US airman stands his ground in Florida, sentenced to 25 years

[240 is Back]

Going to his vehicle to get his gun is NOT AT ALL unusual for someone with a cc permit. If you cc everyday, your weapon is a piece of your attire, ...like your shoes. You take off your shoes when you enter someone else's home if they request it. When you leave, you put your shoes back on. Same with cc. If the establishment requires weapons be left outside, you do so, and you retrieve your weapon upon exiting. He did nothing wrong or inappropriate.

I've carried for almost 17 years now.  It's a tool like car keys, sure.  But if there's a FIGHT happening with dozens of drunk strangers trading haymakers in the parking lot, it is no longer a tool.  He made the trip to get a gun not because it was an everyday tool, but because he needed leverage in the incident.  He was a vet, no doubt on overdrive with the madness of a brawl going on... but the moment he chose to RE-ENTER a drunken brawl WITH A GUN...

I'd like to see his blood alcohol level.  I'd like to see viodetaped proof he wasn't carrying that gun the entire time.  I'd like to hear if his group was part of the initial fight breaking out.  I'd like to see the size of the man that had him fearing for his life, and the angle of shot, and the extent of his injuries.  

Dude ran to get a gun to run into a drunken brawl.  The minute he walks on the charges, you tell people it's okay for 50 people to run to cars and run back into a fight, shooting the first dude that puts hands on him.

[240 is Back]

Again this could have been said for Zimmerman

agreed.  And I thought zimm shuold have gotten 8 years.  Not 25-life as they wanted.
And I think this dude should get 8 years, with probably half that with good behavior... this is FL, after all.

I think i'm pretty consistent.  People that use their guns for elective purposes (IE: THey grab it and run after trouble), then fire it when maybe they really don't have to...), well they need a short prison sentence.  Or, everyone will do this.  People will chase kids with guns thru bushes.  People will run to trucks fo shotguns when their buddy is in a fight at a bar.

[24KT]

As a soldier he should have remained calm and let the authorities handle the problem. He wasn't in immediate danger until he put himself in danger by returning to the melee.  A smart soldier knows when to fight and when not to.

He didn't "return to the melee. Witnesses testified that his attacker Courtney Thrower, broke free from the melee, and randomly attacked him. His attacker himself testified to this fact. He was agitated, full of anger and determined to "take it out on the first person I saw"

The media downplays attacks on whites by blacks.  As you might have noticed there has been a strong push to omit the race of perpetrators and this is done to limit the publics knowledge of the high number of black on white crimes.  Which by the way are several times higher than white on black.

What the f**k does any of this BS have to do with Mr Giles' case?
The media wasn't on trial, and wasn't sentenced 25 years to life for defending itself, Michael Giles was.

Please explain how this was not "Standing Your Ground?"

[StreetSoldier4U]

agreed.  And I thought zimm shuold have gotten 8 years.  Not 25-life as they wanted.
And I think this dude should get 8 years, with probably half that with good behavior... this is FL, after all.

I think i'm pretty consistent.  People that use their guns for elective purposes (IE: THey grab it and run after trouble), then fire it when maybe they really don't have to...), well they need a short prison sentence.  Or, everyone will do this.  People will chase kids with guns thru bushes.  People will run to trucks fo shotguns when their buddy is in a fight at a bar.

This seems reasonable. I could sign off in this.

[blacken700]

I've carried for almost 17 years now.  It's a tool like car keys, sure.  But if there's a FIGHT happening with dozens of drunk strangers trading haymakers in the parking lot, it is no longer a tool.  He made the trip to get a gun not because it was an everyday tool, but because he needed leverage in the incident.  He was a vet, no doubt on overdrive with the madness of a brawl going on... but the moment he chose to RE-ENTER a drunken brawl WITH A GUN...

I'd like to see his blood alcohol level.  I'd like to see viodetaped proof he wasn't carrying that gun the entire time.  I'd like to hear if his group was part of the initial fight breaking out.  I'd like to see the size of the man that had him fearing for his life, and the angle of shot, and the extent of his injuries.  

Dude ran to get a gun to run into a drunken brawl.  The minute he walks on the charges, you tell people it's okay for 50 people to run to cars and run back into a fight, shooting the first dude that puts hands on him.

I thought anything goes in hillbilly ville

[StreetSoldier4U]

In other parts of the country, when Black kids have done that to elderly whites, it is condemned, and people cheer when the elderly white person pulls a gun and shoots his/her attacker. How is this any different? How was he not "standing his ground?" ...because he was flat on his back at the time?

This is where it came from.  He could have called the cops when he went to his car.  I would have.  Getting caught up in a bar fight would have resulted in disciplinary action anyway.  If he loved his military career he would have stayed out of it.

[240 is Back]

I thought anything goes in hillbilly ville

in the country, you stay on your property, everyone has guns, everyone is usually polite, and they hate outsiders.

in the city... in a college nightclub with the kinda mentality of "hey, why don't 50 of us go outside and start punching each other?"  LOL... that's madness.   That's idiocy.  that's violent idiot behavior. 

And leaving this violent situation to get a gun to "rescue your friends" - the same friends that just CHOSE to leave a bar to enter a brawl... that's weak shit right there.  Total BS excuse.

He didn't kill a dude but he did shoot/frag 3 people.  Gotta give him a few years. 

[24KT]

I've carried for almost 17 years now.  It's a tool like car keys, sure.  But if there's a FIGHT happening with dozens of drunk strangers trading haymakers in the parking lot, it is no longer a tool.  He made the trip to get a gun not because it was an everyday tool, but because he needed leverage in the incident.  He was a vet, no doubt on overdrive with the madness of a brawl going on... but the moment he chose to RE-ENTER a drunken brawl WITH A GUN...

I'd like to see his blood alcohol level.  I'd like to see viodetaped proof he wasn't carrying that gun the entire time.  I'd like to hear if his group was part of the initial fight breaking out.  I'd like to see the size of the man that had him fearing for his life, and the angle of shot, and the extent of his injuries.  

Dude ran to get a gun to run into a drunken brawl.  The minute he walks on the charges, you tell people it's okay for 50 people to run to cars and run back into a fight, shooting the first dude that puts hands on him.

But he didn't re-enter the bar or the brawl. His attacker broke free from the brawl and randomly attacked him.

[StreetSoldier4U]

But he didn't re-enter the bar or the brawl. His attacker broke free from the brawl and randomly attacked him.

"According to court documents, an argument quickly escalated into a brawl involving 30 to 40 young men.

Giles reportedly was not involved in the melee but, separated from his friends, went outside to the car where he had a gun, for which he had a concealed carry permit. Giles put the weapon in his pants pocket and searched the crowd for his friends."

He went back into the fray.

[RRKore]

yeah, he could have gotten in his car and left.  Grabbing a gun and running into a 50-man fight is asking for trouble.  He was entering a situation he already knew was full of violence.   Getting punched was a reasonable expectation here.

Then he takes one punch and opens fire.   This guy is a stone cold idiot and while he doesn't deserve 25 years, he probably deserves 5 to 8 years, getting out in 3 and 1/2 years for good behavior.

Heck, I would even question if there's proof he really ran to his car to get the gun.  My $ would be on him having that piece the entire time, and the extra "I ran to my car to get the gun" is something his lawyer made up to avoid admitting having that gun in a bar.

Either way, he chose to grab a gun and ran into an obvious fight.  A reasonable person woudl know he was going to be confronted with violence.  He deserves a few years, but not 25, that's madness.  You have to charge him with something, or you endorse everyone running to cars for glocks every time there's a fistfight.  

240, the story at the link below indicates that the attack that prompted the shooting happened about an hour after the brawl:
http://www.vice.com/read/floridas-gun-laws-are-putting-people-in-prison-for-standing-their-ground-10-20-life

Also, he was looking for his 2 friends, the only people he knew there.  Don't know about you, but if I were in that situation I think it's perfectly reasonable to go looking for my friends (from whom I'd become separated during some chaotic brawl) an hour later without first calling the cops or whatever.  According to Giles, he'd gone looking for his friends because they had not shown up at his car where he had been waiting for them for some time.

It's not looking like he just decided to wade into some black (on black) fraternity brawl while waving around his gun.  

Also per the article at the following link, his attacker (who was likely black, too, btw) admitted in court to having started multiple fights earlier than night and that his attack on the airman was entirely unprovoked:
http://www.empowermagazine.com/unjust-system-stand-your-ground-second-amendment-rights-failed-michael-giles/

According to the story at this next link, a state witness who was a friend of the attacker alleged that on that night she feared that her violent friend (attacker Courtney Thrower) might seriously injure or kill someone:
http://uptownmagazine.com/2013/09/stand-ground-strikes-the-case-of-michael-giles/2/

This story, more than anything, looks to be about how a shitty state law (10 -20 - life) that seems to contradict another shitty state law (SYG) plus some inept legal counsel (that put his parents out to the tune of $125,00-) came together to harshly and inappropriately penalize an upstanding US serviceman (6 years of service during 2 tours in Kuwait and Afghanistan) who is a married father of 3 kids with no history of breaking the law or committing violent acts.  

As per the articles in all 3 of the links above, the judge at sentencing admitted that he thought the punishment was far too severe in this case, but his hands were tied by the Florida laws.

BTW, the poor unlucky airman also happens to be the son of military careerist parents who have served a total of over 40 years in the service of our country (combined).

If anyone deserves some sort of clemency from Florida's state governor it's Airman Giles.  But Giles is black so we'll see what happens.

[24KT]

in the country, you stay on your property, everyone has guns, everyone is usually polite, and they hate outsiders.

in the city... in a college nightclub with the kinda mentality of "hey, why don't 50 of us go outside and start punching each other?"  LOL... that's madness.   That's idiocy.  that's violent idiot behavior. 

And leaving this violent situation to get a gun to "rescue your friends" - the same friends that just CHOSE to leave a bar to enter a brawl... that's weak shit right there.  Total BS excuse.

He didn't kill a dude but he did shoot/frag 3 people.  Gotta give him a few years. 

Neither he nor his friends were involved in the brawl. He was an innocent bystander.

He didn't shoot 3 people. He shot 1 man, ...his attacker: the one who committed the crime in the first place.
The bullet fragmented on contact. So, is the bullet manufacturer culpable for the manufacture of faulty bullets, ...or should Thrower have been charged as an accomplice in the injuries of the other bystanders he didn't attack and knock to the ground?

In answer to your other question, I don't believe his blood alcohol levels were at issue. It would have been brought out in trial.

240, you're right there in Bizarro land... why not get a copy of the transcript or would you prefer not to willingly make your head explode?  

[RRKore]

...

Dude ran to get a gun to run into a drunken brawl.  The minute he walks on the charges, you tell people it's okay for 50 people to run to cars and run back into a fight, shooting the first dude that puts hands on him.

If this were the case, I'd likely agree with you.  Doesn't appear to be the case, though.

[RRKore]

in the country, you stay on your property, everyone has guns, everyone is usually polite, and they hate outsiders.

in the city... in a college nightclub with the kinda mentality of "hey, why don't 50 of us go outside and start punching each other?"  LOL... that's madness.   That's idiocy.  that's violent idiot behavior. 

And leaving this violent situation to get a gun to "rescue your friends" - the same friends that just CHOSE to leave a bar to enter a brawl... that's weak shit right there.  Total BS excuse.

He didn't kill a dude but he did shoot/frag 3 people.  Gotta give him a few years. 

"Chose to leave the bar"?  Where did you get this?  At one of the articles I've just read, it said that the brawl moved outside because the club (understandably) was kicking out a large number of people.  I'll find the article if you want.

[StreetSoldier4U]

"Chose to leave the bar"?  Where did you get this?  At one of the articles I've just read, it said that the brawl moved outside because the club (understandably) was kicking out a large number of people.  I'll find the article if you want.

The article posted here said he left the bar to retrieve the gun from his car.

[RRKore]

The article posted here said he left the bar to retrieve the gun from his car.

That's not untrue if he waited in his car for X amount of time, though, is it?

[StreetSoldier4U]

That's not untrue if he waited in his car for X amount of time, though, is it?

Why would he return to club with his gun?  He would have had plenty of time to notify the authorities while waiting in his car.

[RRKore]

Why would he return to club with his gun?  He would have had plenty of time to notify the authorities while waiting in his car.

Where does it say he returned to the club?  He was attacked at the far side of the parking lot (per the article at the first link I posted, I'm pretty sure).  His car was in the parking lot.

It's not stated anywhere that I've read, but if it's an hour after the brawl, is it possible that the cops were already there (but maybe left already)?  Not sure what Florida cops in that town typically do in response to black frat brawls...

(I'd throw in a couple of not-so-serious jokes about maybe cops didn't come because of some Hebrews-will-be-Hebrews sentiment, but that doesn't seem likely because a couple of the articles have included that gunfire from other folks than the airmen were reported to have occurred at the during the brawl.)

[Soul Crusher]

another DA out of control and a guy getting his life ruined for a bad decision in 5 minuites under bad circumstances

[StreetSoldier4U]

Where does it say he returned to the club?  He was attacked at the far side of the parking lot (per the article at the first link I posted, I'm pretty sure).  His car was in the parking lot.

It's not stated anywhere that I've read, but if it's an hour after the brawl, is it possible that the cops were already there (but maybe left already)?  Not sure what Florida cops in that town typically do in response to black frat brawls...

(I'd throw in a couple of not-so-serious jokes about maybe cops didn't come because of some Hebrews-will-be-Hebrews sentiment, but that doesn't seem likely because a couple of the articles have included that gunfire from other folks than the airmen were reported to have occurred at the during the brawl.)

He was able to leave the brawl as it was happening and grab the gun from his car because he wasn't involved in the brawl originally.  He returned to the brawl and put himself in harms way.  He was punched but what did he expect when he inserted himself into something he wasn't a part of from the start.  What did he hope to do with his gun when he retrieved it and returned to the brawl?  From the time he walked away from the brawl and retrieved his gun he had many alternative options but he choose to enter the brawl with a gun.

[StreetSoldier4U]

another DA out of control and a guy getting his life ruined for a bad decision in 5 minuites under bad circumstances

I agree.  Guy was stupid but this isn't a 25 year mistake.

[240 is Back]

he waited at his car "for a while"?

how long did the brawl go for?   I mean, 5 or 10 minutes?   

[24KT]

another DA out of control and a guy getting his life ruined for a bad decision in 5 minuites under bad circumstances

QFT!!!

[24KT]

he waited at his car "for a while"?

how long did the brawl go for?   I mean, 5 or 10 minutes?   

He waited for over an hour.

He was attacked on the far side of the parking lot by more than one assailant.

His attacker hit him from behind.

According to ballistics, the only bullet they could match to his gun, was a single shot lodged in a wall.

He was sentenced for brandishing and discharging his firearm.

I'd love to hear from that moron who thought it was acceptable to chase after, then fire at a shadow who doesn't answer. I wonder what his take would be on a man in clear danger, who is attacked by multiple attackers, gun fire happening around him, and taken to the ground from behind?

I don't think he should ever have been charged in the first place, ...however, having been charged, his attackers very own testimony should have been sufficient to warrant a not guilty verdict.

[StreetSoldier4U]

He waited for over an hour.

He was attacked on the far side of the parking lot by more than one assailant.

His attacker hit him from behind.

According to ballistics, the only bullet they could match to his gun, was a single shot lodged in a wall.

He was sentenced for brandishing and discharging his firearm.

I'd love to hear from that moron who thought it was acceptable to chase after, then fire at a shadow who doesn't answer. I wonder what his take would be on a man in clear danger, who is attacked by multiple attackers, gun fire happening around him, and taken to the ground from behind?

I don't think he should ever have been charged in the first place, ...however, having been charged, his attackers very own testimony should have been sufficient to warrant a not guilty verdict.

An hour?  No excuses.  He could have done many other things during his waiting period but he chose to return to a brawl he wasn't a part of and with a gun.

[24KT]

An hour?  No excuses.  He could have done many other things during his waiting period but he chose to return to a brawl he wasn't a part of and with a gun.

You either didn't READ any of the articles posted ...or you have a SEVERE READING COMPREHENSION challenge!