versa.

but that doesnt mean the different angles target different parts.

the chest grows as a whole.

when one say how can i develop upper chest, they just forget or oblivious that it might take little bit gear, and they have chikan chest to begin with.
when it grows overall, the upper part will grow too.

just like you cant targhet single tricpes head or biceps peak,oh brother,biceps peak,lol

however incline bench is an excellent rotator cuff breaker, only followed close next by flat bench press.


the angle on how to properly hit the chest entirely depends on shoulder ,ribcage etc structure and how you tuck back the shoulders ,arm lenght etc.
everyone is different.

if one cant figure out for themselves what will work, they pretyy much fucked.

must feel out and be honest which exercises work best for you.

thats why i do all in random order

[ProudVirgin69]

Don't you do chest flies with your hands facing each other? Of course you do. Now do your dumbbell presses like that. I bet you will feel a lot of soreness in your chest.

The pectoralis, among other things, rotates the humerus internally.... Yeah you'll still stimulate your chest with neutral grip presses, but not as well as with pronated presses.
 

[Big Chiro Flex]

The pectoralis, among other things, rotates the humerus internally.... Yeah you'll still stimulate your chest with neutral grip presses, but not as well as with pronated presses.
 

Humeral rotation, excellent point

[snx]

The pectoralis, among other things, rotates the humerus internally.... Yeah you'll still stimulate your chest with neutral grip presses, but not as well as with pronated presses.
 

Interestingly enough though, EMG work shows that external rotation of the humerus (an "underhanded" grip) during a flat press more strongly activates the clavicular head of the pec major. Who'd-a-thunk-it?

[ProudVirgin69]

Humeral rotation, excellent point

*makes eye contact & shares knowing smile*

[galeniko]

Humeral rotation, excellent point

yah theres some machines which simulate this movement quite good.


important to understand how a muscle works before working it


but you and me we both can humeral all we want we born to have a shit chest

[Big Chiro Flex]

Interestingly enough though, EMG work shows that external rotation of the humerus (an "underhanded" grip) during a flat press more strongly activates the clavicular head of the pec major. Who'd-a-thunk-it?

Yeah shit like this makes me scratch my head and feel like we don't have a fucking clue about ANYTHING.

SNX do you work in a kinesiology/biomechanics related profession?

[Big Chiro Flex]

*makes eye contact & shares knowing smile*

[Skeletor]

I found that low pulley crossovers work good on the upper part of the chest (or the "clavicular head").

[a_ahmed]

You are right it does not engage any different muscles than flat or decline does, but it does have value.  I do them because I fucked up my rotator cuff and flat presses KILL my shoulder.  Incline and decline do not hurt as much.  Other than that, no difference from a gains point of view.

This +1

Me too.

[snx]

Yeah shit like this makes me scratch my head and feel like we don't have a fucking clue about ANYTHING.

SNX do you work in a kinesiology/biomechanics related profession?

If I had to theorize (and that's all I'm doing), I'd guess it's because the clavicular head inserts a little differently on the humerus versus the sternocostal head of the pec major. And when you externally rotate the humerus, you put that clavicular head in a position of stretch. And we know when you put a muscle in a position of stretch during a movement, you can preferentially recruit it (sort of like the way the outer head of the biceps is preferentially recruited when the shoulder is in extension, like in an incline DB curl).

But again, just theorizing.

And no, not smart enough to work in kin or chiropractic or physiotherapy. I did do quite a few courses in neurophysiology and human physiology (not enough to minor in...fell a few credits short), but that was a long time ago! Now I'm an armchair physiologist. Just enough left in the old noodle to make me a danger to myself!

[Hulkotron]

There are many secrets to discover here.