Author Topic: Being lied to  (Read 20413 times)

HowDog

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2006, 12:29:44 PM »
Bluto you have me confused with someone else, i am new hear.  Anyhow, there is still misleading ads out there on what that particular supp can do  for you and Shawn is right young kids today are not naive, they are saying fuck Cell tech and give me the sause (shit Arnold did it when he was 15, as stated in the book fantastic)

FREAKgeek

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2006, 12:47:53 PM »
after taking supplements for over 10 years now, I've realized they are good for one thing - to satisfy your psychological need to reassure your doing everything you can.  But unfortunately, they are, at least in my experiences, never justified.

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2006, 12:49:33 PM »
Shawn, do you feel the VYOTech line of products help people to reach their bodybuilding goals?

Bluto

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2006, 12:50:12 PM »
Bluto you have me confused with someone else, i am new hear.  Anyhow, there is still misleading ads out there on what that particular supp can do  for you and Shawn is right young kids today are not naive, they are saying f**k Cell tech and give me the sause (shit Arnold did it when he was 15, as stated in the book fantastic)

Well people are always gonna look for a quick fix, I think that's rooted much deeper than magazine ads. No kids wanna eat regular food and lift heavy weights for the next 5 years to build a solid foundation when they can pop a couple of pills that will do it in 5 weeks. (or so they will believe)
Z

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2006, 12:53:55 PM »
Shawn almost got it right, but he still works for a supplement company. javascript:void(0); I think it would be more accurate to say that in conjunction with the added effort and discipline to push and challenge yourself every workout, your body requires certain conditions to be maintained so that all functions of the body are optimum.  Intense weight training is perceived by the body as a form of stress and the body reacts by adapting to it.  That adaptation is what the supplement industry intends to  service with its various products.  As we all know from our own research into the matter, certain dietary elements are essential to muscle growth and recovery, as well as maintaining your energy levels to train intensely.  If you are putting in the effort to weigh and measure all your meals and make them yourself, challenge yourself in the gym and on the stair climber, and all the other requirements to do this thing right, then you would be out of your mind to not also have a post training protein shake with glutamine, a pretraining NO2 drink with some caffeine; use creatine and some kind of fat burner along with a strong anti-oxidant multi vitamin and mineral supplement.  Do big shredded bodybuilders under endorsement contracts with supplement companies, in addition to all the things Shawn mentioned, also use whey protein, glutamine, creatine, NO2, fat burners?  Absolutely!  Are those supplements solely responsible for their size and condition?  No one said they were.  Pros use supplements.  They might use a lot of other things, but they definitely use supplements to one degree or another.  When you're talking about the degree of condition and the quality of physique that is competitive today, it would be absolutely foolish to ignore good, basic, science.  Who's to say that XYZ brand whey protein didn't give the edge a competitor needed to beat out the guy next to him?  Now, that's not to say the supplement companies don't try and siphon your dollars out of your wallet when you're not looking.  GACIK?  If you had 50 bucks to spend on supplements for the month you going to buy GACIK or whey protein?  You're not going to see that stuff much longer.  The industry has pretty much defined its money makers, but that's not to say they won't try and scam you with something like GACIK.  So, it comes down to who's protein powder you going to use?  It doesn't matter.  Use the one that you like the best, that costs the least and seems to work for you.  That's what everyone does.  Magazine advertising does little more than maintain a presence for the various supplement companies.  We are all going to use Whey protein, creatine, fat burners, etc whether or not the companies who make them buy ad space in magazines and exploit Joe Blow bodybuilder.  Do any of us buy Splenda because of the commercial?  The ads int he magazines sell companies not supplements.  You're going to buy them anyway, it comes down to from whom.

jaejonna

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2006, 12:56:31 PM »
Wow ... You'd think that the Magazines and Pros were endorsing Bull Sh*t ...cause thats what Im gettin from this Thread......... Tell you the truth...All the things that make a person big arent even  able to be bought...

Train harder
Never miss Meals
Reduce Carb Intake
Up my Cario Out put
Take on better Training Partners
Take my Supplements(You can get from reg. food)
Prepare All my Meals
Challenge myself every work out
Work toward a Deadline or Contest Date
Clean Up my Diet
Use BBing Drugs(hmmm..isnt that breaking the law).....


L

HowDog

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2006, 01:02:55 PM »
Wow ... You'd think that the Magazines and Pros were endorsing Bull Sh*t ...cause thats what Im gettin from this Thread......... Tell you the truth...All the things that make a person big arent even  able to be bought...

Train harder
Never miss Meals
Reduce Carb Intake
Up my Cario Out put
Take on better Training Partners
Take my Supplements(You can get from reg. food)
Prepare All my Meals
Challenge myself every work out
Work toward a Deadline or Contest Date
Clean Up my Diet
Use BBing Drugs(hmmm..isnt that breaking the law).....



Yes sir it is and I can sleep good at night because I am not a CRIMINAL!!!

sarcasm

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2006, 01:03:39 PM »
Wow ... You'd think that the Magazines and Pros were endorsing Bull Sh*t ...cause thats what Im gettin from this Thread......... Tell you the truth...All the things that make a person big arent even  able to be bought...

Train harder
Never miss Meals
Reduce Carb Intake
Up my Cario Out put
Take on better Training Partners
Take my Supplements(You can get from reg. food)
Prepare All my Meals
Challenge myself every work out
Work toward a Deadline or Contest Date
Clean Up my Diet
Use BBing Drugs(hmmm..isnt that breaking the law).....



reducing carb intake makes a person big? ???
Jaejonna rows 125!!

bigdumbbell

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2006, 01:13:58 PM »
howdog, perhaps you misconstrue the products claims

HowDog

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2006, 01:19:28 PM »
howdog, perhaps you misconstrue the products claims

I just think most supp are a lot of bs.  Look pro drinks are good, energy poppers are weird and creatine to me is hype. 

tom joad

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2006, 01:27:46 PM »
I just think most supp are a lot of bs.  

yeah, you may be right, but anything that makes you shit blood for a week is good quality stuff.

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2006, 02:05:44 PM »
I tend to agree with Crusher and some of the other responses. Crusher asks a question..."If you had $50 per month to spend, would you but Gakic or a protein powder?". Where I disagree is that he assumes that it is common knowledge that protein powder is better. Among people who buy supplements regularly, yes, it is a good assumption. I don't know what the  % is, but it is very safe to assume that at least 50% of all supplement sales are from first time users. Therefore, these people are not "in the know", and , for lack of a better expression, are being misled by the advertising that these companies put out. The only reason why we see all these worthless products and all the hype that comes with it is because supplement companies are forever going after the first time user. They know that Mr. Uninformed will spend X amount before he realizes the stuff he is buying doesn't live up to it's claims. It's probably very safe to assume that there is some type of investigation going on right now as we speak into this very matter. The whole bodybuilding/supplement industry has been under an ever-growing microscope recently. I am in the legal field, and know for fact that there are laws that address this, they just have not been enforced. But with all the negativity recently, I think that is about to change. All it will take is one class-action lawsuit to bring it down. I would not be surprised if, in a few years, the laws surrounding the way these companies advertise, are strictly enforced.

Borracho

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2006, 02:08:20 PM »
Shawn almost got it right, but he still works for a supplement company. javascript:void(0); I think it would be more accurate to say that in conjunction with the added effort and discipline to push and challenge yourself every workout, your body requires certain conditions to be maintained so that all functions of the body are optimum.  Intense weight training is perceived by the body as a form of stress and the body reacts by adapting to it.  That adaptation is what the supplement industry intends to  service with its various products.  As we all know from our own research into the matter, certain dietary elements are essential to muscle growth and recovery, as well as maintaining your energy levels to train intensely.  If you are putting in the effort to weigh and measure all your meals and make them yourself, challenge yourself in the gym and on the stair climber, and all the other requirements to do this thing right, then you would be out of your mind to not also have a post training protein shake with glutamine, a pretraining NO2 drink with some caffeine; use creatine and some kind of fat burner along with a strong anti-oxidant multi vitamin and mineral supplement.  Do big shredded bodybuilders under endorsement contracts with supplement companies, in addition to all the things Shawn mentioned, also use whey protein, glutamine, creatine, NO2, fat burners?  Absolutely!  Are those supplements solely responsible for their size and condition?  No one said they were.  Pros use supplements.  They might use a lot of other things, but they definitely use supplements to one degree or another.  When you're talking about the degree of condition and the quality of physique that is competitive today, it would be absolutely foolish to ignore good, basic, science.  Who's to say that XYZ brand whey protein didn't give the edge a competitor needed to beat out the guy next to him?  Now, that's not to say the supplement companies don't try and siphon your dollars out of your wallet when you're not looking.  GACIK?  If you had 50 bucks to spend on supplements for the month you going to buy GACIK or whey protein?  You're not going to see that stuff much longer.  The industry has pretty much defined its money makers, but that's not to say they won't try and scam you with something like GACIK.  So, it comes down to who's protein powder you going to use?  It doesn't matter.  Use the one that you like the best, that costs the least and seems to work for you.  That's what everyone does.  Magazine advertising does little more than maintain a presence for the various supplement companies.  We are all going to use Whey protein, creatine, fat burners, etc whether or not the companies who make them buy ad space in magazines and exploit Joe Blow bodybuilder.  Do any of us buy Splenda because of the commercial?  The ads int he magazines sell companies not supplements.  You're going to buy them anyway, it comes down to from whom.

I tend to agree with Crusher and some of the other responses. Crusher asks a question..."If you had $50 per month to spend, would you but Gakic or a protein powder?". Where I disagree is that he assumes that it is common knowledge that protein powder is better. Among people who buy supplements regularly, yes, it is a good assumption. I don't know what the  % is, but it is very safe to assume that at least 50% of all supplement sales are from first time users. Therefore, these people are not "in the know", and , for lack of a better expression, are being misled by the advertising that these companies put out. The only reason why we see all these worthless products and all the hype that comes with it is because supplement companies are forever going after the first time user. They know that Mr. Uninformed will spend X amount before he realizes the stuff he is buying doesn't live up to it's claims. It's probably very safe to assume that there is some type of investigation going on right now as we speak into this very matter. The whole bodybuilding/supplement industry has been under an ever-growing microscope recently. I am in the legal field, and know for fact that there are laws that address this, they just have not been enforced. But with all the negativity recently, I think that is about to change. All it will take is one class-action lawsuit to bring it down. I would not be surprised if, in a few years, the laws surrounding the way these companies advertise, are strictly enforced.

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Sculpter

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2006, 03:02:36 PM »
I agree w/Shawn in that you would be surprised at how many young guys of today are using.For instance the gym I go to now is just idiotic in that regard.They weren't 15 yr olds, but young guys maybe ages 18-23 were using sustanon 250 & d-bol + a couple other things I can't think of off hand at the moment.Crazy thing is these guys weren't even doing this to compete!!It was just to impress the ladies or in a few cases the crybabies (they run up to you in a whiny voice asking how you got big) that every gym has that just wanted to be bigger.Craziness!!

Adam Empire

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2006, 07:34:19 PM »
Is Nike lying when they use Michael Jordan to advertise basketball shoes?  The shoes won't put you in the NBA?

 ???

Nike never used the "Before and After" shots either.  I get pissed when I see an add for a product where it states the person ADDED like 12 pounds of muscle AND LOST like 30 pounds of fat during their dieting phase.  I have dieted many times and have never put on muscle at that time.

They also use these before and after claims for all types of products - fat burners, creatine, protein, etc.  How the hell can they all have the same result?

Muscle tech has done this too often IMO, but many others do it too...
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Jr. Yates

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2006, 07:46:27 PM »
i love the weight gainer before and afters....one time there was one with mike matarazzo for wieder mass gainer and in the pic before he was 100% off season and in the after pic he was chizzled to the bone,tanned,shaved, and bigger. oh and the pics were like 8 weeks difference or something like that.
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HowDog

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2006, 07:52:55 PM »
Exactly, it should be in the next Penn& Teller Bullshit!!  and the pros know it, thats why no one is posting excempt Ray.

BeNaBoLiC

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2006, 07:55:09 PM »
the onylthing natural about these ads is all the hard earnd muscle thorugh proper training and plenty of BSN or muslce tech  products. ( dont ever mix products from these companies or your gains will suffer........) oh yeah and the weider training principles
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blaster

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2006, 09:18:21 PM »
Am I the only one who sees the 'results not typical' or 'these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA' at the bottom of the ad?

Richard2004

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2006, 09:19:24 PM »
The history of marketing weight-resistance exercisers/courses, health foods, and the “bodybuilding/fitness” industry "pitch", has been replete with DELIBERATE DECEPTION to try and fleece $$$ from the gullible general public, who are basically lazy and want instantaneous results without having to put forth the necessary effort!  And, this has been going on for over 100 years (at least)…

Here are just a few examples…

(1) The great physique champion/strongman Eugene Sandow (every bit as famous in his day as Arnold was in his prime, according to iron game historian Terry Todd) tried to sell, by mail-order to the public, little light-weight hand-squeeze dumbbells…claiming that he built his impressive muscular physique with just these worthless dumbbells…when actually he did heavy barbell/dumbbell bodybuilding exercises, instead!  And, this was in the early 1900’s.

(2) Charles Atlas in the 1930’s-1950’s, trying to market his “dynamic-tension” exercise system of muscle pushing/pulling/strictly-body-resistance exercises, when, in fact, he really built his impressive physique with barbell/dumbbell exercises instead!

(3) Bob Hoffman claiming in the 1960's that the isometric power racks he was trying to sell were the key to the remarkable progress of his Olympic weightlifters, when the real fact was that their progress was due to the advent of steroids (which was kept as a closely-guarded secret)!

(4) Joe Weider claiming he has been “Trainer of Champions since 1936” (duhh…he was only 13 years of age in 1936!??) and merely coining new names for old/existing exercises/exercise-systems, and then claiming that he had ‘invented them”!

(5) All of Hoffman’s and Weider’s false magazine claims regarding the benefits of their Hi-Protein and other bodybuilding “health food/related” product lines. Why, they were even cited by the FDA for false claims on their product labels!

(5) Of course, all of the current bloated pro. BB illegal-drug-using “chemical monsters/freaks” lying and claiming that they built their “mass-monster” physiques with the primary aid of the heavily-advertised food supplements, so vigorously marketed in the BB mags…when the real fact is, that their muscle-size gains are mainly due to the monstrous, dangerous, deadly, BB drug stacks they regularly ingest/inject.

(6) All of the “fitness and bodybuilding industry” CRAP “exercisers” that are hawked on TV that cost big $$$ (e.g. the Bowflex machines costing thousands of dollars) when JUST a simple plate loading barbell, a sturdy bench, and a squat rack (costing only a few hundred dollars, used) along with hard, intelligent, work could accomplish a lot MORE in really building ones’ strength and physique!  

(7) All of the dangerous-to-health diet pills, pushed in the media, to help you lose weight while lying on your lazy, fat, ass, instead of using intelligent vigorous exercise and diet as a much healthier, and safer, weight-loss alternative!

Why the “bodybuilding/fitness industry” marketing is no different than the "snake-oil" salesman of the late 1800’s, and is merely a continuation of this CON…i.e. just lies, lies, and more lies, to fleece $$$ from a gullible, ignorant, general public (always looking for a quick and effortless “fix”)!!  Wasn’t it P.T. Barnum who said over 100 years ago, “there is a SUCKER born every minute”?!

Adam Empire

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2006, 09:27:21 PM »
Exactly, it should be in the next Penn& Teller Bullshit!!  and the pros know it, thats why no one is posting excempt Ray.

It already was a topic if it - Season 1 I think...
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Cavalier22

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2006, 09:40:06 PM »
I remember when I first started getting serious and educated about training.  Actually realized how important nutrition was, and discilpine as well as all the other stuff besides training itself.  I made some gains and some naive guys i know, first thing they say when they see me "man are you on taht new _________ creatine", or are you juicing now?

I'm like actually no i dont use creatine anymore no drugs.  It just strikes me as kinda pathetic that they immediately attribute some improvement to a new supplement.  They are the kinda kids who will buy muscletech shit up the ass instead of eatin lots of chicken, eggs, etc and think they will get big.
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onlyme

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2006, 11:59:16 PM »
The only problem I see with having Shawn being a spokesperson for VYOTech is that he can't honestly say they helped him in anyway at all.  Since he has been out for awhile.  I thnk it's weird having a guy push their products when they have never honestly used them at all and it's so apparent because of the time frame.  Like Ronnie pushing BSN.  ANy smart person would know BSN products have had NO bearing on Ronnies physical appearance or competition history.  But, at least he is comepting still and can say he takes them now and maybe they help him take healthier shits.

bigdumbbell

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2006, 04:56:21 AM »
The only problem I see with having Shawn being a spokesperson for VYOTech is that he can't honestly say they helped him in anyway at all.  Since he has been out for awhile.  I thnk it's weird having a guy push their products when they have never honestly used them at all and it's so apparent because of the time frame.  Like Ronnie pushing BSN.  ANy smart person would know BSN products have had NO bearing on Ronnies physical appearance or competition history.  But, at least he is comepting still and can say he takes them now and maybe they help him take healthier shits.

ronnie looks like he aint had a healthy shit in a long time

buffbodz

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Re: Being lied to
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2006, 07:20:39 AM »
is howdog howie?

E

Me thinks you're on to something.
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