Author Topic: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary  (Read 3231 times)

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2014, 08:08:10 AM »
Cruz is insane.  But he did do what he promised:

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2013/07/19/ted-cruz-joins-the-defund-obamacare-or-shut-down-the-government-crowd



Too bad he hurt America with his political opportunism.  He is principled.  But so was Mussolini.

Once again, explain how he is 'insane'  ::)

You come off as trying to sound real intelligent and painting the right as ignorant peabrains...yet you have done nothing but regurgitate the standard baseless left wing talking points with nothing to back them up.

'Authoritarian' lmao...rich irony coming from someone who supports the party of BAN and their nanny-state, 'we will tell you whats best for you' ideology

FredHayekowski

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2014, 08:53:57 AM »
Once again, explain how he is 'insane'  ::)

You come off as trying to sound real intelligent and painting the right as ignorant peabrains...yet you have done nothing but regurgitate the standard baseless left wing talking points with nothing to back them up.

'Authoritarian' lmao...rich irony coming from someone who supports the party of BAN and their nanny-state, 'we will tell you whats best for you' ideology
My first post in this thread is a good example of fact based analysis.  Point out the errors in that post.

Cruz is insane b/c he damaged the country financially with his promised shutdown of the government.  That is another undeniable fact.  Anyone willingly damaging the country, the USA, for no apparent end other than to prove he hates the ACA is insane.

I might make a thread on why you and your right wing friends are authoritarian.  Here's some info for now:

1.  Complete surrender to Authoritarians - Rush, Palin, Beck do all your thinking and you agree.  Cruz & Paul say ridiculous things easily refutable and your ilk parrots them unexamined.

2.  Motivational and irrational fear:  Obama is a Kenyan, dictator, socialist, destroying your rights and the USA itself.."the most radical president ever"...who would not even retaliate in a nuclear war."  As it's been posted before - Obama is to the right politically.  The ACA isn't just a law you disagree with, no, it will create death panels killing your grandparents, euthanizing downs syndrome babies and taking your jobs.  The Tea Party is a scared party that is exploited by the Authoritarian figureheads.

3.  Hostile Self-righteousness - Tea partiers are the only True Americans.  Not liberals.  They are commies.  Your hostility to any divergent viewpoint is obvious.  Just look at this site.  You tea partiers gang up on any disparate opinion...any opinion of your own, no matter how foolish, must be abided by.  You shut down debate, you don't encourage it.

4.  Racist - your group is tight ethnocentrically speaking.

5.  Prejudicial victimization:  You are always the victim and you project your own obvious infirmities on your opponents.  You saw my first post and did not address it.  Why?  It was counter to your programmed understanding of the tea party propaganda, so you lashed out at me.  Look at that first post again.  The look at your latest post how "I'm really the authoritarian based on some non-existent 'nanny state.'

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2014, 09:41:43 AM »
Your entire premises are flawed from the start. Clearly you are so enamored of the Left and filled with bs about the Right that any attempt to change your mind will probably be futile.
to start with, the cause of the 'shutdown' was entirely on reid, obama and the dems, for their complete refusal to compromise or even negotiate AT ALL. Only one side was all or nothing-the dems. The House passed measures to keep funding everything but ocare. It was the dems who decided ' all or nothing', who were totally willing to shut own whatever it took to keep their unpopular ocare just as they wanted it.
The irony that follows is mindboggling; the dems were willing to stall everything to keep their pet legislation alive and unchanged, despite the fact that the majority of the population DID NOT SUPPORT IT. Cruz, in his opposition to ocare, actually represented the majority of the nation. He did exactly what his constituents elected him to do. He did what he said he would do. How is that crazy?
And of course the richest irony of all was that the dems, after weeks of smearing cruz in the worst possible way, started seeing ocare unfold disastrously, and pressured obama to do EXACTLY WHAT CRUZ WANTED HIM TO DO.

Cruz's actions and statements were proven correct and COMPLETELY VALIDATED as events unfolded. The dems have been delaying and rewriting the law on the fly for months now, despite shutting down the gov in stubborness whe  cruz asked them to do the same thing. How on earth can this be defended in tbe face of such blinding hypocrisy??

The only ones 'hurting america' is the obama adminstration and their policies, not 'ted cruz'. This is playing out before our eyes, despite the liberal media's relentless whitewashing and sugar coating attempts. Any 'hurt' caused by the shutdown was 100% on the administration, as they were not only ultimately responsible, but attempted to deliberately 'make it hurt' with nonsensical closures and such because they knew their media arm would spin it to ensure the majority of the public blamed the republicans, if not ted cruz personally.

Lastly, your claim that the tea party 'gets marching orders' from rush or fox news is laughable...fox mostly represents the establishment GOP, who is actively waging war on the tea party. The whole 'rush' thing is just another left wing talking point. Ive never listened or watched Rush in my entire life. I think hannity is a smug annoying douche. Of the 3 main political groups( dem, GOP, TEA), none is so fundamentally anti-authoritarian in their ideology as the TP. This is clearly shown in their support for limited government, individual liberty, and their naturally suspicious of consolidated power, anti-establishment thinking, as well as their champions (cruz) refusing to 'play along' with their so-called 'leaders' despite massive criticism.
How does any of this represent 'rigid authoritarianism' ? For examples of that, there is no better example than the current democratic party, with their 'cult of personality' dear leader obama, their virtual lockstep with all marching orders passed down from him almost to a man, and their war on individual liberty and expansion of the central government authority, intention to 'work around congress when i know whats best for the american people', and general philosophy that 'government knows best' and that people cannot be trusted to make decisions for themselves.

And the 'racist' thing is so desperate and baseless, it does not even merit discussion.

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2014, 09:55:23 AM »
I like cruz in that he's stuck to his guns on these issues, while rand, paul, and rubio have all folded into Rinos.

however, I dislike one thing about him - trying to disown the govt shutdown that he clearly ushered in.  "it was obama..."

No, it was you, and a lot of people in your base love that shit, so just stop thinking about swing voters in fall 2016 and just embrace what you did there.

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2014, 11:00:29 AM »
I like cruz in that he's stuck to his guns on these issues, while rand, paul, and rubio have all folded into Rinos.

however, I dislike one thing about him - trying to disown the govt shutdown that he clearly ushered in.  "it was obama..."

No, it was you, and a lot of people in your base love that shit, so just stop thinking about swing voters in fall 2016 and just embrace what you did there.

One senator cannot 'shut down the government' by himself.

The decision to impliment 'the shutdown' was made by the administration, not by 'ted cruz'.

The administration was not 'forced' to do anything. They made the decision to do so, gambling that they could put the blame on cruz. Ted cruz cannot force the obama administration to do anything singlehandedly, give me a break.

He became the public face for it due to his long filibuster, but it is extremely delusional to believe that reid, obama and the dems were just innocent victims here ::)

Cruz's base applauded him because he actually stood and fought where everyone else did the usual cave, not because he 'shut down the government'

Dos Equis

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2014, 11:06:41 AM »
One senator cannot 'shut down the government' by himself.

The decision to impliment 'the shutdown' was made by the administration, not by 'ted cruz'.

The administration was not 'forced' to do anything. They made the decision to do so, gambling that they could put the blame on cruz. Ted cruz cannot force the obama administration to do anything singlehandedly, give me a break.

He became the public face for it due to his long filibuster, but it is extremely delusional to believe that reid, obama and the dems were just innocent victims here ::)

Cruz's base applauded him because he actually stood and fought where everyone else did the usual cave, not because he 'shut down the government'

Exactly.  Completely agree. 

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2014, 12:40:37 PM »
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/28/1273041/-Jon-Stewart-debunks-Ted-Cruz-s-lies-about-the-shutdown#

jon stewart video pretty much wrecking this argument, and in a pretty funny way too.

oh, i know, lib lib lib lib lib lib...

but yeah, cruz owns that shit.

FredHayekowski

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2014, 12:56:06 PM »
Your entire premises are flawed from the start. Clearly you are so enamored of the Left and filled with bs about the Right that any attempt to change your mind will probably be futile.
to start with, the cause of the 'shutdown' was entirely on reid, obama and the dems, for their complete refusal to compromise or even negotiate AT ALL. Only one side was all or nothing-the dems. The House passed measures to keep funding everything but ocare. It was the dems who decided ' all or nothing', who were totally willing to shut own whatever it took to keep their unpopular ocare just as they wanted it.
Do you want me to catalog all of the republican quotes targeting a government shutdown and once accomplished, stating 'we got exactly what we wanted.'

So it really was the Democrats that shut down the government?  That's what Thomas Sowell said.  Except he was lying through his teeth and you believed it because he told you so and it fit your prejudice.  So it must be true.  Another authoritarian trait.

Did the democrats change the rules the night before the resolution vote on the gridlocked Senate bill?  No, the republicans did that here:  http://rules.house.gov/bill/113/hj-res-59-sa-1

So what happened?  The republican majority House Rules Committee voted the night of Sept. 30 to change that rule for this specific bill. They added language dictating that any motion "may be offered only by the majority Leader or his designee."  That would be Eric Cantor.  A lunatic fringe republican.  The spending bill never made it to the floor for a full vote b/c of the republicans and Eric Cantor.


Quote
The irony that follows is mindboggling; the dems were willing to stall everything to keep their pet legislation alive and unchanged, despite the fact that the majority of the population DID NOT SUPPORT IT. Cruz, in his opposition to ocare, actually represented the majority of the nation. He did exactly what his constituents elected him to do. He did what he said he would do. How is that crazy?
There is no irony.  The republicans set out to shut down the government from day one and they did it.  And then they blamed the democrats and you ran with that incorrect story arc.
Another authoritarian trait.
Quote
And of course the richest irony of all was that the dems, after weeks of smearing cruz in the worst possible way, started seeing ocare unfold disastrously, and pressured obama to do EXACTLY WHAT CRUZ WANTED HIM TO DO.
Again, there's no irony b/c the republicans did exactly what they intended to do.
And please, tell the millions and millions of children and adults previously barred from insurance coverage due to a pre-existing condition like cancer what an unmitigated failure the ACA is.

I dare you.  Total lack of empathy for other people--another Authoritarian trait.


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Cruz's actions and statements were proven correct and COMPLETELY VALIDATED as events unfolded. The dems have been delaying and rewriting the law on the fly for months now, despite shutting down the gov in stubborness whe  cruz asked them to do the same thing. How on earth can this be defended in tbe face of such blinding hypocrisy??
Do you see how you are projecting Cruz and his intended gov shut down on democrats?  Sure, of course, the ACA was the law of the land after the Sup. Ct. gave it the greenlight so naturally, the democrats tried to shut down the government to scuttle their own legislation.

Do you see how crazy that sounds now?  Do you see what you're doing by projecting Cruz's insane behavior on the democrats?

Quote
The only ones 'hurting america' is the obama adminstration and their policies, not 'ted cruz'. This is playing out before our eyes, despite the liberal media's relentless whitewashing and sugar coating attempts. Any 'hurt' caused by the shutdown was 100% on the administration, as they were not only ultimately responsible, but attempted to deliberately 'make it hurt' with nonsensical closures and such because they knew their media arm would spin it to ensure the majority of the public blamed the republicans, if not ted cruz personally.
More projection.  What more needs to be said?  We have a plethora of rightwing republican quotes stating - we're going to shutdown the government", "We got what we wanted, we shut down the government"  The republicans changed the voting rules to putting all the power to bring an up/down vote on the bill in Cantor's hands and he declined, which assured a gov. shutdown.  He's a republican.

And you still blame the democrats?  That's straight out of the authoritarian psychological profile.

Quote
Lastly, your claim that the tea party 'gets marching orders' from rush or fox news is laughable...fox mostly represents the establishment GOP, who is actively waging war on the tea party. The whole 'rush' thing is just another left wing talking point. Ive never listened or watched Rush in my entire life. I think hannity is a smug annoying douche. Of the 3 main political groups( dem, GOP, TEA), none is so fundamentally anti-authoritarian in their ideology as the TP. This is clearly shown in their support for limited government, individual liberty, and their naturally suspicious of consolidated power, anti-establishment thinking, as well as their champions (cruz) refusing to 'play along' with their so-called 'leaders' despite massive criticism.
I did not supply an exhaustive list of rightwing authoritarian figures.  I don't have to.  The authoritarian psychology is one of 'follow the leader' out of fear.  The authoritarian individual is a bully in groups, drawing wilder and wilder behavior from the support of his equally misinformed colleagues.  Even when presented with counterfactual evidence, the authoritarian will cling to his dogmatic beliefs rather than mediate his understanding of the situation.

Quote
How does any of this represent 'rigid authoritarianism' ? For examples of that, there is no better example than the current democratic party, with their 'cult of personality' dear leader obama, their virtual lockstep with all marching orders passed down from him almost to a man, and their war on individual liberty and expansion of the central government authority, intention to 'work around congress when i know whats best for the american people', and general philosophy that 'government knows best' and that people cannot be trusted to make decisions for themselves.

And the 'racist' thing is so desperate and baseless, it does not even merit discussion.
See my prior distinctions.  I'll make a full thread on this when I have the time.  My two year old son just smashed my $2000 tv.

If liberals are anything, it's anti-authoritarian.  We can't get out of our own way.  We can't agree on anything.  We wanted the Public Option, we got republican light.  We wanted the end of the wars and Bush et al. tried for war crimes, we got dick, we wanted support for organized labor, OBama never heard of the AFLCIO, we wanted so much more and instead we got a rightwing moderate president in moderate leftwing rhetorical clothing.

Does that sound like liberals towing the Obama company line?

The people / government decision making meme is a waste of time.  it's fairly meaningless.

Tell me, who flies the stars and bars?  State's rights?  Voter suppression legislation?  Hint:  it ain't liberals.

FredHayekowski

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2014, 01:04:24 PM »
Exactly.  Completely agree. 
Read my response and tell me if you still completely agree with that hogwash.

You didn't really look into this, did you?  You completely agree b/c it fits your political prejudice.  This isn't debatable and having Matrix point out that one man can't shut down the government is fairly disingenuous.  He was one leading the charge for a government shutdown.  Crazy, authoritarian nonsense that hurt America.

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2014, 05:32:13 PM »
Read my response and tell me if you still completely agree with that hogwash.

You didn't really look into this, did you?  You completely agree b/c it fits your political prejudice.  This isn't debatable and having Matrix point out that one man can't shut down the government is fairly disingenuous.  He was one leading the charge for a government shutdown.  Crazy, authoritarian nonsense that hurt America.

I read most of your response.  I still agree with him. 

What's funny and ironic is you repeatedly calling him and Republicans "authoritarian" then saying in the next breath that your position "isn't debatable." 

In any event, Cruz et al. were vindicated.  Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster.  It should have been delayed, which is what they were asking for.  And the really stupid thing is that  "delay" is exactly what the president is doing with large segments of law, but only to prevent more fallout before the 2014 and 2016 elections. 

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2014, 06:03:55 PM »
obamacare IS garbage.  But until the repubs' alternative is something besides "Repeal.... then we'll figure something out!", I'm not sure they'll get any traction.

The best the repubs can do at this point is to get into power and modify it so it's better.   Like social security and medicare, there is no going back, unfortunately.

FredHayekowski

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2014, 11:59:05 PM »
I read most of your response.  I still agree with him.  

What's funny and ironic is you repeatedly calling him and Republicans "authoritarian" then saying in the next breath that your position "isn't debatable."  
 
In any event, Cruz et al. were vindicated.  Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster.  It should have been delayed, which is what they were asking for.  And the really stupid thing is that  "delay" is exactly what the president is doing with large segments of law, but only to prevent more fallout before the 2014 and 2016 elections.  
You're good at muddying the waters.  "What's funny and ironic..."isn't debatable."  It is a very good thing for you that I'm here to clear up what you are trying to do.  You try to portray me as someone stepping into his own authoritative trap.  But it just ain't so.  The 'what' of what is not debatable is the fact that your and Matrix's assertion that 'the administration' shut down the government is not correct.

Just look at the change of procedural rules by the house republicans that did in fact cause the shutdown...not the Whitehouse, not the democrats.

That's just a non-debatable fact.  An Authoritarian trait is the complete inability to modify one's perspective in the face of countervailing FACTS.

Do you see how you cling to your prejudicial erroneous understanding of the matter?  Do you See that?

And there is your second authoritarian trait with your opinion of the ACA - you just don't disagree with the ACA, it's an "unmitigated disaster."  Except it isn't, is it?  The removal of the pre-existing condition bar for coverage is great for millions and millions of Americans.  You said so yourself in another thread.


JOHN MATRIX

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Re: Tea Party Celebrates Fifth Anniversary
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2014, 08:51:32 AM »
I read most of your response.  I still agree with him. 

What's funny and ironic is you repeatedly calling him and Republicans "authoritarian" then saying in the next breath that your position "isn't debatable." 

In any event, Cruz et al. were vindicated.  Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster.  It should have been delayed, which is what they were asking for.  And the really stupid thing is that  "delay" is exactly what the president is doing with large segments of law, but only to prevent more fallout before the 2014 and 2016 elections. 

Exactly. The irony is strong lol. And the more this clown raves about Obamacare, which is supported by some 30-something percent of the population and is being changed on the fly before our very eyes on almost a weekly basis to try to delay or neutralize its ever-coming pitfalls for the purpose of saving political face, the more of an extremist, strictly partisan obama-worshipping authoritarian he shows himself to be.