First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???

[millineum man]

Sorry to bother you, but I'd like to get some opinions from some knowledgeable guys. I've been planning my First Cycle for a while now. I want to keep it as simple as possible. The standard cycle  recommendation is 500mgs of Test E or C for 12-16 weeks. My goal is to use the absolute minimum to grow, increase my strength on all the core lifts, and keep the water retention low. Stats: 39 years old(40 in two months), 6'3" 235lbs, 8-9% bf with a 31-32 inch waist. I seen some posts by Galeniko and Proud Virgin69 and had this in mind. Maybe start out with 250mgs of Test a week for a year and see where it takes me. Or 500mgs of Test a week for 6-8 months, then back down to 250mgs for 8-12 weeks and back to 500mgs. My diet(5-6 protein based meals a day) and training are on point. Aesthically speaking, I hate to use numbers, but my long term plan is to hit 250lbs while heeping my bodyfat the same. I don't compete so you can lump me in the "gymrat" catergory. LOL! Let me get some honest input. Thanks in advance, guys!

[ProudVirgin69]

Sorry to bother you, but I'd like to get some opinions from some knowledgeable guys. I've been planning my First Cycle for a while now. I want to keep it as simple as possible. The standard cycle  recommendation is 500mgs of Test E or C for 12-16 weeks. My goal is to use the absolute minimum to grow, increase my strength on all the core lifts, and keep the water retention low. Stats: 39 years old(40 in two months), 6'3" 235lbs, 8-9% bf with a 31-32 inch waist. I seen some posts by Galeniko and Proud Virgin69 and had this in mind. Maybe start out with 250mgs of Test a week for a year and see where it takes me. Or 500mgs of Test a week for 6-8 months, then back down to 250mgs for 8-12 weeks and back to 500mgs. My diet(5-6 protein based meals a day) and training are on point. Aesthically speaking, I hate to use numbers, but my long term plan is to hit 250lbs while heeping my bodyfat the same. I don't compete so you can lump me in the "gymrat" catergory. LOL! Let me get some honest input. Thanks in advance, guys!

This plan is airtight and pretty much foolproof....you've got the right mindset, evidenced by the bolded text.

As far as how much you want to start off with, I think 250mg/week would feel like a big leap from your natty status but you couldn't really go wrong with 500mg either.  Are you patient?  If yes, 250mg....if not, 500mg.  Either one is good.

Above all, you're in for a great experience.  If you think you're having fun training now, you aint seen nothing yet 

Posting a picture would definitely help us get an idea of where you're at

[Chubz]

have you had your natural levels tested? your at that age where they get low, when I first hit the weights at 36 my levels were in the toilet and I grew, just saying maybe get them checked and you can get it prescribed. I personally would do 600mg test first cycle.

[tstmaniac]

Sorry to bother you, but I'd like to get some opinions from some knowledgeable guys. I've been planning my First Cycle for a while now. I want to keep it as simple as possible. The standard cycle  recommendation is 500mgs of Test E or C for 12-16 weeks. My goal is to use the absolute minimum to grow, increase my strength on all the core lifts, and keep the water retention low. Stats: 39 years old(40 in two months), 6'3" 235lbs, 8-9% bf with a 31-32 inch waist. I seen some posts by Galeniko and Proud Virgin69 and had this in mind. Maybe start out with 250mgs of Test a week for a year and see where it takes me. Or 500mgs of Test a week for 6-8 months, then back down to 250mgs for 8-12 weeks and back to 500mgs. My diet(5-6 protein based meals a day) and training are on point. Aesthically speaking, I hate to use numbers, but my long term plan is to hit 250lbs while heeping my bodyfat the same. I don't compete so you can lump me in the "gymrat" catergory. LOL! Let me get some honest input. Thanks in advance, guys!

I would say go with 500mgs for 12 to 16 weeks like you said just to try it out.if you feel the need to stay on then you can cruise with 250mg after that...I have been juicing for about 8 years and out of all the crazy cycles iv done.. 500mgs of legit pharma test is my favorite..very mild cycle with great gains if you diet real strict and train like an animal...also get blood work during and after cycle is always good..

[millineum man]

This plan is airtight and pretty much foolproof....you've got the right mindset, evidenced by the bolded text.

As far as how much you want to start off with, I think 250mg/week would feel like a big leap from your natty status but you couldn't really go wrong with 500mg either.  Are you patient?  If yes, 250mg....if not, 500mg.  Either one is good.

Above all, you're in for a great experience.  If you think you're having fun training now, you aint seen nothing yet 

Posting a picture would definitely help us get an idea of where you're at

I'm not sure if I'm all that patient. I'm leaning towards going with 500mgs/week for at least 6 months, maybe a little longer. My main concern is staying on the dry side while growing. I have seen the bloated look on a few guys and I'm definitely not a fan.

[millineum man]

Would using Test Prop help at all?

[oni]

test is test

[_aj_]

I am 48 and I am about to hop on "enhanced" self administered TRT. If I wasn't patient, I would have quit the iron game 20 years ago.

Wanna do it with minimal sides, bloat or obvious AAS use (50 pounds in 10 weeks).

Going with 250/week test e.

[ProudVirgin69]

I'm not sure if I'm all that patient. I'm leaning towards going with 500mgs/week for at least 6 months, maybe a little longer. My main concern is staying on the dry side while growing. I have seen the bloated look on a few guys and I'm definitely not a fan.

Bloat is determined to a big extent by genetics, but there's some things you can do to keep it under control...mostly estrogen and water-based

-the right dose of test.  250test might give you good e2 values, but 300 might take you way out of range.  Estrogen does not increase linearly with dosage. This takes some experimentation
-clean diet, low carb/sodium.  Test makes you way more sensitive to junk food.  Takes me like 2 days to recover from a big cheat meal.
-avoiding dairy/gluten if you're sensitive.  Food allergies/intolerances will make you hold water a bit
-staying as lean as you can.  The more fat you have, the more estrogen you'll produce
-frequent injections.  Big doses infrequently will lead to hormone fluctuations and more estrogen conversion
-taking an anti-estrogen.  Last resort imo, you wanna use as few drugs as possible.  Maybe just use it for a couple months in summer to look real good

Dosage n clean diet are the biggest factors in my book, but you'll need to find what works best for you

I am 48 and I am about to hop on "enhanced" self administered TRT. If I wasn't patient, I would have quit the iron game 20 years ago.

Wanna do it with minimal sides, bloat or obvious AAS use (50 pounds in 10 weeks).

Going with 250/week test e.

Perfect.  Low dose n strict diet will make you look great

[_aj_]

My diet is on-point right now. I probably will have to be more diligent with logging my food and also watching the sodium. I have a once a week cheat meal with my son.

The rest is high protein (200+ grams), low/medium high-quality carbs and good fats. I am all about tweaking it tho.

Not a big fan of needles, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

[ProudVirgin69]

My diet is on-point right now. I probably will have to be more diligent with logging my food and also watching the sodium. I have a once a week cheat meal with my son.

The rest is high protein (200+ grams), low/medium high-quality carbs and good fats. I am all about tweaking it tho.

Not a big fan of needles, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Sounds good.  When i say "strict"  I just mean that you'll be way more sensitive to bloat on juice.  A pizza dinner will fuck you up, water-wise.  Moonface and all that.  The only advantage toOne of the advantages to being natural is that you don't have to worry about water/bloat much

Everybody is different though, this may not be an issue for you.  Just takes a bit of experimentation

[millineum man]

I am 48 and I am about to hop on "enhanced" self administered TRT. If I wasn't patient, I would have quit the iron game 20 years ago.

Wanna do it with minimal sides, bloat or obvious AAS use (50 pounds in 10 weeks).

Going with 250/week test e.

We're after the same thing, basically. The main reason I'm going to start out with 500mgs is I'm going to be shutdown either way, whether it's 250 or 500. I've seen studies with guys using 600mgs of test a week and had great results in muscle growth. I believe I can control the bloat with my diet and cardio(30mins 5 x's a week), which is important to me.

[millineum man]

Bloat is determined to a big extent by genetics, but there's some things you can do to keep it under control...mostly estrogen and water-based

-the right dose of test.  250test might give you good e2 values, but 300 might take you way out of range.  Estrogen does not increase linearly with dosage. This takes some experimentation
-clean diet, low carb/sodium.  Test makes you way more sensitive to junk food.  Takes me like 2 days to recover from a big cheat meal.
-avoiding dairy/gluten if you're sensitive.  Food allergies/intolerances will make you hold water a bit
-staying as lean as you can.  The more fat you have, the more estrogen you'll produce
-frequent injections.  Big doses infrequently will lead to hormone fluctuations and more estrogen conversion
-taking an anti-estrogen.  Last resort imo, you wanna use as few drugs as possible.  Maybe just use it for a couple months in summer to look real good

Dosage n clean diet are the biggest factors in my book, but you'll need to find what works best for you

Perfect.  Low dose n strict diet will make you look great

Yeah, I've heard from guys who said they the majority of test sides down by injecting smaller, more frequent amounts throughout the week using slin pins. I'm in this thing for the long haul and do not want to go over board.

[millineum man]

I also have access to 100mgs test phenylpropionate/100mgs npp combo that's supposed to be kick ass. Not sure if I want to mess with it right now or save it for down the road.

[_aj_]

I also have access to 100mgs test phenylpropionate/100mgs npp combo that's supposed to be kick ass. Not sure if I want to mess with it right now or save it for down the road.

Why not start with just the test, and see how that is before you start mixing?

[_aj_]

Yeah, I've heard from guys who said they the majority of test sides down by injecting smaller, more frequent amounts throughout the week using slin pins. I'm in this thing for the long haul and do not want to go over board.

Keeping in mind that I don't know fuck-all, that's not been the advice that I have been given. Sides are a function of the amount and your genetic disposition against sides.

My goal is to boost my test to just a tad supra-physiological and keep my training and diet where it currently is. I don't want my hair to fall out, my prostate to enlarge, my tits to grow, my face to become a moon, my current, hard-earned muscles (such as they are) to bloof, or...you get the idea.

That said, if I go 4-6 months on 250 and feel that there is some head-space there, I would consider kicking it up. Probably 375 and then 500. But really, I am not sure that I need or want to.

And patience, my younger brother. I am 10 years older than you. I would probably give a nut to have those 10 years back chronologically (the last 10 were great years for me personally and professionally, tho), but the iron game is a game of inches, not yards. Don't be so impatient that you get yourself in health trouble. These ain't multivitamins that we are fucking around with here. Be smart, be patient.

[ProudVirgin69]

No, what he's saying about injecting everyday is true.  But it's somewhat of a hassle.

The only benefit of once/weekly injections is convenience

[millineum man]

No, what he's saying about injecting everyday is true.  But it's somewhat of a hassle.

The only benefit of once/weekly injections is convenience

What do you about 1/4ml(62.5mgs) 5 times (Mon-Fri) or 1/2ml(125mgs) injections of Test E or C 3 times a week with a slin pin? Most guys say they're virtually painless and not much of a hassle. They eliminate the water bloat and bloofy look without having to use Arimidex, Aromasin, etc... to stay dry.

[Christo]

Keeping in mind that I don't know fuck-all, that's not been the advice that I have been given. Sides are a function of the amount and your genetic disposition against sides.

My goal is to boost my test to just a tad supra-physiological and keep my training and diet where it currently is. I don't want my hair to fall out, my prostate to enlarge, my tits to grow, my face to become a moon, my current, hard-earned muscles (such as they are) to bloof, or...you get the idea.

That said, if I go 4-6 months on 250 and feel that there is some head-space there, I would consider kicking it up. Probably 375 and then 500. But really, I am not sure that I need or want to.

And patience, my younger brother. I am 10 years older than you. I would probably give a nut to have those 10 years back chronologically (the last 10 were great years for me personally and professionally, tho), but the iron game is a game of inches, not yards. Don't be so impatient that you get yourself in health trouble. These ain't multivitamins that we are fucking around with here. Be smart, be patient.

Maybe Test 250+ Primo 200 mg per week should be a solution?
Primo is an anti oestrogeen (dht derivate) and will lower oestrogen conversion from the test.
Besides that primo is also anabolic

[millineum man]

Maybe Test 250+ Pri.  200 mg per week should be a solution?
Primo is an anti oestrogeen (dht derivate) and will lower oestrogen conversion from the test.
Besides that primo is also anabolic

It's hard to find REAL, affordable primo now a days. Masteron enanthate would be a cheaper option.

[ESFitness]

Maybe Test 250+ Primo 200 mg per week should be a solution?
Primo is an anti oestrogeen (dht derivate) and will lower oestrogen conversion from the test.
Besides that primo is also anabolic

can you explain why you say primo is an anti-estrogen?

I've never understood the theory behind this....

perhaps it came from dan duchaine in the mid 90's when he said Proviron was an anti-estrogen, then changes his stance.

people compared proviron to masteron.

now masteron became an anti-estrogen.

now because primo is a dht-drtv, it also is an anti-estrogen.

so, in that logic, is anadrol now an anti-estrogen as well? winstrol? anavar? halotestin? (and whatever else I'm forgetting)

is dht an aromatase-inhibitor? does it occupy the estrogen receptor? how exactly is it an 'anti-estrogen'?

people should really, really refrain from giving out advice about subjects they really, really know nothing about.

[galeniko]

Primo is an anti oestrogeen (dht derivate) and will lower oestrogen conversion from the test.

no and no.

primo is also a good way to lose ones hair.

can you explain why you say primo is an anti-estrogen?

I've never understood the theory behind this....

perhaps it came from dan duchaine in the mid 90's when he said Proviron was an anti-estrogen, then changes his stance.

people compared proviron to masteron.

now masteron became an anti-estrogen.

now because primo is a dht-drtv, it also is an anti-estrogen.

so, in that logic, is anadrol now an anti-estrogen as well? winstrol? anavar? halotestin? (and whatever else I'm forgetting)

is dht an aromatase-inhibitor? does it occupy the estrogen receptor? how exactly is it an 'anti-estrogen'?

people should really, really refrain from giving out advice about subjects they really, really know nothing about.

i think youre just "asking" rhetoricaly,you know the answers.

but ill put it out here anyway:

dht compounds are not anti estrogens at all.they are simply steroids and thats that.

they dont stop estrogen conversion from other compounds at all.

even if one runs dht derivates only, the will still be estrogen in the body,anyone who knows how estrogen is created will know that.

a friend has just has blood work done and runs a dht compound only cycle.est is low but not "gone".

hope this helps,but you knew this already

[ESFitness]

no and no.

primo is also a good way to lose ones hair.

and money. lol.

in the us, primo costs 15x what deca cost to produce...

so unless you're paying 15x (maybe the supplier is being nice and cutting his margin down, in which case we'll say 8-10x) what you're paying for deca it's most likely not primo. (and most likely masteron, which is about 2.5x what deca costs to produce).

only 'option' is to find HG ampules, and even those are expensive as hell.... even the 50mg ones in mexico (if they're still in mexico).

[galeniko]

and money. lol.

in the us, primo costs 15x what deca cost to produce...

so unless you're paying 15x (maybe the supplier is being nice and cutting his margin down, in which case we'll say 8-10x) what you're paying for deca it's most likely not primo. (and most likely masteron, which is about 2.5x what deca costs to produce).

only 'option' is to find HG ampules, and even those are expensive as hell.... even the 50mg ones in mexico (if they're still in mexico).

yah, i dont know if the schering ampoulas(100mg) are still made, it always was very expensive and overhyped, simply bc arnie supposedly took this.

to get an effective dosage will be very expensive,fully agree.

if it has mast in it instead the ppl should be lucky, its much better bang for the buck

[Skorp1o]

6'3" 235lbs, 8-9% bf with a 31-32 inch waist.

With those stats you don't need to take anything