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Author Topic: insulin while dieting  (Read 1205 times)
20inch calves
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« on: January 10, 2014, 02:22:18 PM »

Is it worth it? I have used it in the offseason but is it with using while getting ready for a show.  Does it truly help u to hold on to muscle?  Also how much do u guys run on a diet
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irongearco.com
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2014, 09:48:45 PM »

Is it worth it? I have used it in the offseason but is it with using while getting ready for a show.  Does it truly help u to hold on to muscle?  Also how much do u guys run on a diet

unless you're using it with growth (to conteract hyperglycemia), it's gonna be hard to diet with insulin.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2014, 10:07:53 PM »

How do you do it?
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Onetimehard
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2014, 02:48:39 AM »

How do you do it?
You can cluster all your daily carbs intake into a post work-out meal with a post work-out slin shot, That would be a conservative but safe alternative.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2014, 04:05:32 PM »

You can cluster all your daily carbs intake into a post work-out meal with a post work-out slin shot, That would be a conservative but safe alternative.

Ah nice. Yeah I just started a cut because I'm a fatso post bulk.
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galeniko
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2014, 09:01:35 PM »

Is it worth it? I have used it in the offseason but is it with using while getting ready for a show.  Does it truly help u to hold on to muscle?  Also how much do u guys run on a diet
also helps to hold on to the fat
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n
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2014, 02:45:52 PM »

also helps to hold on to the fat

lol so true. I don't like the slin look that much tbh.
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Chubz
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 04:59:15 PM »

Im dieting for a show and using log pre-workout, first time ever running slin. Its been 4 weeks and
i am leaning up nicely and filling out better than ever, working with a good coach.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2014, 07:14:20 PM »

Im dieting for a show and using log pre-workout, first time ever running slin. Its been 4 weeks and
i am leaning up nicely and filling out better than ever, working with a good coach.

Should take some pix and do a log of your routine and cycle. Would be useful for us less savvy and inexperienced with slin in this use.
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Chubz
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2014, 08:11:27 PM »

I take pics every week, I am always more than happy to share my cycles,diet,pics experiences. I am 18 weeks out, I will put things up in a few weeks

Chubz
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BodyMachine
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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2014, 10:57:45 PM »

Thank you! This will be very helpful
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galeniko
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2014, 04:38:29 AM »

with that username you shouldnt even think of insulin Grin
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n
oni
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2014, 09:10:47 PM »

I saw a good insulin protocol that might be useful.
It's called carb free post workout.

You go carb free the day you're training. If you're trying to get bigger then morning carbs are fine if you train PM.
Then post workout you take 1-2ui of the fast acting stuff. It's not carbohydrates that signal anabolism it's the insulin apparently. Then post workout you eat as much as possible really, or whatever. But no carbohydrates at all. The general consensus here is that eating fats is fine but if dieting hard then I'd probably limit fat intake until you're leaner.

What this does is glycogen gets depleted during training and then anabolism is signalled but glycogen stores not replenished. Then something happens which I don't understand but the net output is fat loss and muscle gain or minimal loss because the body is in full fat burning mode. The more fat loss you want, the less insulin you use and the later the day after you eat carbohydrates. The opposite for muscle gain with minimal fat
The morning after training you take some peptides or your GH, do some fasted cardio then carb back load for the following training session.

So if you train weekdays, you'd only eat carbs at the weekend. So it fits around many schedules. I don't think I'd try this personally. But I knew this was out there so found the info for you all.
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BigRo
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 02:34:51 AM »

Sounds dodgy, is it not proper to take some simple carbs post workout, how does one know they have stored up enough glycogen not to go hypo...
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oni
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 03:05:30 AM »

Sounds dodgy, is it not proper to take some simple carbs post workout, how does one know they have stored up enough glycogen not to go hypo...

I believe going hypo is dependant on a lot of things, not just blood glucose. Yeah I know, it's hypo "glycemia".
I don't think 1ui is enough to send you hypo either. 2ui might have you feeling a little dizzy if fasted but if you have plenty of protein in the system you should be fine

But I wouldn't do it, don't endorse it, just explaining it. The end result is you end up ultra insulin sensitive for 36h because the body is expecting carbohydrates but doesn't get it
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falco
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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2014, 03:25:49 AM »

People who already get hypoglicemic without insulin shoul think twice about usig it.

Insulin with no carbs = Coma.
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ProudVirgin69
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« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2014, 08:25:08 AM »

Sounds dodgy, is it not proper to take some simple carbs post workout, how does one know they have stored up enough glycogen not to go hypo...

1iu isn't much, and insulin-induced gluconeogenesis can cover it if need be.  Certainly not a way to achieve maximum muscle mass though
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dustin
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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2014, 09:05:34 AM »

People who already get hypoglicemic without insulin shoul think twice about usig it.

Insulin with no carbs = Coma.

Not entirely. I've done it multiple times but the timing is very hard. nosleep (I think) had a guide for the kamikaze insulin dieting thread. It's basically insulin pre-cardio, then go balls to the wall and stay in the twilight period just before going hypo. If you're used to insulin, you can teeter right on the edge of hypoglycemia and you sweat like crazy and burn tons of fat.

I've accidentally been there plenty of times before and it really peels you down. Now I'm reading a bunch of posts on dat's forum and really thinking that pre or post workout insulin could be a smart idea if you know what you're doing and can really nail down your diet.

I've been dieting for about a week now because my discipline went right out the window since my baby girl was born (November birth, then Christmas shortly after... really tough to diet). Not taking insulin but going low carb and not having many carbs post workout, just a little before bed or before a workout and lots of fasting. Really getting in shape with minimal anabolics. Accidentally dropped my stash and killed a dozen vials so need to pick up some new gears. I almost forgot how conditioned you can get with discipline alone...
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ProudVirgin69
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« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2014, 03:27:07 PM »

Not entirely. I've done it multiple times but the timing is very hard. nosleep (I think) had a guide for the kamikaze insulin dieting thread. It's basically insulin pre-cardio, then go balls to the wall and stay in the twilight period just before going hypo. If you're used to insulin, you can teeter right on the edge of hypoglycemia and you sweat like crazy and burn tons of fat.

I've accidentally been there plenty of times before and it really peels you down. Now I'm reading a bunch of posts on dat's forum and really thinking that pre or post workout insulin could be a smart idea if you know what you're doing and can really nail down your diet.

I've been dieting for about a week now because my discipline went right out the window since my baby girl was born (November birth, then Christmas shortly after... really tough to diet). Not taking insulin but going low carb and not having many carbs post workout, just a little before bed or before a workout and lots of fasting. Really getting in shape with minimal anabolics. Accidentally dropped my stash and killed a dozen vials so need to pick up some new gears. I almost forgot how conditioned you can get with discipline alone...

It was "no one", if you're referring to the guide he posted on gh15 forum.  It would be cool if he could repost it.

Dan Duchaine had an article, "Death Wish Dieting", which talked about taking insulin with nothing but a huge amount of protein, like 500-600g.  With excess protein like that, the body can more easily induce gluconeogenesis, and cover a larger amount of insulin without going hypo.
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galeniko
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« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2014, 04:38:01 PM »

It was "no one", if you're referring to the guide he posted on gh15 forum.  It would be cool if he could repost it.

Dan Duchaine had an article, "Death Wish Dieting", which talked about taking insulin with nothing but a huge amount of protein, like 500-600g.  With excess protein like that, the body can more easily induce gluconeogenesis, and cover a larger amount of insulin without going hypo.
wow, but this is scary dangerous advice, you can never know when glucogeneisis will happen.better to have some carbs if one wants take insulin
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n
dustin
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« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2014, 09:39:39 PM »

wow, but this is scary dangerous advice, you can never know when glucogeneisis will happen.better to have some carbs if one wants take insulin

Well that's the thing. So many people have fears and they usually let those fears lead the way. But we know enough about insulin now. And we know that there are other hormones and pathways that are used to shuttle glucose and other nutrients around our body. In the absence of glucose, it's well established and widely known that a process called gluconeogenesis occurs like you said. So why don't we explore that further in a clinical and meticulous fashion so we can now more, instead of being blinded by fears.

I've been reading a lot more about the carbless post workout approach thanks to ProudVirgin and I'm really, really intrigued. The insulin component comes from the fact that it's such an anabolic compound. And I think that it'd be REALLY beneficial for someone who's dieting, or someone who's using a limited amount of AAS or no AAS at all. If we could take a little bit of insulin during dieting and fill our muscle glycogen stores without consuming carbs, that sounds like it'd make for a lean and mean dieting monster. But monster doses aren't required. And anyone who's use insulin carefully knows the telltale signs of hypoglycemia and that just a few grams of dextrose is required to bring them out of the danger zone.

I guess that's where a lot of the fear comes from too... us bodybuilders need to play around in that danger zone because that's where all the fruits of our labor lie. There's no low laying fruit when it comes to insulin. You either use it and get fat, or you use it with growth hormone, copious amounts of anabolics and use it in a dosage that's just high enough to work synergistically with the GH and let it catapult your gains.

I've played around with it a lot, but never in a manner that got me any gains. I did learn a lot about my body's insulin flow and glucose metabolism. It goes way beyond simply "insulin is released in the presence of carbs and sometimes other macros to shuttle nutrients around". I think I'm going to keep dieting really hard so I can play around with insulin a lot more. I'm a low AAS kind of guy and I'm probably going to use insulin when I get to the mid, single-digit range again. I've pretty much sworn off any sort of fat burner and hate thyroid meds too much, so there's not much to play with once I'm peeled and veiny like a cock.
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ProudVirgin69
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« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2014, 10:35:49 PM »

wow, but this is scary dangerous advice, you can never know when glucogeneisis will happen.better to have some carbs if one wants take insulin

Certainly not advice lol  Cheesy Just some food for thought

Dustin, what type of insulin is most common for the CPWO? Humalog, no?
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