Stagnation, plateau, receptor downregulate, body adapt

[Damios]

Hi,

What do you think about use one compound for more time than "normally"? For example: npp/tren.

Most often the normally cycle with NPP / Tren Ace is 8-12 weeks. People end cycle after that time often from health or sides reason. And it's good choose of course.

But... any people don't have bad sides, they are good tolerate this compounds and can run it more time.

What do You think about run this same compound more time i.e NPP in steady dose. For example 500mg for 6-9 months? Do You think NPP will be stop work after any time on steady dose ( something like receptor downregulate or body adapting to steroid )?

I red too that more time you are using the more you can have benefit from it...

And i say again: we don't talk about health reasons :-)

Your's exepiernce? Does anyone run one compond in steady dose for a long time with good results?

[galeniko]

there is no longet than usual.

the compund doesnt plateau, you do.

as simple as that

[Damios]

So galeniko, from your experience for example NPP will be this same work in 6 week cycle in 500mg dose how in 30 week in 500mg dose? And this fking plateau, stagnation about which people are saying is from for example that you go up with your weight so you must add more calories from food to continue grow or you can have stagnation from training and it can be next factor which you need to change?

Did You run maybe any compound in STEADY dose for long time than normally ( i.e more than 16-20 weeks )? Something other than test of course 

[Damios]

And wat about myostatin after 8 weeks?

[steamboatwillie]

And wat about myostatin after 8 weeks?

Legend has it that the myostatin increase that happens around week 8 declines around week 20....so just stay on forever.  Problem solved!

[Damios]

I know that NPP/Deca is for me the best drug. Nice fullness, nice joints recovery, nice strenght gains, no water retention etc. Sweet spot is about 525-700mg week. I can stay on this dose very long time without fking sides and with nice health ( yes, i do blood work every 2 monts - have it for free ).

I would like to stay on it about 6-8 months straight. Something like

1-xx cypio 250mg week
1-32 NPP/Deca 525mg week ( base of slow, steady make gains )

So do You mean i can correct my progress only by change something in diet/training and stay on this same dose of anabolic ( something like background for better results )? No need to change compounds/dosages every few weeks?

 

[galeniko]

yeah bro, just run whatever coupound you can that allows you to feel good and stay healhty.

no need at all to change compounds, really.


run the one of preference and add another one at times if you feel like it.


sure after a while, there will be no more results wo upping the dose, and upping the food will eventualy lead to fat gains.

[Damios]

sure after a while, there will be no more results wo upping the dose, and upping the food will eventualy lead to fat gains.

It's of course true.

But do You think it can hit after 9, 12 months?

I think no... cuz bodybuilding is very long way, people need a lot of years to get good build. If this thing hit after only one year of straight use for example 525-700mg tren ace what is "normally" dosage in this world right now how many mgs people will be must pin after 5, 10 years of usage gear? 5g tren week? 10g tren? There are people who can make progress on this same dosage with 10+ years experience with Bodybuilding Lifestyle so i don't think it is fast way to hit plateau from one dosage.

 Do You agree? 

[Jizmo]

It's of course true.

But do You think it can hit after 9, 12 months?

I think no... cuz bodybuilding is very long way, people need a lot of years to get good build. If this thing hit after only one year of straight use for example 525-700mg tren ace what is "normally" dosage in this world right now how many mgs people will be must pin after 5, 10 years of usage gear? 5g tren week? 10g tren? There are people who can make progress on this same dosage with 10+ years experience with Bodybuilding Lifestyle so i don't think it is fast way to hit plateau from one dosage.

 Do You agree? 

they most likely keep making progress cuz they drop down their dosages for health reasons every couple months, then lose some muscle, gain some fat, then they regain what they lost by hitting it hard again (with the same dosages).

[Damios]

Yes, health reason is always the most imporant thing

But i check in first post that we don't talk about it. I want to know are there other factors than health/sides reason which determinate that we must go off with this same compound in steady dose.

[whitewidow]

Hi,

What do you think about use one compound for more time than "normally"? For example: npp/tren.

Most often the normally cycle with NPP / Tren Ace is 8-12 weeks. People end cycle after that time often from health or sides reason. And it's good choose of course.

But... any people don't have bad sides, they are good tolerate this compounds and can run it more time.

What do You think about run this same compound more time i.e NPP in steady dose. For example 500mg for 6-9 months? Do You think NPP will be stop work after any time on steady dose ( something like receptor downregulate or body adapting to steroid )?

I red too that more time you are using the more you can have benefit from it...

And i say again: we don't talk about health reasons :-)

Your's exepiernce? Does anyone run one compond in steady dose for a long time with good results?

I am not a big believer in just average gymrats running drugs like tren for a long period of time. Testosterone you can safely cruise on all year and even that I don't suggest. I am more of a Blast cycle guy since all my gains come within the first 8 weeks everything past 8-10 weeks I don't get much out of it,so I don;t risk my health for no gains. I si mply peak on my cycle wich dosn;t take long and quit and do a good pct and then start over again after a few months. Now if you are a genetic freak and are profiting out of bodybuilding and need to be in peak shape all year you might have to run these compounds for much longer then recommended. nothing I would do. I know I have no chance of making it big in the Bodybuilding circuit. I would just be pissing my health and money away. It costs a shitload of money to be running HGH/slin and all the necessary steroids to make it big plus you need a great starting base and freak genetics wich I do not have.

I can get looking way better then most guys at my gym but would look like nothing special in a NPC show. You really have to get the dieting down before you should even be using any gear.some people think they have plateued out but they jst have a shitty diet once you get these guys diets on track they gain another 8-15 lbs in pure muscle mass then you start the steroids once you are maxed out with doing everything possibly natural.

[BodyMachine]

Damios my goals may be different than yours, but I will comment on my experience. I do believe that the body adapts to a dose and to push through you simply have to increase the dose AND up the calorie intake. However, some drugs are not healthy very long term; I wouldn't run say Tren year round at over a gram, nor would I run dbol at 100mgs more than 3 months; in other words certain drugs need to be cycled. That said, Test is safe (for the most part) year round and is a very good mass builder in high doses, the thing you have to watch out for is cholesterol and estrogen levels (E2). Most people do not have a problem with anything below a gram of Test, now 4 grams is another story altogether. A good cycle is Test & deca. Simple. Modulate the dose. I can't recommend doses because I don't know your stats or goals. But like I said, at a plateau, increase the dose, and eat more (clean). Do cardio. Alternately at the 6 month mark, you can add in a oral if you plateau, like dbol at 40mg for 10weeks, or swap the deca for another oil (tren but too much tren may not increase mass, it tends to be best for cutting at that point). Bottom line, keep it simple, train, eat, grow. Fewer compounds the better.

[Damios]

Thanks for next posts!

I know, the health reason to go off from compound is the most imporant thing. I don't discuss with it.

I make this topic for ask are there other reasons why people are changing/going off with oils.

Hmm... for example. Will be any diffrent in making progress/make gains between this three options in Your opinion?

1st:
1-32 deca 750mg week

2nd:
1-12 deca 250mg week
13-20 deca 500mg week
21-32 deca 750mg week

3rd:
1-12 deca 750mg week
13-20 Going OFF from deca
21-32 deca 750mg week

It's only example of course. And i write again, we aren't talking about health, moneys etc becouse all people which are wise, know what can make deca in our body ( health ).

[ESFitness]

the only reason I go switch off tren ace or npp is because I get tired of doing shots 3-4x a week... and I shoot bilaterally, so that's 6-8 needles per week, a minimum of 2cc per needle, usually 3cc.

if I could make a high dose, painless npp (something like 250-300mg/ml) I'd be happy with just shooting just 1cc 3-4x per week. perhaps i'll play around with some gui or EO and see what I can come up with... now, 1cc of 300mg npp plus 1cc of 400mg enan is something I think I could tolerate to do 3x a week for an extended time.... maybe.

[BodyMachine]

Damois putting health aside for this discussion and assuming all things are on point, you simply will only grow to a certain amount when taking x amount of a compound consistently forever. Example, if you take 750mg Deca for a year and 1g of test, will eventually plateau (reach the limit of how big you can get on that dose). To get over that, you simply have to up the dose. Now, I firmly believe people are impatient and simply want to see results so they keep adding compounds or increase the dose too early, I don't agree with this; though I even have been guilty of this in the past. Deca in particular takes time. I'd also say anyting below 600mg for a healthy person is a waste of time. 1g Test, 600g Deca, run for 5 months, monitor ones progress, make sure they eat in the process, do light/moderate cardio as well. If at that point one stops growing, up everything 400mg (personally I do not ever go over 2g of Deca max, and try to keep 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio of Test to Deca, just because that is what works for me and keeps my sex drive up). Individuals change compounds for various reasons. Some respond better to some then others. Tren is a decent drug and can give one a harder look then deca, but in excess (over a gram I find it's better for cutting, plus it comes with a lot of side effects). Granted, for a first cycle, only Test should be used, period

[Damios]

I did research od Getbig and i found some nice posts:

Slowly increasing the dosage only delays the sides as long as it takes you to build up the dosage. Once you hit 1500mg you are going to have the same sides in my experience. Whether it's week 4 or week 8 the sides seem to match the dose and that's why i always just started with my desired dose and when i did ramp up i never noticed any benefits.

Many people seem to plateau around 5-6 weeks and this is why i have been rotating different compounds every 2 months or so. One thing to remember is that those first few weeks your are gaining all of your water weight, but you aren't really adding any muscle. It takes months/years to build muscle and once you hit a plateau that doesn't mean you aren't gaining muscle anymore. In my experience, i typically start to gain the mature muscle at around 12 weeks and this is why i like to run long cycles.

On the 8 month cycle i did in 2012, i gained about 12 pounds in the first 8 weeks. By the end of that 8 month period i had gained 20 pounds of "quality" weight without an incease in bodyfat. I don't think the body stops gaining after a few weeks; in fact i believe that a person can easily gain muscle over many years of just taking 500mg of Test. I know a good friend who has been on 750mg of Test E for 3 years and he has gained around 35 pounds of solid mass. He hasn't lowered the dosage at all. This guy knows how to eat and trains with me, so i see him all the time.

Everyone is different, but that's my take on it.

I would just start with the dose that you want to run. If you want 500mg run 500mg, if you want 1,000mg then start there...and so on. There's no reason to "ramp up."

well, I don't disagree with the method.

I think you'll plateau a little though.

It's my belief that the body requires a certain amount of androgens/anabolics/hormones to maintain a certain bodyweight.

every increasing dosages would in theory get to a point where you're running 3g/wk, or 5g/wk (and so on) all year long... now, I've done that, but I wouldn't recommend somebody else doing that.

I think 'crusing' on 500mg test/wk (which is like 20x what normal hrt doses would be), and 'blasting' at 2-2.5g/wk or so for 12weeks (even 8wks) is 'safer' and more effective. and no, I don't think you need to increase your 'blast' dosage everytime. if I believed you needed ever-increasing dosages, by now I'd be running 20g/wk during a 'blast', but I don't. I stick to about 4-7g total (depending on what drugs I use, including orals which account for up to 1400mg/wk or so).

I'm not a big fan of using the 'blast/cruise' name... for me blast=on cycle, and cruise=off cycle... except "off cycle" for me means I'm still using testosterone.

[Damios]

So... to sum up. The typical cycles which suppose to go OFF or change compounds after few weeks ( 8-12 is the most often ) are coming from health reasons, easier recovery etc.

But if we will be consider only progress, gains, weight etc. it's not any reason to not use one compound, very long time, in steady dose which not have bad effect to our body, right?

It isn't any problem to stay on one compound very long time and make steady gains?

 

[Damios]

the only reason I go switch off tren ace or npp is because I get tired of doing shots 3-4x a week... and I shoot bilaterally, so that's 6-8 needles per week, a minimum of 2cc per needle, usually 3cc.

if I could make a high dose, painless npp (something like 250-300mg/ml) I'd be happy with just shooting just 1cc 3-4x per week. perhaps i'll play around with some gui or EO and see what I can come up with... now, 1cc of 300mg npp plus 1cc of 400mg enan is something I think I could tolerate to do 3x a week for an extended time.... maybe.

ESF, did You hit any point when you stop make progres from any compound? I'm asking You becouse you are using a "little bigger" (  ) dosages which can in theory work all time, without any plateau, for person who is using steroids a lot of years

[ESFitness]

ESF, did You hit any point when you stop make progres from any compound? I'm asking You becouse you are using a "little bigger" (  ) dosages which can in theory work all time, without any plateau, for person who is using steroids a lot of years

no. it's my belief that there's a 'sweet spot' at about 4-6g/wk where the drug/drugs will always work, the only thing that plateau's is your food intake. so long as you're still taking in enough kcals and your protein is adequate, you'll ALWAYS continue to grow (if 'growing' is what you're after, as opposed to 'cutting').

different drugs will have different 'effects' (I just woke up, can't think of a better way to put it. lol). so when changing drugs, you're just trying to minimize the unwanted effects.. such as water retention.

now, that being said, I believe you can get away with smaller dosages with some drugs, especially tren.. and obviously methyltrienolone (in which you're total weekly dose would be a max of about 14mg, I wouldn't be comfortable going over that.. 2mg/day).

so in short...

at 4-6g, you'll ALWAYS make gains. the ONLY limiting factor is kcal intake. (and your genetics, obviously)

[galeniko]

well esf, sure can add cals, but at some point the only gains will be fat.

so, when one has built up dosages step by step to the point where gains become fat before upping both again, one is maxed out.

not sure how one can even fit so much injectable oil in themselves year round, running 5gramms a week.

thats half a liter oil yearly, lol.

[Damios]

no. it's my belief that there's a 'sweet spot' at about 4-6g/wk where the drug/drugs will always work, the only thing that plateau's is your food intake. so long as you're still taking in enough kcals and your protein is adequate, you'll ALWAYS continue to grow (if 'growing' is what you're after, as opposed to 'cutting').

different drugs will have different 'effects' (I just woke up, can't think of a better way to put it. lol). so when changing drugs, you're just trying to minimize the unwanted effects.. such as water retention.

now, that being said, I believe you can get away with smaller dosages with some drugs, especially tren.. and obviously methyltrienolone (in which you're total weekly dose would be a max of about 14mg, I wouldn't be comfortable going over that.. 2mg/day).

so in short...

at 4-6g, you'll ALWAYS make gains. the ONLY limiting factor is kcal intake. (and your genetics, obviously)

Thanks again!

But that "4-6g" isn't essential to use in "first" few months, years of using gear, right? The good way is starting from lower doses and steady go up with it. Something like 1g in first year, latter add next umpteen MGs and so on...



Yea, tren is nice drug to "bulk" or "cut". But i don't know anyone who can stay on it few months. HDL go down etc., harash drug. It must be any reason why Bodybuilders are using it only few weeks before show.

[galeniko]

damios, you are waaay overethinking this all.

look.

find a compound you can run forever while staying healthy and sexualy active.

run a dose for as long youre entirely maxed out, then add bit calories.slowly.

when you start getting fat, upp the dose until max out, theh slowly up cals again.

etc.

size comes from upping the dose slowly over time and being on non stop.easy as.

if youre not ready por willing to up the dose over time, you will not grow and have to settle with what you have.

so if you want look good on the beach, small doses will be enough, if you want look good on stage,this will take time and plenty gear.

do the smart thing and only look good on the beach.

[galeniko]

Thanks again!

But that "4-6g" isn't essential to use in "first" few months, years of using gear, right? The good way is starting from lower doses and steady go up with it. Something like 1g in first year, latter add next umpteen MGs and so on...



Yea, tren is nice drug to "bulk" or "cut". But i don't know anyone who can stay on it few months. HDL go down etc., harash drug.

well thats the thing is health a factor or not.do you care or not.
if you care for ealth use the minimum and be happy with what you get out of it.

hell fuck no gramm or gramms of gear in first year are stupid thing to do.

post a pic to even see where you stand.

the slower one builds it up the longer one will last obviously.

[Damios]

gal, i get an understanding all of it

I'm sorry for my a lot of question but you know... until then i was living from advices on other boards.... you know something like that:


"For Your 4rd cycle:

1-8 prop 100mg eod
1-7 npp 100mg eod

and you must go PCT!"

I registered on getbig becouse i saw here is a lot of users who are wise, experienced and giving truth advices. It's imporant for to me hear something about people which are not "lier from Internet". Here is a lot of comptetitor, peoples who have a lot of year experience with gear, diet, training etc.

[BodyMachine]

Gal, esf, and I pretty much said the same thing. Up the dose slowly, eat enough, if u plateau up the dose more, take few compounds (test / deca). Simple. No need for short esters like Prop or Npp unless it's last few weeks of prep. Deca and Test c or e. Small dose for beginners, not 4gram like ESF and Me. 1g Test C and 600 Deca. Never get off Test. Cruise around 350 then get back on assuming u want to make this your lifestyle