Author Topic: Americans hate Rand Paul’s libertarianism. They just don’t know it yet.  (Read 1794 times)

OzmO

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http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/03/rand-paul-america-hates-liberterians-104858.html?hp=pm_1

Rand Paul’s admirers, and more than a few of his enemies, believe the country is having a “libertarian moment”—from Tea Partiers in Topeka to Silicon Valley techno-separatists who dream of going Galt. We’ve had these moments before, but each time they come and go without the elevation of a libertarian to high office or the advancement of libertarian ideas. There’s a reason for that, and Sen. Rand Paul is just learning why now.

The problem for libertarian politicians is that Americans hate libertarianism. They like Social Security and minimum-wage hikes, they are still somewhat wary of free tradeand they resent that the world is full of conniving and frequently swarthy foreigners who are scheming to provide us with goods and services in exchange for little green pieces of paper. Four times as many Americans support pulling out of NAFTA or renegotiating it as support staying in. Paul, on the other hand, wants to make the whole world a free-trade zone: He scores 100 percent on the libertarian Cato Institute’s free-trade index. Libertarian ideas might appeal to voters on principle—in a poll last fall, 22 percent of Americans said they identify as or “lean” libertarian. But in the voting booth Americans don’t have principles; they have interests.

Nearly every election cycle, a poll comes out suggesting that many Americans, and a big chunk of swing voters, think of themselves as “fiscally conservative but socially liberal,” and therefore possibly open to libertarian candidates who want to police the deficit but not your sex life. These voters are the political equivalent of people who describe themselves as “spiritual but not religious.” It’s basically an empty formulation to avoid picking a side or a fight; it’s shallow, but it sounds good. The problem, at least for Rand Paul, is that “fiscally conservative but socially liberal” is not a long way of saying “libertarian.” Paul’s libertarianism is intended to offer a little something for everybody, on the left and right—spending cuts for the Republican base, legal relief for potheads, a presidential pat on the head for gay people. But if he gets serious about substantive reform along these lines, his libertarianism is instead going to offer something to outrage everybody.


Start with the so-called fiscal conservatives. Spend a few hours listening to second-tier talk radio or engage with some real-life American voters for a few hours, and you will discover that there is practically no market for fiscal conservatism. Ask them how they think we should go about balancing the budget, for instance, and they’ll inevitably respond: by cutting foreign aid, which American voters believe makes up about a third of the federal budget. Rand Paul’s repeated calls to end foreign aid—to Egypt, to countries where the American flag is burned, to anybody else he can think of—is a reliable applause line for the gentleman from Kentucky; giving away aid is just one more of those foreign entanglements George Washington warned us about. But what many of his admirers do not understand is that his opposition to foreign aid isn’t principally fiscal but ideological: Foreign aid’s portion of the budget is actually miniscule—closer to 1 percent. Even if we cut it all, the savings would be trivial.

When it comes to balancing the budget, Paul is more likely to cut off aid to your mom. That’s where the money is. We spend almost all of the federal budget on a handful of programs: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and defense. So any plausible, politically sustainable campaign to impose some sanity on America’s national finances is going to mean reforming—i.e., cutting—all of those. How unpopular is that? Solid majorities of Americans oppose cutting Social Security and Medicare benefits and raising taxes to pay for them, even though a larger majority also believes that the cost of those programs will create economic problems. The number of people who think we spend too much on the military hasn’t topped the 50-percent mark since the Vietnam War. Think about George W. Bush’s attempt at Social Security reform, which left him the loneliest man in Washington. Or consider that in 2012, fiscal conservative wonk-emperor Paul Ryan ran for the vice presidency on a campaign that blasted the Obama administration for making Medicare cuts. Which is to say, even the man in Washington most associated with the words “fiscal conservative” knows better than to run as one. Fiscal conservatives might applaud Rand Paul when he talks about getting Afghan President Hamid Karzai off of welfare, but they’ll scream if he comes within five miles of their Social Security checks. Any candidate who’s serious about fiscal reform is going to be a hard sell in 2016—or any other year.

If the fair-weather fiscal conservatives don’t like Rand Paul, the phony social liberals are going to loathe him. Here’s where the English language fails us: “Liberal” and “libertarian” come from the same linguistic root, meaning “liberty,” and many libertarians will describe themselves among friends as “classical liberals”—political heirs to the Whigs and the Manchester free-traders. But “socially liberal” and “socially libertarian” today mean almost precisely opposite things. If there is one thing our “social liberals” hate, it is liberty. In their view, you’re free to do as they please.

JOHN MATRIX

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Politico is a hard Left source. They occassionally post a token 'opinion' peice supporting a republican, but everything from there is projected thru a blue prism.

dario73

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Why don't they pen a piece titled "Hillary Clinton: The most worthless Secretary of State to ever contemplate running for President"?

GOP hasn't even selected a candidate and the media is already paving the way to the white house for another overrated politician.

OzmO

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No doubt the site is slanted left.

But is Paul really gonna get it done?

Doubt it.

Skip8282

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No doubt the site is slanted left.

But is Paul really gonna get it done?

Doubt it.



I think the article is right.  Neither the left nor the right care much for the libertarian point of view.

But, Paul is the only one talking about things like privacy and from all I've seen, he's one of the best potential candidates.


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libs will love rand paul.  Dude supports amnesty. 

Shockwave

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I think the article is right.  Neither the left nor the right care much for the libertarian point of view.

But, Paul is the only one talking about things like privacy and from all I've seen, he's one of the best potential candidates.


The problem is that everyone is for cutting spending and/or for letting others live, UNTIL it effects them.

If it meant everyone being a little harder off but bringing the budget down, they'll ALWAYS opt to keep shit fucked up and pay less now, even if it means they'll have to pay 100% taxes in 2 years... they'll just convince themselves that its unfair and others should be footing the bill not them because they can barely live.

Idealism ends at the paycheck. Anyone with half a brain understands we need to throttle back all aspects of spending, including social benefits. but no one is willing to give up any of their benefits. They feel entitled to that money, and once they have it, good luck taking it from them. Pauls views are the most sane currently but that won't matter when people realize that it's going to hit their bottom line. No one gives a shit about the state of the nation if they can't buy their Xbox 1 this year. And as they said, social liberals aren't libertarians.. they want freedoms ON THEIR TERMS, they only want the people they deem important to have freedom and everyone else should be secondary to them and their priorities.


Its a fucked up world we live in today. People, as Uberman always said, are unreasonable animals at their core.

George Whorewell

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 ::)

The problem is the entrenched insiders of both parties.

Democrats want masses of poor, useless, government dependent low lifes that breed incessantly and plop out more Democratic voters. This goes for blacks, latins, etc. The Democrats and leftist ideals as a whole, are completely dependent on misery and human suffering. If everyone worked hard and was self sufficent, how could the left possibly stay in power anywhere? Even locally? Without the masses of victmhood there would be no Democratic party bc they would have no reason to exist.  

GOP establishment types are just corrupt bureaucratic buffoons who will do anything to maintain big government and their favored positions in the party--- The Country be damned.

Libertarian beliefs (though I am somewhere in between conservative and libertarian) are universally disliked by the two insider parties because it stands as a credible threat to the entire "2 Party Paradigm"  Nuff said.  

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Not going to read all of that now and am just going by the title of the thread. But in case politico didn't hear about it. He was welcomed at Berzerkly (Berkley) a VERY liberal University.

OzmO

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http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/20/can-rand-reach-young-progressives/    
If only Nixon can go to China, then maybe only Rand can go to Berkeley. (Or, at least, maybe only Rand can get a standing ovation at Berkeley.)

Speaking of ovations, I’ve got to applaud him for being willing to go into hostile territory.

When it comes to winning nontraditional Republican votes, not showing up has been the self-fulfilling cardinal sin that keeps on giving.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/20/can-rand-reach-young-progressives/#ixzz2whiChKe5
So kudos to Rand for doing just that.

But, having said that, I want to caution everyone that these profiles in courage wouldn’t matter much in a heated General Election, where Hillary Clinton’s team (and outside groups) would surely paint Paul as an evil, racist, villain. It might not be enough to cost him the election, but it would certainly drive a wedge between Paul and the students he was wooing with his speech.

Good luck finding any Berkeley Students For Paul, come 2016. Hillary the warmonger would still do better at Berkeley than Rand the peacenik. That’s just how it is. Partisan habits are hard to break.

This is not to discourage such outreach. In fact, failing to meet unrealistic or overly ambitious expectations is the surest way to discourage folks from trying.

And I’m not picking on Rand, either. This principle works against any Republican trying to change the electorate. Let’s take Gov. Susana Martinez or Sen. Marco Rubio. Their ability to speak Spanish is hugely important, but it wouldn’t be a silver bullet guaranteeing the Hispanic vote, either. At least, not in 2016.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/20/can-rand-reach-young-progressives/#ixzz2whhydFQD

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in 2008 and 2012, BOTH candidates promised to trim fat/pork/spending.  NEITHER promised HOW they'd do it.

Because it's always gonna be a tight race, and the moment you say "i'm going to cut 20% off this obscure industry or 15% off this dying industry" , your opponent suddenly steals 1 or 2% of the vote due to the people that actually WORK in those industries voting JUST TO KEEP THEIR JOBS.

Candidates like RPaul - IF they tell you specifically what they'll cut - will lose some voters fast.  And their gain?  Well, they probably already HAVE the voters that actually givea shit about cutting national spending.  So I'm not sure it helps.  Then, once he's in office, he wants to keep his job... so does he ever actually make those cuts?  Does anyone?

muscleman-2013

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Pretty garbage article. These cuts are an issue facing all politicians...  eventually.
Ψ

OzmO

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The point of the article isn't about the cuts.  The point of the article is that Rand unelectable.

Shockwave

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http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/20/can-rand-reach-young-progressives/    
If only Nixon can go to China, then maybe only Rand can go to Berkeley. (Or, at least, maybe only Rand can get a standing ovation at Berkeley.)

Speaking of ovations, I’ve got to applaud him for being willing to go into hostile territory.

When it comes to winning nontraditional Republican votes, not showing up has been the self-fulfilling cardinal sin that keeps on giving.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/20/can-rand-reach-young-progressives/#ixzz2whiChKe5
So kudos to Rand for doing just that.

But, having said that, I want to caution everyone that these profiles in courage wouldn’t matter much in a heated General Election, where Hillary Clinton’s team (and outside groups) would surely paint Paul as an evil, racist, villain. It might not be enough to cost him the election, but it would certainly drive a wedge between Paul and the students he was wooing with his speech.

Good luck finding any Berkeley Students For Paul, come 2016. Hillary the warmonger would still do better at Berkeley than Rand the peacenik. That’s just how it is. Partisan habits are hard to break.

This is not to discourage such outreach. In fact, failing to meet unrealistic or overly ambitious expectations is the surest way to discourage folks from trying.

And I’m not picking on Rand, either. This principle works against any Republican trying to change the electorate. Let’s take Gov. Susana Martinez or Sen. Marco Rubio. Their ability to speak Spanish is hugely important, but it wouldn’t be a silver bullet guaranteeing the Hispanic vote, either. At least, not in 2016.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/20/can-rand-reach-young-progressives/#ixzz2whhydFQD
Sounds more like "Theres only 2 parties and no one can change that" type of frightened bullshit that people fearing change spout... although it's probably true.

Ron Jeremy

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Always liked libertarian social ideas. Ron Paul had a decent following on both political sides.

240 is Back

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The point of the article isn't about the cuts.  The point of the article is that Rand unelectable.

sounds like hater talk to me. 

I dont need to look thru all those 'facts' and that 'data' stuff to know a hater when i see it.

Skip8282

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The problem is that everyone is for cutting spending and/or for letting others live, UNTIL it effects them.

If it meant everyone being a little harder off but bringing the budget down, they'll ALWAYS opt to keep shit fucked up and pay less now, even if it means they'll have to pay 100% taxes in 2 years... they'll just convince themselves that its unfair and others should be footing the bill not them because they can barely live.

Idealism ends at the paycheck. Anyone with half a brain understands we need to throttle back all aspects of spending, including social benefits. but no one is willing to give up any of their benefits. They feel entitled to that money, and once they have it, good luck taking it from them. Pauls views are the most sane currently but that won't matter when people realize that it's going to hit their bottom line. No one gives a shit about the state of the nation if they can't buy their Xbox 1 this year. And as they said, social liberals aren't libertarians.. they want freedoms ON THEIR TERMS, they only want the people they deem important to have freedom and everyone else should be secondary to them and their priorities.


Its a fucked up world we live in today. People, as Uberman always said, are unreasonable animals at their core.



True, and we see that in polling data all the time.  People want less spending, but when pressed on specific programs, they don't want those programs cut.


StreetSoldier4U

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Hes delusional.   The Hispanic immigrants flooding into the country from Mexico and other parts of South America have consistently been polled as being in favor of more government

Shockwave

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Hes delusional.   The Hispanic immigrants flooding into the country from Mexico and other parts of South America have consistently been polled as being in favor of more government
Of course they are, because more government = more programs = more money for them to do nothing.

I have an illegal that works at my work. He's been here for 20!!! fucking years, and can't speak comprehensible english. He's always asking everyone at the shop who's on any sort of government program how he too, can get free government money.

When he found out I was Native and got a medical card with 2k on it yearly, he hounded me for a week how he could get "free government money for being native". "Can I marry native and get native money?" I told him no, he'd have to be fucking Native and that it wasn't government money, it was revenue from our casino's. He didn't understand and just kept asking about free government money. I tried to explain to him that it wasn't free, that everyone else here payed for that, and he said "No, is free government money". Dude is fucking dumb.

He's been kicked out of every department they've tried to put him in. He can't learn shit. But they don't want to fire him because they're afraid he'll sue them. (Because he's asked employees if he could sue his other company over stupid shit to get "free money".)

He already draws disability on 2 different SS cards, both fake.

He gets into all our toolboxes and takes our tools. More than once we've found old shop supplies in his lunchbox on his way out of the door (ones no one uses anymore, but no one gave him permission to take them home). He takes all kinds of supplies out of the emergency aid kits home. I told him to stay the fuck outta my tool box and he says "I need tools to do work. You have lots of tools. I need." I told him if I ever caught him in my toolbox again I was going to chop his fucking hands off.

And this motherf*cker has a brand new Acura and a brand new Lexus. Paid off. He's making that much money, but all he cares about it getting "more free government money".

He refuses to send his daughter to college because "She won't pay me back". No shit sherlock, she's your fucking daughter.

He tried to get an employee to give him a dog that he had sold for 1500... the owner couldn't take care of the dog so he gave it back,.... this piece of shit says "you give to me. I need money. I sell". Art says "No, Thats MY dog, I want him to go to a good home I'm not just goign to give you my 1500 dollar dog".

His response? "You already made money once. I need money. You give to me. It not fair you get make money twice off dog" Art told him "I don't give a fuck what you think is fair you tax dodging piece of shit, you want to my fucking dog you can pay my 1500 like everyone else".

"That not fair! I dont like you!"

And after all the shit he gets for free, all the "free government money", he'll rail about how shitty our country is, how he'll never buy american or pay taxes.... about how he's hording all his money to take back to Mexico to live like Kings... about how we're all idiots that make shitty products and how much better it is in Mexico.... Finally another vet told him "Look you piece of shit, fucking leave. Go back to Mexico. We don't want you. If you keep bragging to me about how you're fucking this country over and fucking the taxpayers over, I'm going to fucking kill you and leave your body in the streets."

These are the kind of people were letting in. I know a lot work hard, but more of them are these types, looking for a easy ride, that couldn't hack it in their home country. And he's already sworn up and down he'll vote democrat for life "because they give me free government money".

He's not the only one like this, either. Every job I've worked in the last 10 years they've had at least one of these idiots in the lowest levels... and they always say the same thing. You dumb fucking Americans just give us money and let us fuck you over, and we're going to keep doing it, and then leave and laugh while we live like kings in Mexico with YOUR money.

240 is Back

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Hes delusional.   The Hispanic immigrants flooding into the country from Mexico and other parts of South America have consistently been polled as being in favor of more government

Rand Paul, like Rubio, Palin, and other libs, embraces Amnesty.

I think he doesn't want to be a sideshow like his dad, so he's selling out juuuuuust a little bit to win the POTUS job.

George Whorewell

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Of course they are, because more government = more programs = more money for them to do nothing.

I have an illegal that works at my work. He's been here for 20!!! fucking years, and can't speak comprehensible english. He's always asking everyone at the shop who's on any sort of government program how he too, can get free government money.

When he found out I was Native and got a medical card with 2k on it yearly, he hounded me for a week how he could get "free government money for being native". "Can I marry native and get native money?" I told him no, he'd have to be fucking Native and that it wasn't government money, it was revenue from our casino's. He didn't understand and just kept asking about free government money. I tried to explain to him that it wasn't free, that everyone else here payed for that, and he said "No, is free government money". Dude is fucking dumb.

He's been kicked out of every department they've tried to put him in. He can't learn shit. But they don't want to fire him because they're afraid he'll sue them. (Because he's asked employees if he could sue his other company over stupid shit to get "free money".)

He already draws disability on 2 different SS cards, both fake.

He gets into all our toolboxes and takes our tools. More than once we've found old shop supplies in his lunchbox on his way out of the door (ones no one uses anymore, but no one gave him permission to take them home). He takes all kinds of supplies out of the emergency aid kits home. I told him to stay the fuck outta my tool box and he says "I need tools to do work. You have lots of tools. I need." I told him if I ever caught him in my toolbox again I was going to chop his fucking hands off.

And this motherf*cker has a brand new Acura and a brand new Lexus. Paid off. He's making that much money, but all he cares about it getting "more free government money".

He refuses to send his daughter to college because "She won't pay me back". No shit sherlock, she's your fucking daughter.

He tried to get an employee to give him a dog that he had sold for 1500... the owner couldn't take care of the dog so he gave it back,.... this piece of shit says "you give to me. I need money. I sell". Art says "No, Thats MY dog, I want him to go to a good home I'm not just goign to give you my 1500 dollar dog".

His response? "You already made money once. I need money. You give to me. It not fair you get make money twice off dog" Art told him "I don't give a fuck what you think is fair you tax dodging piece of shit, you want to my fucking dog you can pay my 1500 like everyone else".

"That not fair! I dont like you!"

And after all the shit he gets for free, all the "free government money", he'll rail about how shitty our country is, how he'll never buy american or pay taxes.... about how he's hording all his money to take back to Mexico to live like Kings... about how we're all idiots that make shitty products and how much better it is in Mexico.... Finally another vet told him "Look you piece of shit, fucking leave. Go back to Mexico. We don't want you. If you keep bragging to me about how you're fucking this country over and fucking the taxpayers over, I'm going to fucking kill you and leave your body in the streets."

These are the kind of people were letting in. I know a lot work hard, but more of them are these types, looking for a easy ride, that couldn't hack it in their home country. And he's already sworn up and down he'll vote democrat for life "because they give me free government money".

He's not the only one like this, either. Every job I've worked in the last 10 years they've had at least one of these idiots in the lowest levels... and they always say the same thing. You dumb fucking Americans just give us money and let us fuck you over, and we're going to keep doing it, and then leave and laugh while we live like kings in Mexico with YOUR money.

Racist and hispaniphobic post reported.

StreetSoldier4U

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Rand Paul, like Rubio, Palin, and other libs, embraces Amnesty.

I think he doesn't want to be a sideshow like his dad, so he's selling out juuuuuust a little bit to win the POTUS job.

He's foolish to believe that supporting amnesty is going to sway a single Hispanic voter. 

240 is Back

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He's foolish to believe that supporting amnesty is going to sway a single Hispanic voter. 

a lot of the GOP decided, immediately after the 2012 election, to embrace amnesty.

Here's a long but really good read by a VERY conservative writer...
http://www.eagleforum.org/publications/psr/apr13.html

Hannity rang the bell right after the election, saying he was SHIFTING on amnesty.  And right after that, many of the GOP really SHIFTED as well.  Cruz and others are really in the minority now.   

JUST WAIT until you hear Rand Paul or another "conservative" asking Cruz how he can be so "heartless" by insisting that illegal aliens not be granted a right to stay.   LMAO....