Author Topic: Men who are physically strong are more likely to have right wing political views  (Read 32965 times)

The True Adonis

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Examples?
Obamacare aka Romneycare aka Bob Dole Care and all the democratic support for it. (A truly right wing, Pro-Big Business joke of a healthcare system)


The fact that the Democrats bend over backwards and cater to Republicans and never stand for any liberal principles.  I can give specific examples.  Just pick any issue you like.

The Ugly

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Obamacare aka Romneycare aka Bob Dole Care and all the democratic support for it. (A truly right wing, Pro-Big Business joke of a healthcare system)


The fact that the Democrats bend over backwards and cater to Republicans and never stand for any liberal principles.  I can give specific examples.  Just pick any issue you like.

First time I've heard Obamacare referred to as a right wing idea. Even when Romney implemented it, it was considered rather socialistic.

How does the party feel about guns these days? In general.

The True Adonis

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First time I've heard Obamacare referred to as a right wing idea. Even when Romney implemented it, it was considered rather socialistic.

How does the party feel about guns these days? In general.
???

Obamacare is a Republican idea totally.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/dont-obamacare-it-was-republicans-idea-says-liberal-democrat

Don't Like Obamacare? It Was the Republicans' Idea, Says Liberal Democrat
October 28, 2013 - 9:12 AM
- See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/dont-obamacare-it-was-republicans-idea-says-liberal-democrat#sthash.HYsVuV8w.dpuf

The True Adonis

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-democrats-version-of-_b_4166664.html

The Democrats' Version of Health Insurance Would Have Been Cheaper, Simpler, and More Popular (So Why Did We Enact the Republican Version and Why Are They So Upset?)

The True Adonis

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House Majority Leader Eric Cantor says Republicans will seek to delay a requirement of the 2010 Affordable Care Act that all Americans obtain health insurance or face a tax penalty. "With so many unanswered questions and the problems arising around this rollout, it doesn't make any sense to impose this one percent mandate tax on the American people."

While Republicans plot new ways to sabotage the Affordable Care Act, it's easy to forget that for years they've been arguing that any comprehensive health insurance system be designed exactly like the one that officially began October 1st, glitches and all.

For as many years Democrats tried to graft healthcare onto Social Security and Medicare, and pay for it through the payroll tax. But Republicans countered that any system must be based on private insurance and paid for with a combination of subsidies for low-income purchasers and a requirement that the younger and healthier sign up.

Not surprisingly, private health insurers cheered on the Republicans while doing whatever they could to block Democrats from creating a public insurance system.

In February 1974, Republican President Richard Nixon proposed, in essence, today's Affordable Care Act. Under Nixon's plan all but the smallest employers would provide insurance to their workers or pay a penalty, an expanded Medicaid-type program would insure the poor, and subsidies would be provided to low-income individuals and small employers. Sound familiar?

Private insurers were delighted with the Nixon plan but Democrats preferred a system based on Social Security and Medicare, and the two sides failed to agree.

Thirty years later a Republican governor, Mitt Romney, made Nixon's plan the law in Massachusetts. Private insurers couldn't have been happier although many Democrats in the state had hoped for a public system.

When today's Republicans rage against the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act, it's useful to recall this was their idea as well.

In 1989, Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation came up with a plan that would "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."


Insurance companies loved Butler's plan so much it found its way into several bills introduced by Republican lawmakers in 1993. Among the supporters were senators Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and Charles Grassley, R-Iowa (who now oppose the mandate under the Affordable Care Act). Newt Gingrich, who became Speaker of the House in 1995, was also a big proponent.

Romney's heathcare plan in Massachusetts included the same mandate to purchase private insurance. "We got the idea of an individual mandate from [Newt Gingrich], and [Newt] got it from the Heritage Foundation," said Romney, who thought the mandate "essential for bringing the health care costs down for everyone and getting everyone the health insurance they need."

Now that the essential Republican plan for healthcare is being implemented nationally, health insurance companies are jubilant.

Last week, after the giant insurer Wellpoint raised its earnings estimates, CEO Joseph Swedish pointed to "the long-term membership growth opportunity through exchanges." Other major health plans are equally bullish. "The emergence of public exchanges, private exchanges, Medicaid expansions ... have the potential to create new opportunities for us to grow and serve in new ways," UnitedHealth Group CEO Stephen J. Hemsley effused.

So why are today's Republicans so upset with an Act they designed and their patrons adore? Because it's the signature achievement of the Obama administration.

There's a deep irony to all this. Had Democrats stuck to the original Democratic vision and built comprehensive health insurance on Social Security and Medicare, it would have been cheaper, simpler, and more widely accepted by the public. And Republicans would be hollering anyway.

ROBERT B. REICH, Chancellor's Professor of Public Policy at the University of California at Berkeley, was Secretary of Labor in the Clinton administration. Time Magazine named him one of the ten most effective cabinet secretaries of the last century. He has written thirteen books, including the best sellers "Aftershock" and "The Work of Nations." His film, "Inequality for All," will be out in September. He is also a founding editor of the American Prospect magazine and chairman of Common Cause. Watch the trailer for his new film, Inequality for All:

_aj_

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Uhh, TA. He asked about GUNS. Please, do let us all know about the Demcrat's rightwing stance on guns.

Coach is Back!

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please post something to support your claim

I can list many different well known people with strong work ethic, motivation/drive and competitiveness who are not conservative (fiscally or otherwise)

If this is just your gut feeling or your personal beliefbased on your gut feeling then that's a different story

Your "president" wouldn't be included in that list nor very few on the left.

The Ugly

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???

Obamacare is a Republican idea totally.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/dont-obamacare-it-was-republicans-idea-says-liberal-democrat

Don't Like Obamacare? It Was the Republicans' Idea, Says Liberal Democrat
October 28, 2013 - 9:12 AM
- See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/dont-obamacare-it-was-republicans-idea-says-liberal-democrat#sthash.HYsVuV8w.dpuf

Ok, so even if this is the case, how does it support your point that the right has moved further right? The ideology behind government healthcare certainly doesn't reflect true conservatism.

Coach is Back!

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OOPSY DOOPSY what is this?



Bill Ayers should be shot. The lefts thinking. Become a terrorist THEN get hired at a prestigious University as a professor.

DroppingPlates

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Bill Ayers should be shot. The lefts thinking. Become a terrorist THEN get hired at a prestigious University as a professor.

Seems like you have the mindset of a terrorist yourself...

The Ugly

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Your comment, TA, was that both parties were moving further right, but you've only provided examples of how the right has become more moderate.

The True Adonis

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Your comment, TA, was that both parties were moving further right, but you've only provided examples of how the right has become more moderate.
???

Did you not see the vote on Obamacare?

The Ugly

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???

Did you not see the vote on Obamacare?

I'm confused now. You seem to be arguing both sides. They invented it, but rejected it?

tu_holmes

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I'm confused now. You seem to be arguing both sides. They invented it, but rejected it?

This is true though.

The rejected it because the Democrats started agreeing with it... The only thing the parties can agree on is that whatever the other party promotes CAN NOT happen.

They are buffoons the lot of them.

The Ugly

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This is true though.

The rejected it because the Democrats started agreeing with it... The only thing the parties can agree on is that whatever the other party promotes CAN NOT happen.

They are buffoons the lot of them.

Ok, well if that was his point, then I understand. But still, who are these right-leaning Democrats who've redirected the party?

Voice of Doom

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A liberal is a power worshipper without the power - George Orwell

The left/right paradigm in the US is a smokescreen.  Both parties are Statist.  Both parties look to increase the size of the military and the size of the dependent citizenry.  This is the hallmark both of central planning authoritarianism and the decline of an empire.

Those of you who get hard at the color of the tie the faceless bureaucrat is wearing are the problem.

tu_holmes

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Ok, well if that was his point, then I understand. But still, who are these right-leaning Democrats who've redirected the party?

I think the point is that the democrats are getting people because the right has gone bat shit crazy.

Focusing on things that most people think should be done. Gay Marriage is over... Young people don't care if 2 gay people get married. Abortion is over... Young people think abortions during 1st trimester should be allowed.

Stuff like that.

Trust me... I voted for Obama in 2008 because the right wing is so busy saying that the baby jesus will fix it that I had to get off the crazy train.

Don't get me wrong... The dems aren't better. I voted libertarian in 2012 because I don't think raising taxes is the fix either.

I keep saying this... If you think the answer to the countries problems are raising taxes or the baby jesus, I have no use for you.

The True Adonis

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I'm confused now. You seem to be arguing both sides. They invented it, but rejected it?
Mind numbing, isn`t it?


Yes, Obamacare is originally the brain child of Republicans.  The Democrats, moving more to the right, picked up that plan, and lobbied support for it.  (no true liberal would ever push for such a plan)  They even kowtowed to the whining Republicans and included many provisions to appease them.  Then, not a single one of them voted for despite it being their plan originally, despite the provisions they demanded and got from the Democrats.  The vote was then taken and there were enough Democratic votes to pass it.

So, the Democrats effectively became way more right wing with this issue.  Lets review:

1. They lobbied for a plan that was pushed and crafted by Republicans.
2. They bent over backwards to give Republicans what they wanted in the plan.
3. The plan supports Big Business, which was a primary concern for Republicans.  They want the insurance companies to be fully in charge.
4. Not a single Republican voted for a plan they used to push for and a plan they invented.

Democrats are the new Republicans, Republicans belong in the nuthouse and only do things that are politically expedient for them.  They have no interest in helping the situation.  

The True Adonis

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I think the point is that the democrats are getting people because the right has gone bat shit crazy.

Focusing on things that most people think should be done. Gay Marriage is over... Young people don't care if 2 gay people get married. Abortion is over... Young people think abortions during 1st trimester should be allowed.

Stuff like that.

Trust me... I voted for Obama in 2008 because the right wing is so busy saying that the baby jesus will fix it that I had to get off the crazy train.

Don't get me wrong... The dems aren't better. I voted libertarian in 2012 because I don't think raising taxes is the fix either.

I keep saying this... If you think the answer to the countries problems are raising taxes or the baby jesus, I have no use for you.
This!


The True Adonis

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A liberal is a power worshipper without the power - George Orwell

The left/right paradigm in the US is a smokescreen.  Both parties are Statist.  Both parties look to increase the size of the military and the size of the dependent citizenry.  This is the hallmark both of central planning authoritarianism and the decline of an empire.

Those of you who get hard at the color of the tie the faceless bureaucrat is wearing are the problem.
George Orwell was a Socialist.  Hope this helps.  (doubt that it will)

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2010/03/01/196347/george-orwell-was-a-socialist/

"In my opinion, nothing has contributed so much to the corruption of the original idea of socialism as the belief that Russia is a socialist country and that every act of its rulers must be excused, if not imitated. And so for the last ten years, I have been convinced that the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the socialist movement. "- George Orwell

As a SOCIALIST, George Orwell considered that the first duty of a socialist is to fight totalitarianism, which means in practice “to denounce the Soviet myth, for there is not much difference between Fascism and Stalinism.

1984 was a Pro-Socialist anti Totalitarianism book.   I guess that fact escapes you as well.

The True Adonis

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In fact, Orwell thought Socialism to be the only antidote to defeating Hitler.

The True Adonis

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A liberal is a power worshipper without the power - George Orwell

The left/right paradigm in the US is a smokescreen.  Both parties are Statist.  Both parties look to increase the size of the military and the size of the dependent citizenry.  This is the hallmark both of central planning authoritarianism and the decline of an empire.

Those of you who get hard at the color of the tie the faceless bureaucrat is wearing are the problem.
Read Orwell`s essay entitled "WHY I WRITE".

In the essay he states his goal to rail against Soviet Totalitarianism and to promote Socialism and dispel the myth that Stalin`s Russia was Socialist.  This made his VERY angry that people were misrepresenting Socialism by calling Russia as such when it was not. THAT is why he wrote.

He was later to add, in "Why I Write" (1946), "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it."


According to biographer John guy,"the other crucial dimension to Orwell's socialism was his recognition that the Soviet Union was not socialist. Unlike many on the left, instead of abandoning socialism once he discovered the full horror of Stalinist rule in the Soviet Union, Orwell abandoned the Soviet Union and instead remained a socialist--indeed he became more committed to the socialist cause than ever."



The True Adonis

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A liberal is a power worshipper without the power - George Orwell

The left/right paradigm in the US is a smokescreen.  Both parties are Statist.  Both parties look to increase the size of the military and the size of the dependent citizenry.  This is the hallmark both of central planning authoritarianism and the decline of an empire.

Those of you who get hard at the color of the tie the faceless bureaucrat is wearing are the problem.
George Orwell`s real name was Eric Arthur Blair.
Did you not realize that he wrote under another name, "John Freeman", and penned "Can Socialists be Happy".

Here is some more info for you.


Blair then took a job teaching at the Hawthorne High School for Boys in Hayes, West London. This was a small school that provided private schooling for local tradesmen and shopkeepers and comprised only 20 boys and one other master.[17] While at the school he became friendly with the local curate and became involved with the local church. Mabel Fierz had pursued matters with Moore, and at the end of June 1932, Moore told Blair that Victor Gollancz was prepared to publish A Scullion's Diary for a £40 advance, for his recently founded publishing house, Victor Gollancz Ltd, which was an outlet for radical and socialist works.



Orwell set out for Spain on about 23 December, dining with Henry Miller in Paris on the way. A few days later at Barcelona, he met John McNair of the ILP Office who quoted him: "I've come to fight against Fascism".[23] Orwell stepped into a complex political situation in Catalonia. The Republican government was supported by a number of factions with conflicting aims, including the Workers' Party of Marxist Unification (POUM — Partido Obrero de Unificación Marxista), the anarcho-syndicalist CNT and the Unified Socialist Party of Catalonia (a wing of the Spanish Communist Party, which was backed by Soviet arms and aid). The Independent Labour Party was linked to the POUM and so Orwell joined the POUM.[/glow]

Orwell was declared "Unfit for any kind of military service" by the Medical Board in June, but soon afterwards found an opportunity to become involved in war activities by joining the Home Guard. He shared Tom Wintringham's socialist vision for the Home Guard as a revolutionary People's Militia.


In this work he states his idea of socialism as "a real Socialist is one who wishes - not merely conceives it as desirable, but actively wishes - to see tyranny overthrown". However it was the Spanish Civil War that played the most important part in defining his socialism. He wrote to Cyril Connolly from Barcelona on 8 June 1937: "I have seen wonderful things and at last really believe in Socialism, which I never did before".[64][65] Having witnessed the success of the anarcho-syndicalist communities, and the subsequent brutal suppression of the anarcho-syndicalists and other revolutionaries by the Soviet-backed Communists, Orwell returned from Catalonia a staunch anti-Stalinist and joined the Independent Labour Party, his card being issued on 13 June 1938.


Orwell wrote "For some years past I have managed to make the capitalist class pay me several pounds a week for writing books against capitalism. But I do not delude myself that this state of affairs is going to last forever",[67] going on to add "the only régime which, in the long run, will dare to permit freedom of speech is a Socialist régime. If Fascism triumphs I am finished as a writer - that is to say, finished in my only effective capacity. That of itself would be a sufficient reason for joining a Socialist party."



The True Adonis

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A liberal is a power worshipper without the power - George Orwell

The left/right paradigm in the US is a smokescreen.  Both parties are Statist.  Both parties look to increase the size of the military and the size of the dependent citizenry.  This is the hallmark both of central planning authoritarianism and the decline of an empire.

Those of you who get hard at the color of the tie the faceless bureaucrat is wearing are the problem.
Orwell joined the staff of Tribune as literary editor, and from then until his death was a left-wing (though hardly orthodox) Labour-supporting democratic socialist.

guy also considers that "the other crucial dimension to Orwell's socialism was his recognition that the Soviet Union was not socialist. Unlike many on the left, instead of abandoning socialism once he discovered the full horror of Stalinist rule in the Soviet Union, Orwell abandoned the Soviet Union and instead remained a socialist--indeed he became more committed to the socialist cause than ever."