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Author Topic: IC / US Title..Where are you  (Read 964 times)
littleguns
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« on: March 22, 2014, 02:54:08 AM »

 I was hoping the IC title would elevate Big E but hell when is the last time this was defended??

Back in the day these title held more prestige than the Championship. This was the working man's title and generally elevated the holder to the next level.

Brett, Shawn, Warrior, Savage etc...

F'in joke!
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Montague
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2014, 05:48:34 AM »

Excellent point. Historically, the best mat workers were given the I-C strap, which often served as a catalyst to bigger programs, such as a run with the big belt, or at least working a feud with the main champ.

Titles today mean very little. The prestige once associated with them has greatly diminished, but then again, so has overall prestige of the genre. Professional wrestling isn't "special" the way it once was, and I don't expect that to change in the foreseeable future.
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littleguns
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 06:20:41 AM »

Monty - so what's your 2 cents on Curtis Axel?

Is he bad because they threw him in too quick i:e bad booking or is he just plain bad?
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Montague
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2014, 06:47:57 AM »

Monty - so what's your 2 cents on Curtis Axel?

Is he bad because they threw him in too quick i:e bad booking or is he just plain bad?


I honestly haven't been following the shows lately. I really have zero interest in the current product.
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Hulkster
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2014, 07:13:10 PM »

Quote
Historically, the best mat workers were given the I-C strap

yes, especially the Warrior

glad you have come around to realize his in ring greatness and move set Wink


* oxq3eiqbesc19zw9.jpg (48.55 KB, 580x434 - viewed 73 times.)
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2014, 07:22:56 PM »

There were exceptions like Honky Tonk, and Ultimate Jim. Fortunately, guys like Hennig and Bret were able to restore the original prestige to the belt after that disastrous period.

Savage,
Steamboat,
Valentine,
Shawn,
Santana,
Bret,
Perfect...

The others were the exceptions, not the rule. I didn't even like them putting the strap on Piper.
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Montague
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2014, 07:24:24 PM »

yes, especially the Warrior

glad you have come around to realize his in ring greatness entrance and move set Wink


Fixed.
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littleguns
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 04:54:42 AM »

Let's not forget the meatball sub eating.....Don Muraco!
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Montague
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2014, 07:32:44 AM »

Let's not forget the meatball sub eating.....Don Muraco!


Don was a fantastic worker! I think he was more effective as a heel even though he got good pops as a face. He was good on the mic, had a great character, a powerful build, and good ring mechanics and psychology.

Although I like to rib Hulkster here, even UW was a good worker. He was a limited worker, but still good in the sense that he gave fans of that era heat they wanted. He was going to get the big belt, so the I-C title was the natural progression.

Even HTM was a good worker. Again, his ring work was severely limited, but he drew excellent heat with fans, and that sold a lot of tickets. Bringing him into the territory paid off, and I honestly think Vince was surprised at how over Wayne Ferris got.

At the end of the day, it's all about business. All that matters is how many tickets, buy rates, and merchandise the talent sells to the current demographic.
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Hulkster
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2014, 07:44:53 AM »

yes. I was at Maple Leaf Gardens in 1988 2 days before summerslam and I saw Warrior vs Honkey (a prelude of what was to come at ss)

warrior was so over and the crowd loved to hate honkey.

Warrior gorilla pressed honkey and Jimmy Hart came in and hit him with the Megaphone and honkey was DQ'd/

Warrior took the IC belt and posed with it all over the ring as if he won it.

it was awesome. I was 10 years old hahaha
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2014, 08:05:41 AM »

yes. I was at Maple Leaf Gardens in 1988 2 days before summerslam and I saw Warrior vs Honkey (a prelude of what was to come at ss)

warrior was so over and the crowd loved to hate honkey.

Warrior gorilla pressed honkey and Jimmy Hart came in and hit him with the Megaphone and honkey was DQ'd/

Warrior took the IC belt and posed with it all over the ring as if he won it.

it was awesome. I was 10 years old hahaha


It would have been cool to see UW evolve. Had he and the company agreed on the business end, and he further developed his skills, he could have been a real force in the long run!
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littleguns
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« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2014, 08:49:07 AM »

But did Warrior lose the HW Belt a Royal Rumble to Slaughter because of problems with Vince or was it because he just didn't have the drawing power like Hogan?

Let's not forget Rude for the IC
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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2014, 09:15:53 AM »

But did Warrior lose the HW Belt a Royal Rumble to Slaughter because of problems with Vince or was it because he just didn't have the drawing power like Hogan?

Let's not forget Rude for the IC


I think that answer may depend on who you ask. From various interviews, I've heard both reasons cited.

Regardless, Slaughter was a transitional champion, serving as the intermediate step in getting the belt back on Hogan.
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MusselFreek
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2014, 09:24:11 AM »

Did Ambrose ever defend his belt?? This dude always with the shield...
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2014, 06:01:06 PM »

one thing I always found odd was people often talk about drawing issues with warrior as world champ, let if you look at the Royal Rumble 91 where he lost the belt he got the biggest pops of the night and the biggest ovations.

weird.
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2014, 06:38:28 PM »

one thing I always found odd was people often talk about drawing issues with warrior as world champ, let if you look at the Royal Rumble 91 where he lost the belt he got the biggest pops of the night and the biggest ovations.

weird.


I think the "drawing issue" was a reason the office offered to publicly justify letting Hellwig go. It sounded more substantial than simply not wanting to meet his contractual demands.

However, no one can deny Jim's WCW flop. And, he had a lot of creative control over that. That Halloween Havoc match has got to be one of the worst matches ever in the history of the business; although, my favorite botch was Hogan almost burning himself with the flash paper. Classic! Cool

But honestly, the smoke & mirror vignettes Jim wrote with Beefcake being kidnapped and Hogan being the only one who could see UW...WTF??
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Thin Lizzy
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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2014, 08:37:18 PM »

Monty - so what's your 2 cents on Curtis Axel?

Is he bad because they threw him in too quick i:e bad booking or is he just plain bad?

He doesn't seem to have "It!"
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2014, 08:49:11 PM »

I'm extrapolating a bit, but does anyone see any similarities between Hennig Jr. & David Flair?
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Thin Lizzy
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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2014, 08:56:40 PM »


I honestly haven't been following the shows lately. I really have zero interest in the current product.


IMO, the product will have to change to accommodate the "Smart Marks," us.

I heard Disco Inferno on a Podcast say that the casual wrestling fan no longer exists. It's just the kids and the Smart Marks. He's right. In fact, there are hardly any casual fans of anything, anymore.

When Raw started, there was a limited number of cable channels and no internet. Now, there's so much variety that people can exclusively watch stuff they're actually in to. The entertainment void that wrestling used to fill, has been filled by more targeted entertainment: a cooking channel, a car channel, a fishing channel, etc.

So, either WWE caters to the hardcore fans, or it goes down the drain.



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Thin Lizzy
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2014, 09:01:23 PM »

I'm extrapolating a bit, but does anyone see any similarities between Hennig Jr. & David Flair?

Hennig has enough size and athletic ability. His problem is charisma.

David Flair was lacking in every area.

As an aside, have you seen Flair's daughter? She's very raw, but has amazing gymnastic ability, and a good look. In a couple years, she could be a star.
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Montague
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2014, 05:42:53 AM »

Hennig has enough size and athletic ability. His problem is charisma.

David Flair was lacking in every area.

As an aside, have you seen Flair's daughter? She's very raw, but has amazing gymnastic ability, and a good look. In a couple years, she could be a star.


Unfortunately, charisma is something he'll need to develop on his own.

I only saw a picture of Flair's daughter. She's very attractive, but I haven't seen how she moves.
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« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2014, 05:10:18 PM »

Monty - so what's your 2 cents on Curtis Axel?

Is he bad because they threw him in too quick i:e bad booking or is he just plain bad?
I'll answer bro. Yes...imo..they threw him a bone way to quick. Joe Henning is good...but not his father. Curt did multiple independent shows plus a stint in the AWA (while it still had a good roster) before having a big push plus a run with Hogan.
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Karl Kox
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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2014, 06:32:16 PM »

I have expressed how aggravating it is that the IC belt doesn't mean anything anymore.  This was my favorite title as a kid.
The problem is they use the belt to try and get guys over. You can't do that if the titles arnt taken seriously anymore.
They need to unify te IC/US title and put it on a hot baby face like Roman Reigns or Cesaro. Have them have knock out matches defending it and have guys work to get title matches. Let baby faces wrestle each other for it.
And for god sakes let the damn thing be defended at the PPVs. I don't think is even being defended at WM.

That's my 2 cents.
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Karl Kox
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« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2014, 06:35:40 PM »

Monty - so what's your 2 cents on Curtis Axel?

Is he bad because they threw him in too quick i:e bad booking or is he just plain bad?

Too quick. He should have been brought in as a face.   He's not great though.
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Melkor
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« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2014, 06:43:30 PM »

Yeah the IC title match used to be the best "wrestling match" on a PPV card. Remember it was actually used in feuds? Guys who were in line for the big push used to work a program for the IC, generally resulting in trading wins in some great matches? When was the last time there was an angle revolving around the IC title?

Remember HBK/Razor, Bret/Mr Perfect, Rock/Triple H in '98 (they had a great run fighting for that belt, better in many ways than their feud for the world title), Macho Man/Steamboat, Jericho/Benoit and others. The IC title meant more back in the day than the world heavyweight championship did in the last few years before it was unified recently.
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