A question for the volume style lifters

[Justicio]

I noticed a lot on here work with 25 sets+ on a single body part.
What I don't understand is how you have the endurance to do that + other parts like arms etc
Every set I do is to failure or 1 rep off and I can't imagine doing 25 sets of that. Do you guys just do a set number of reps 25 times?

Natural btw

[Roger Bacon]

Now you listen here boy, you need to turn the Super Bowl on and shut the fuck up.

We'll discuss your tiny-tit training methods later.

[SF1900]

Why are you doing every set to failure? So the first set, you jump on the bar, put as much weight as you can for a certain amount of reps, then just go to ultimate failure? Sounds stupid.

[Hulkotron]

Now you listen here boy, you need to turn the Super Bowl on and shut the fuck up.

We'll discuss your tiny-tit training methods later.

 

[_aj_]

 

You are not allowed to claim natty until you've posted a pic of your obviously steroid enhanced upper body. It's in the rule book.

[galeniko]

I noticed a lot on here work with 25 sets+ on a single body part.
What I don't understand is how you have the endurance to do that + other parts like arms etc
Every set I do is to failure or 1 rep off and I can't imagine doing 25 sets of that. Do you guys just do a set number of reps 25 times?

Natural btw

what is this?

are you recovering from 12month in a coma or something?

25sets  is fuck all endurance, my goodness how fat are you, 25 sets of lifting weight is easier than 45 minutes jogging as far endurance is concerned.

i do even more, to what feels like almost failure.

natural, yes

[Hulkotron]

Kyomu is the local expert on taking it to the failure hopefully he will see this thread

[pellius]

Whatever training method you subscribe to it can't be denied that intensity and duration are inversely proportional. It's like the difference between sprinting and jogging. You can train very hard or very long but not both.  If you take every set to true failure, using various intensity variables: force reps, negatives, partials... then it would be pretty tough, it not impossible, to maintain that for 25 sets per body part.

Again what's the optimal training protocol is a separate issue.

[dustin]

Kyomu is the local expert on taking it to the failure hopefully he will see this thread

He's busy oiling up Paco somewhere sweaty and tropical.

[cephissus]

you can do a thousand sets if you like, depending on how you adjust all the other factors

also "to failure" is a retarded term and should be banned from the bodybuilding lexicon

[benchmstr]

I usually workout twice a day

Timed workouts and circuits mixed with cardio in the morning

Heavy work in the evening/night

Both are done with really high volume usually....it's never been an issue...as long as you haven't let your CNS be lazy you can always push through

Bench

[temple_of_dis]

Now you listen here boy, you need to turn the Super Bowl on and shut the fuck up.

We'll discuss your tiny-tit training methods later.

 

[pellius]

you can do a thousand sets if you like, depending on how you adjust all the other factors

also "to failure" is a retarded term and should be banned from the bodybuilding lexicon

How would you like to term a set that is taken to the point where the muscle can no longer perform a given task due to complete and utter exhaustion?

[galeniko]

How would you like to term a set that is taken to the point where the muscle can no longer perform a given task due to complete and utter exhaustion?

nah ehs right.

put a gun to ones head and he will squeeze out some extra reps, whereas hed swear he was at failure wo the gun at head and few reps less.

also, positive or negative part of rom etc.

these naturals crack me up anyway with those retarded questions.

[galeniko]

pellius, would you agree that nobody does squats to failure?

except jean pierre fux one time he realy went all the way to failure.

my goodness, ppl should jst use a weight they can do proper 10 reps or so and then carry on until brutal pump happens.

that it.

volume is built over time, just like strenght is built over time.

[pellius]

pellius, would you agree that nobody does squats to failure?

except jean pierre fux one time he realy went all the way to failure.

my goodness, ppl should jst use a weight they can do proper 10 reps or so and then carry on until brutal pump happens.

that it.

volume is built over time, just like strenght is built over time.

No, not nobody. You obviously have to have spotters.

But again, I am not commenting on what is the optimal training method. I just want to clarify the relationship between intensity and duration. That article I posted by Tom Platz indicated that because of the ferocious intensity that he used when performing squats he only did two work sets and only squatted twice a month. 

I do want to point out a claim that Arthur Jones made many years ago that I thought made a lot of sense. He said that as long as you are working within your functional ability, i.e., doing things that are already easy, then exercise will do little or nothing to stimulate an adaptive response. For example, say you can do 8 pullups. As long as you continue to do just 8, never striving for the 9th, then you give your body little or no reason to do what it doesn't want to do anyway -- build more muscle. I mean, isn't the whole point of using weights, using resistance, is to subject your muscle to a load it is not accustom to. 

As far as a pump. I do believe that it does play a role in muscle hypertrophy. But it is an insufficient one. By that I mean that a pump in and of itself will not stimulate muscle hypertrophy. I mean, I can get a pretty good bicep pump or chest pump just by squeezing my muscles very hard over and over again. Conversely, many power lifters and Olympic lifters develop a lot of muscle mass without achieving a pump in their training. 

This is similar to say an elevated heart rate. If you are training very intensely or course your heart rate will go up. But an elevated heart rate in an of itself is not the sole indicator of  anaerobic or aerobic training. Hell, I get an elevated heart rate just driving in traffic or reading a post by Shitsoul. No one will argue that I can get in cardiovascular shape driving in traffic or reading Shitsoul.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Now you listen here boy, you need to turn the Super Bowl on and shut the fuck up.

We'll discuss your tiny-tit training methods later.

Powerful

[benchmstr]

pellius, would you agree that nobody does squats to failure?

except jean pierre fux one time he realy went all the way to failure.

my goodness, ppl should jst use a weight they can do proper 10 reps or so and then carry on until brutal pump happens.

that it.

volume is built over time, just like strenght is built over time.

I do squats to failure once every 1-2 weeks..but it's a 3 stage system I do since I usually workout alone and don't have spotters

I'll start out squating anywhere from 275lb-315lb for as many as possible
Then immediately drop the bar and put on my 100lb vest and grab a 75lb db and do goblet squats until I can't move the weight anymore
Then I'll drop the dumbell and just air squat with the vest until I can't move the weight
Then I drop the vest and go for bodyweight squats until I fall over, cramp up, or have to drop a deuce

Bench

[pellius]

I do squats to failure once every 1-2 weeks..but it's a 3 stage system I do since I usually workout alone and don't have spotters

I'll start out squating anywhere from 275lb-315lb for as many as possible
Then immediately drop the bar and put on my 100lb vest and grab a 75lb db and do goblet squats until I can't move the weight anymore
Then I'll drop the dumbell and just air squat with the vest until I can't move the weight
Then I drop the vest and go for bodyweight squats until I fall over, cramp up, or have to drop a deuce

Bench

Man has it been a long time since I've come across one of your posts here. I remember when you defected (lol) to AB. (uuummm bacon). How long have you been back?

[benchmstr]

Man has it been a long time since I've come across one of your posts here. I remember when you defected (lol) to AB. (uuummm bacon). How long have you been back?

Couple of months maybe...

Bench

[pellius]

Couple of months maybe...

Bench

I've been back maybe a month or so. Miss the free wheeling give and take.

[kyomu]

Kyomu is the local expert on taking it to the failure hopefully he will see this thread

Coincidentaly i am reading this thread.

OK.
Of course the intensity is related to the volume of the set.
But, since training with Paco Bautista,I have noticed that we set our limit without notice in the volume of set and exercise.
Like Mike Mentzer said that its ideal that we finish in one set per exercise with maximum intensity.
But its just impossible to concentrate or elevate your intensity until that level.
So, we always end up with a couple of sets more even if we accomplish the intensity which Mentzer dwelled on.

And also the adding pump up sets or exercises apart. That also contribute a lot to your muscle growth needles to say.
Some people can say that it lead us to over training mode. But if you want to know yourlimit, you must reach overtraining state once.
In this manner, you will know your training limit and you are going to be surprised at your limit which is far from your imagination.

[kyomu]

He's busy oiling up Paco somewhere sweaty and tropical.

Maybe he is busy doing it to me.

[Thteven]

 Train twice a day?
 
 25 sets per body part?

 I don't know how juicers should train or what they can get away with in regard to training(like they need to do all that much anyway , but if a true natural followed this 'advice' he would be making zero progress. In my experience as a drug-free lifter, the only thing that works is heavy, to failure every set(that means the last rep is you LAST rep; it's physically impossible to go another rep) with large intervals between training sessions(example: leg day is once or MAYBE twice a week). Duration time should be less than 2 hours a week in total(30 minute workouts should be enough). That means NO 2 hour long workouts so you can complete you '25 set' macho gym rat workout.

 I don't know about you guys, but I would not be taking training advice from people who don't look very good even on steroids, let alone if they got off all of their drugs(Oh brother, I have seen that first hand lol).


 Then again I train for results(and health), not to 'impress' the 6 people who wandered in the gym that day
 

 

[pellius]

Train twice a day?
 
 25 sets per body part?

 I don't know how juicers should train or what they can get away with in regard to training(like they need to do all that much anyway , but if a true natural followed this 'advice' he would be making zero progress. In my experience as a drug-free lifter, the only thing that works is heavy, to failure every set(that means the last rep is you LAST rep; it's physically impossible to go another rep) with large intervals between training sessions(example: leg day is once or MAYBE twice a week). Duration time should be less than 2 hours a week in total(30 minute workouts should be enough). That means NO 2 hour long workouts so you can complete you '25 set' macho gym rat workout.

 I don't know about you guys, but I would not be taking training advice from people who don't look very good even on steroids, let alone if they got off all of their drugs(Oh brother, I have seen that first hand lol).


 Then again I train for results(and health), not to 'impress' the 6 people who wandered in the gym that day
 

You make some good points. Can you post a recent pic for us so we can be assure you're safe to take training advice from.