Author Topic: Why dont special forces guys go into UFC (Read 8478 times)

headhuntersix · « **Reply #50 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:14:33 PM »

Yeah...I was in A-Stan when they had their first big screw up in 06'. JSOC asked them to leave shortly after. They've done ok...same kind of mission as a regular SEAL team and they have them doing the training missions with A-Stan SOF. I don't know but would suspect that they're doing a lot in the Philippines's...I"ve been trying to get there forever to have all 3 theaters of war covered. The Marines couldn't turn down that JSOC money so MARSOC will survive for now.

benchmstr · « **Reply #51 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:20:04 PM »

Quote from: Shockwave on February 25, 2014, 02:51:25 PM

I hear that as well. Also, Ive heard they get butthurt that the SEALs have pretty much taken over the DA stuff while the SF guys mostly get to trainocals.

for the most part they all just get pulled for assist missions anyways...and i havent heard MARSOC mentioned yet so im doing that..MARSOC will soon start stealing DELTA and the green berets missions like crazy...not a fact, just a theory i have

the only real spec ops doing truly spec ops misions are the tier 1 groups.. be it team 6 or delta

bench

Shockwave · « **Reply #52 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:23:31 PM »

Quote from: benchmstr on February 25, 2014, 04:20:04 PM

for the most part they all just get pulled for assist missions anyways...and i havent heard MARSOC mentioned yet so im doing that..MARSOC will soon start stealing DELTA and the green berets missions like crazy...not a fact, just a theory i have

the only real spec ops doing truly spec ops misions are the tier 1 groups.. be it team 6 or delta

bench

Huh. Interesting. Thats a steep learning curve for the Corps, its fairky outside what thwyre used to doing. Im sure thre will be a few major fuck ups before they get the swing of it and start kicking ass like theyre used to.

I wonder if they sent the MARSOC guys through the SEALs SQT for their CQB training?

headhuntersix · « **Reply #53 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:25:10 PM »

The deal is that its a 2 year billet for most senior guys and apparently a career killer for the officers. They don't have as much institutional maturity to steal those missions yet. They need to survive the cuts and see what happens. It makes them hard to work with when you have turn over like that vice a Delta guy with 15 years in the organization.

Shockwave · « **Reply #54 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:30:41 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on February 25, 2014, 04:25:10 PM

The deal is that its a 2 year billet for most senior guys and apparently a career killer for the officers. They don't have as much institutional maturity to steal those missions yet. They need to survive the cuts and see what happens. It makes them hard to work with when you have turn over like that vice a Delta guy with 15 years in the organization.

why the hell is it only a 2 year billet? Seems retarded. But the Marines never wanted it in the 1st place, so maybe thats their 'fuck you'.

benchmstr · « **Reply #55 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:43:33 PM »

Quote from: Shockwave on February 25, 2014, 04:23:31 PM

Huh. Interesting. Thats a steep learning curve for the Corps, its fairky outside what thwyre used to doing. Im sure thre will be a few major fuck ups before they get the swing of it and start kicking ass like theyre used to.

I wonder if they sent the MARSOC guys through the SEALs SQT for their CQB training?

i want you to remember...MARSOC is just a name...marines have always had special forces..the only reason its called MARSOC now is because the marines stopped fucking around and joined SOCOM...now the funding is damn near unlimited..and the big rules have been eliminated

watch for MARSOC to do big things in the future..im not a marine..but now that they have joined SOCOM i am thinking big

that being said..the rest of the world is just playing bridesmaids to the SEALs and SAS...the selection process alone sets them apart...then the rest is just a dead sprint away from all others...

people may not want to admit it..but the most elite warriors to ever walk the planet are operating right now..and they wear tridents and winged dagers...

bench

headhuntersix · « **Reply #56 on:** February 25, 2014, 04:53:50 PM »

The SAS and Delta are comparable but a regular SEAL Team isn't the same. An Army SOF Battalion's Alpha Company is comparable to a regular SEAL team with all the same capabilities. MARSOC shares some FID missions with regular Army SOF. They're still finding a home. Again the biggest problem is that a SEAL can enlist in the Navy and do 20 plus on the same Team if he wants to. The Army's guys for the most part have 3-5 years in and then can do 15 years or more as Green Berets...same on the Officer side of the house. Hell you can do 20 in the Ranger Regiment. MARSOC...the guys do 2-3 years and are treated like shit when they go back to the fleet. The officers aren't as competitive for promotion and there aren't a lot of senior NCO billets. The guys that founded Delta stayed for years. I can bet there isn't a single plank owner left in MARSOC. Its not their fault and its pissed off SOCOM and JSOC because the unit is multi capable and they've poured money into it. Based on how the budget is shaping up MARSOC might be better served if SOCOM can lean on the Marines to change how they do business with these guys. Maybe getting rid of the current asshole they have as Commandant is a start.

forillagorilla · « **Reply #57 on:** February 25, 2014, 05:19:54 PM »

Quote from: Darren Avey on February 25, 2014, 06:57:09 AM

Ive been hearing again how badass UK and Russian special forces SAS, Delta or whatever are. How come they don't get in da cage? Surely if they re so bad they d do well.
Id love to see some badass SAS guy against Cain.

Cage fighting with "rules" ain't really the kind of training. The idea of training is to never have to engage the enemy in close quarter combat WITHOUT a weapon. I had an old gunny tell me - if you ever find yourself with fixed bayonet - it's a bad fucking day.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #58 on:** February 25, 2014, 05:24:42 PM »

"Fix bayonets" is the last thing you want to hear in combat.....or "prepare to repel boarders"

Shockwave · « **Reply #59 on:** February 25, 2014, 05:31:34 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on February 25, 2014, 05:24:42 PM

"Fix bayonets" is the last thing you want to hear in combat.....or "prepare to repel boarders"

That scene in we were soldiers where sam elliot pulls his sidearm and calmy states 'gentleman, prepare to defend yourselves.....' always makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck.

I agree with you about the SF stuff... all the indoc/selection stuff is comparable across the board... my buddy that went through Recon school had very comparable stories to the SEAL training, just dofferent focuses.

Tier 1 guys are different levels.

benchmstr · « **Reply #60 on:** February 25, 2014, 06:36:30 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on February 25, 2014, 04:53:50 PM

The SAS and Delta are comparable but a regular SEAL Team isn't the same. An Army SOF Battalion's Alpha Company is comparable to a regular SEAL team with all the same capabilities. MARSOC shares some FID missions with regular Army SOF. They're still finding a home. Again the biggest problem is that a SEAL can enlist in the Navy and do 20 plus on the same Team if he wants to. The Army's guys for the most part have 3-5 years in and then can do 15 years or more as Green Berets...same on the Officer side of the house. Hell you can do 20 in the Ranger Regiment. MARSOC...the guys do 2-3 years and are treated like shit when they go back to the fleet. The officers aren't as competitive for promotion and there aren't a lot of senior NCO billets. The guys that founded Delta stayed for years. I can bet there isn't a single plank owner left in MARSOC. Its not their fault and its pissed off SOCOM and JSOC because the unit is multi capable and they've poured money into it. Based on how the budget is shaping up MARSOC might be better served if SOCOM can lean on the Marines to change how they do business with these guys. Maybe getting rid of the current asshole they have as Commandant is a start.

I agree with all...But a regular SEAL team is leaps an bounds more than anything the army can offer with the exception of DELTA...from what I've seen first hand I can say SEALs are a world apart..those guys are a plane of their own

Bench

benchmstr · « **Reply #61 on:** February 25, 2014, 06:52:49 PM »

Quote from: Shockwave on February 25, 2014, 04:23:31 PM

Huh. Interesting. Thats a steep learning curve for the Corps, its fairky outside what thwyre used to doing. Im sure thre will be a few major fuck ups before they get the swing of it and start kicking ass like theyre used to.

I wonder if they sent the MARSOC guys through the SEALs SQT for their CQB training?

Major fuck ups are the biggest learning curves for our military..if it wasn't for delta messing up eagle we wouldn't have DEVGRU lol

Bench

headhuntersix · « **Reply #62 on:** February 25, 2014, 07:22:09 PM »

It really wasn't their fault...and it lead to the creation of the 160th. If Carter had a little more balls they would have done the soccer stadium thing. I suspect that would have been worse.

benchmstr · « **Reply #63 on:** February 25, 2014, 07:29:09 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on February 25, 2014, 07:22:09 PM

It really wasn't their fault...and it lead to the creation of the 160th. If Carter had a little more balls they would have done the soccer stadium thing. I suspect that would have been worse.

Carter was a bitch though...afraid to be the unpopular guy

It all comes down to training...we could have shock and awed..but it all comes down to a cowardly leader and budgetary restraints..

And I agree on eagle claw...weather was a huge factor that
Military intelligents failed on...delta got a black eye on the fault of others

Bench

headhuntersix · « **Reply #64 on:** February 25, 2014, 07:38:01 PM »

It worked out...they were going shoot their way into where ever the hostages were at..shoot their way out and then make it to the Teheran soccer stadium and get picked up. I got to meet one of the guys that peddled around Iran collecting intel for the mission. He broke his foot and it took weeks to bike ride his way out of the country.

benchmstr · « **Reply #65 on:** February 25, 2014, 07:42:50 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on February 25, 2014, 07:38:01 PM

It worked out...they were going shoot their way into where ever the hostages were at..shoot their way out and then make it to the Teheran soccer stadium and get picked up. I got to meet one of the guys that peddled around Iran collecting intel for the mission. He broke his foot and it took weeks to bike ride his way out of the country.

Delta is a tier 1 group who people won't take seriously...and in all honesty that's an advantage for them!

They are a solid tier 1 group that won't stop..2 modes, balls out and KIA...just 1 mission fucked them over..damn shame because they deserve the props within the community(fuck what everyone else thinks)

Bench

headhuntersix · « **Reply #66 on:** February 25, 2014, 07:53:49 PM »

That was before Delta really became Delta/CAG and the organization they are today......they've done very well over the last 13 years. They kicked ass all over A-Stan during the early days and Iraq. Not hearing much about they is usually a good thing...same with the SAS. Neither enjoys seeing their shit in books and movies.

benchmstr · « **Reply #67 on:** February 25, 2014, 08:15:30 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on February 25, 2014, 07:53:49 PM

That was before Delta really became Delta/CAG and the organization they are today......they've done very well over the last 13 years. They kicked ass all over A-Stan during the early days and Iraq. Not hearing much about they is usually a good thing...same with the SAS. Neither enjoys seeing their shit in books and movies.

CIA has been in a sharing mood lately...and they are very close with the SEALs lol

bench

forillagorilla · « **Reply #68 on:** February 25, 2014, 08:39:23 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on February 25, 2014, 05:24:42 PM

"Fix bayonets" is the last thing you want to hear in combat.....or "prepare to repel boarders"

Yeh - those two commands are not good. They basically mean it's over boys let's fight like hell til the end

Mawse · « **Reply #69 on:** February 25, 2014, 08:55:01 PM »

One of the SEALs who consulted on my last project was a cagefighter, since the navy fucked them all over (and they were all in obamas favorite vote winners, SEAL team 6) for their involvement I guess he has a lot more time to train bjj these days $:-\$

forillagorilla · « **Reply #70 on:** February 25, 2014, 09:38:27 PM »

Quote from: Mawse on February 25, 2014, 08:55:01 PM

One of the SEALs who consulted on my last project was a cagefighter, since the navy fucked them all over (and they were all in obamas favorite vote winners, SEAL team 6) for their involvement I guess he has a lot more time to train bjj these days $:-\$

Is SOP in Washington - but it is disgusting how the king and his court used those guys as political pawns. I have heard the argument "he gave the order" - no shit he did and so would Ghandi have if he would have been POTUS and that Intel was received. Do morons REALLY think his military advisors ASKED for the order?? We are naive society but damn.

Roger Bacon · « **Reply #71 on:** February 25, 2014, 09:40:10 PM »

Quote from: visualizeperfection on February 25, 2014, 07:35:13 AM

I dont think special operators go around "picking fights" with the enemy.

ROFL

benchmstr · « **Reply #72 on:** February 25, 2014, 09:48:59 PM »

Quote from: forillagorilla on February 25, 2014, 08:39:23 PM

Yeh - those two commands are not good. They basically mean it's over boys let's fight like hell til the end

its all a mindset...if you are a bad SOB..LOL

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of
us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"
- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

BENCH

Roger Bacon · « **Reply #73 on:** February 25, 2014, 09:52:11 PM »

I can understand how the United States and Russia recruit so many bad asses out of their population, but where do Canadians for example get tough soldiers for elite units?

Surely there aren't just naturally tough people outside the United States and Russia?

Roger Bacon · « **Reply #74 on:** February 25, 2014, 09:53:03 PM »