Author Topic: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why  (Read 7711 times)

NYCDVR

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Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« on: January 12, 2006, 04:15:53 PM »
Ok after the talk about size and strength debate that goes on and on, on every board I think I have a new question

Why does strength in a trained athlete change dramatically(one week) after starting a strong anabolic(halo,tren etc)

There is no change in size after 7 days there is no increased water retention(note compounds mentioned) yet strenght increases dramatically

Why?

DIVISION

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2006, 06:16:58 PM »
Ok after the talk about size and strength debate that goes on and on, on every board I think I have a new question

Why does strength in a trained athlete change dramatically(one week) after starting a strong anabolic(halo,tren etc)

There is no change in size after 7 days there is no increased water retention(note compounds mentioned) yet strenght increases dramatically

Why?

I don't have any studies, mainly because I don't think there are any dealing with strength buildup in athletes ingesting Halotestin, Trenbolone, Methyltestosterone, Cheque drops.

My thinking is that the more androgenic a substance is, the more it stimulates the strength recruitment muscle fibers through a yet undefined mechanism in the CNS, whereas the more anabolic substances have more to do with tissue buildup without the direct impanct on the strength quotient.

I have experienced this firsthand.  Halotestin is the #1 androgen for strength, mainly because it is purely an androgen and doesn't aromatize at all.  Nothing else feels like fresh Halo before a workout.

Halo = Gorilla
Tren = Bull
Deca = Horse
Winstrol = Pony




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mem

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2006, 07:51:12 PM »

Nothing else feels like fresh Halo before a workout.

Halo = Gorilla
Tren = Bull
Deca = Horse
Winstrol = Pony




DIV

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gammahydroxy

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2006, 07:51:48 PM »
equipoise=horse
Deca=?
musclegurus.com

mem

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2006, 08:08:03 PM »
1 life 1 liver

DIVISION

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2006, 09:14:56 PM »
equipoise=horse
Deca=?

Deca is stronger than EQ.

EQ is one of the most overrated anabolics out today, along with Anavar and Primo.




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Beyond Genetics

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2006, 04:39:01 AM »
Deca is stronger than EQ.

EQ is one of the most overrated anabolics out today, along with Anavar and Primo.




DIV

Deca is a lot better, I went through a 50cc bottle of EQ and it was O.K. but not what Deca would have done.

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2006, 06:24:07 AM »
What dramtic strength diffrence in one week?
You see more body weight changes from water retantion/more glycon and such then a strength increase.



Exal

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2006, 09:55:48 AM »
well strenght has ALOT to do with you CNS, so it might be that the compounds stimulate your CNS in some way...

DIVISION

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2006, 01:29:10 PM »
well strenght has ALOT to do with you CNS, so it might be that the compounds stimulate your CNS in some way...

I already mentioned that.........and yes it's true.

CNS is what raw strength is all about.





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NYCDVR

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2006, 04:02:36 PM »
well no water retentioned with mentioned hormones

I really like the CNS idea thats good I think its on the right track

Anybody have any studies on CNS and juice going to check myself but just in case

dramatic well same weight as prior weak and an extra 3-4 reps per set maybe steroids prevent lactic acid in some way?

Anyway week 2 is almost up but by now other factors come into play(creatine levels and adp possibly)


DIVISION

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2006, 09:09:19 PM »
dramatic well same weight as prior weak and an extra 3-4 reps per set maybe steroids prevent lactic acid in some way?

AAS keep the body in positive nitrogen balance and keep the body in a constant anabolic state, thereby allowing growth.

They don't prevent lactic acid, but they decrease the time it takes to recover from muscle breakdown.




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Arnold jr

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2006, 09:18:50 PM »
but they decrease the time it takes to recover from muscle breakdown.




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kicker

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2006, 09:57:17 PM »
AAS keep the body in positive nitrogen balance and keep the body in a constant anabolic state, thereby allowing growth.

They don't prevent lactic acid, but they decrease the time it takes to recover from muscle breakdown.




DIV

Isn't adequate protein intake the key for positive nitrogen balance?  You can take all the AAS, but the body still needs the building blocks to facilitate the drugs' effects.


kicker

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2006, 10:12:36 PM »
The rapid strength increase may also be attributed to drugs that stimulate creatine storage, like anavar and dianabol. 

Some other AAS's (i.e. test. suspension, Anadrol) also associated with glycogen-synthetase enzyme stimulation, hence the rapid increase in strength.

The idea that AAS's stimulates the CNS is interesting.  How does this happen?

DIVISION

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2006, 11:00:12 PM »
Isn't adequate protein intake the key for positive nitrogen balance?  You can take all the AAS, but the body still needs the building blocks to facilitate the drugs' effects.

Of course protein is necessary for that, however AAS facilitate the whole process.  I was assuming the person was eating the way they should.  That's common sense.  I don't need to say these things.  If you are a lifter and using AAS, you should know how to eat.  That's understood.

The rapid strength increase may also be attributed to drugs that stimulate creatine storage, like anavar and dianabol. 

Some other AAS's (i.e. test. suspension, Anadrol) also associated with glycogen-synthetase enzyme stimulation, hence the rapid increase in strength.

The idea that AAS's stimulates the CNS is interesting.  How does this happen?

I'm not a biochemistry major, sorry........my field is Psychology.

Basically, pure androgens stimulate the neural pathways via the CNS.  It's what they are hardwired to do.  This is why Halotestin is the best drug for strength athletes.  It doesn't aromatize and is a pure androgen.  As you head toward the Anabolic scale with drugs like Deca, Winstrol, EQ the effect is a buildup in lean mass rather than strength.

I can't explain the technical aspects, but that's the jist of it......




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IFBBwannaB

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2006, 11:48:47 PM »
Exacly like Kicker said.Some steroids change the mineral balance in your cells and this cause a quick increase in size and strength.

For example Dbol make some big and importent changes while you on it.Thats why even with Nolva you will jump alot of weight from Dbol at the start.You do retain water,but they are in the muscle cells which means thats new muscle BUT since they are there because of the new mineral balance they will drain out once you stop taking Dbol.


DIVISION

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2006, 12:24:48 AM »
Exacly like Kicker said.Some steroids change the mineral balance in your cells and this cause a quick increase in size and strength.

For example Dbol make some big and importent changes while you on it.Thats why even with Nolva you will jump alot of weight from Dbol at the start.You do retain water,but they are in the muscle cells which means thats new muscle BUT since they are there because of the new mineral balance they will drain out once you stop taking Dbol.

No, IFBBwannaB.

With D-bol it's a matter of water retention in the muscles and joints which leads to leverage when you are lifting.  It's really that simple.  Same thing with Deca.

When the muscle and joint tissue is engorged with fluid it allows you to handle more weight, sort of like a buffer.





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Blake

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2006, 10:07:54 AM »
Here's a decent read on the relationship between AAS and the nervous system:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/bahrke/bahrke03.htm

kicker

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2006, 11:36:07 AM »
Here's a decent read on the relationship between AAS and the nervous system:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/bahrke/bahrke03.htm

Thanks, good looking out bro.

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2006, 01:50:35 PM »
Div what I said about Dbol is a proven fact.It have a dramatic effect on the mineral balance inside your muscle tissue.Some theory about leverage from puffed up elbows aint gonna cut it.

Thats  the reason people can get such sudden weight/strength changes on Dbol when they go on and off it.Even with an Estrogen blocker you can still see a 2-6lbs of weight gain and a noticable strength increase.

No greasy elbows,just muscle cells pumped with all the good minerals they need.

DIVISION

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2006, 03:38:05 PM »
Div what I said about Dbol is a proven fact.It have a dramatic effect on the mineral balance inside your muscle tissue.Some theory about leverage from puffed up elbows aint gonna cut it.

Thats  the reason people can get such sudden weight/strength changes on Dbol when they go on and off it.Even with an Estrogen blocker you can still see a 2-6lbs of weight gain and a noticable strength increase.

No greasy elbows,just muscle cells pumped with all the good minerals they need.

Yes, that effect is specific to D-bol, but the water retention in the muscle and connective tissues also plays a role in leverage, allowing for heavier weights.

It's not a simple matter of mineral supplementation.......



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kicker

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2006, 11:01:47 PM »
Some AAS allow for stimulation of creatine storage or glycogen loading as I mentioned earlier.  Some enhance other energy pathways in muscle cells.  Whatever the case, more energy available to fuel muscle contractions + enhanced neural drive = stronger muscle contractions.

DIV, I don't really follow the notion of "leverage".  How does increased water retention increase strength?

ag-guys

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2006, 05:25:11 AM »
I don't have any studies, mainly because I don't think there are any dealing with strength buildup in athletes ingesting Halotestin, Trenbolone, Methyltestosterone, Cheque drops.

My thinking is that the more androgenic a substance is, the more it stimulates the strength recruitment muscle fibers through a yet undefined mechanism in the CNS, whereas the more anabolic substances have more to do with tissue buildup without the direct impanct on the strength quotient.

I have experienced this firsthand.  Halotestin is the #1 androgen for strength, mainly because it is purely an androgen and doesn't aromatize at all.  Nothing else feels like fresh Halo before a workout.

Halo = Gorilla
Tren = Bull
Deca = Horse
Winstrol = Pony




DIV

Halo = Gorilla, agree , very strong product :)

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IFBBwannaB

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Re: Strenght increase without size or muscle fiber recruitment Why
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2006, 05:49:40 AM »
The leverage theory dosent stand.Even if we will take it into consideration it just wont do much.
The diffrence in angle that is suposedly created by it wont be remotly noticable compared to real life results.

If I remember it correctly its something like this:

Energy=Work=Intergral on F*L*sin(A)

The suposed leverage will change A and L in such a small diffrence that it can be unmentioned.