"Grazing" for bodybuilder eating... does it work?

[Hulkotron]

The bigger a bodybuilder is,the more protein he`ll need and be able to absorb if he`s training balls out.

The successful bodybuilder always trains with his balls out.

[_aj_]

The successful bodybuilder always trains with his balls out.

 

[wild willie]

This is a very difficult thing to prove........you have Nasser and Ronnie eating ultra high protein.......you have yates eating moderately high protein......you have mentzer and padilla eating 60-70 grams of protein and boyer coe eating 150-200 grams protein......my point is.....how do we know what is right or wrong???


many successful bbers with totally different dieting philosophies.......I guess we must go through trial and error to figure out what works best for us individually.

[dustin]

If tons of huge people can get by on little protein, I think that should be proof enough. Steroids and other PEDs increase protein synthesis, so serious bodybuilders who are juiced up would be able to get by with even less.

As well, people don't create pounds of muscles each night when their body slowly repairs damaged muscle tissues. We're talking about microscopic amounts. This is why you don't need to eat pounds of protein each day. It's probably in the milligram or microgram range anyway. I don't see why people kill their kidneys with a half pound of protein a day. Fucking stupid if you think about it. Protein is so expensive. Instead of focusing on a shitload, focus on a smaller amount of higher quality protein.

[Papper]

If tons of huge people can get by on little protein, I think that should be proof enough. Steroids and other PEDs increase protein synthesis, so serious bodybuilders who are juiced up would be able to get by with even less.

As well, people don't create pounds of muscles each night when their body slowly repairs damaged muscle tissues. We're talking about microscopic amounts. This is why you don't need to eat pounds of protein each day. It's probably in the milligram or microgram range anyway. I don't see why people kill their kidneys with a half pound of protein a day. Fucking stupid if you think about it. Protein is so expensive. Instead of focusing on a shitload, focus on a smaller amount of higher quality protein.

It's hard not to eat enough protein..

Quality is another story

[DroppingPlates]

I would prob feel like shit when I consume 4400 kcals in only 3 meals.

[falco]

I think Serge Nubret as well.

Serge was natural also...

[falco]

When you think about it, during starvation the body still needs energy and uses fat stores as a source.

I guess

[nasum]

Your body is highly effective at storing calories so for the purposes of human bodily functioning 1 large meal over 24 hrs is effectively the same as 6 smaller ones.

This shouldn't surprise anyone, it costs barely any calories to digest food as all the work is enzymatic. Gut peristalsis never stops anyway or you would develop fatal bowl obstruction. Muscles and the brain are the only things in the body that burn shitloads of calories.

The reason IF works is because, no shit, you're not eating 75% of the time so you're eating less.

The primary reason for increased frequency of meals is attempting to increase muscle protein synthesis by saturating the body with available amino acids. I.E. trying to increase muscle mass.

[no one]

my .02

we arent farmers. genetically we are hunter/ gatherers. we'd go thru days with no food, make a kill, drag it back to camp and feed everyone and repeat the cycle.

as we evolved so did the 'way' we ate. but it is not optimal for losing weight.

when dieitng, eating 5-6 times a day might actually be counter productive. every time you eat your body releases insulin. insulin inhibits a function of the body that is lypolisis- the ability to burn fat essentially.

given that then, eating once or twice a day, with fasted periods, makes sense to me for weight loss, and working with your body.

i also used to subscribe to the 'eat when hungry' mantra too as snx does, but i found several things will trigger hunger than actually being hungry, thus causing you to take in cals your body really didnt need or want.

as for ther needing protein 5-6 times a day- what happens if you only eat it twice a day? is it less effective for muscle growth? does it not get partitioned effectively? if the body needs it it will not get wasted but be used to hypertrophy and muscle repir regardless of how much you eat or when.

i've made the best gains of my life by doing what we are not supposed to do. because we all do what we are 'supposed to do' out of not knowing anythign different. its just the way its done.

but what it 'just the way its done' is wrong- what if theres something better?

[no one]

btw my post has nothing to do with the system of eating that gal and i came up with.

even though it prolly is the most best fucking thing to ever happen to dieting ever since it is a platform and way of eating that can be tailormade for your own specific needs and requirements it is not the be all end all in 'dieting'

in fact i dont think there is a be all end all in dieting. i dont think there is 'a way'. i think everyone is individual- what works for me wont work for you, so why expect someone to suffer thru something you might find a breeze?

i think you have to find what works for you. think about it- in 7 decades of bbing why hasnt the definitive diet that guarantees results for everyone been created yet? cause the individual determines its results. he might find a diet you breeze thru boring, too much of a challenge, not flexible enough, too flexible etc and if you cant stay on it it isnt going to work.

thats why i like threads like this. there is no one right answer. but 800 poeple have looked at this thread and read the posts and if my above post causes someone to just stop and *think* about why they eat the way they do, why they eat the food they do, why they just follow a diet cause its just what you do, then i have done my job.

cause any diet will work. its finding the one that works for you, and more often or not you have to create it. so get off your asses and start doing it cause your sure as fuck not going to find the answer on a message board. what you'll find is the information you need to create your own. and if you dont take the time or energy to do so, then you'll always fail and always be fat and always looking for the next big thing that will never come along.


this guy does this. this guy does that. so fucking what. who cares what they do. get back to me with how it worked for you. not so good right or else you wouldnt be looking for the 'answer' sitting there at your computer with that spare tire you've tried to lose for the past 10 years of 'dieting'.

[Simple Simon]

i dont think there is 'a way'. i think everyone is individual- what works for me wont work for you

Totally agree.
People ask me how I eat, what I take and watch me train, and then moan if them doing the same produces different results.

Find out what works for you then go with it.

[no one]

Totally agree.
People ask me how I eat, what I take and watch me train, and then moan if them doing the same produces different results.

Find out what works for you then go with it.

exactly.

it all ties in. your personality. the way your body reacts to certain foods. all of it.

everyone wants an answer. fuck i've been doing this 20 years and im still trying to figure it out.

[MCWAY]

If tons of huge people can get by on little protein, I think that should be proof enough. Steroids and other PEDs increase protein synthesis, so serious bodybuilders who are juiced up would be able to get by with even less.

As well, people don't create pounds of muscles each night when their body slowly repairs damaged muscle tissues. We're talking about microscopic amounts. This is why you don't need to eat pounds of protein each day. It's probably in the milligram or microgram range anyway. I don't see why people kill their kidneys with a half pound of protein a day. Fucking stupid if you think about it. Protein is so expensive. Instead of focusing on a shitload, focus on a smaller amount of higher quality protein.

You're forgetting about factors like age and slowing metabolism. There's a difference between what bodybuilders did to get most of their size and what they do to maintain or gain mass as a slower pace.

I each less protein now than I did 15-20 years ago (and fewer calories overall). Yet, I can make decent gains or maintain my bodyweight around 225-230. Back in the day, there's no way I would have even broken 200 lb eating the way I eat now.

Mike Francois was one of my favorite bodybuilders in the 90s. He told of how he send about 2 years on a 10,000-per-day diet, which got him from competing as a light-heavyweight to a BIG heavyweight (superheavyweight, by today's standards). He bulked up to 265 or 270, carved down to 230 and started kicking butt at the national level, eventually winning the NPC Nationals in 1993.

But, as he started competing as a pro (winning his first two shows, including the 1994 NOC), he stated he no longer ate ten grand in calories. He didn't need it to keep his size.

[Simple Simon]

You're forgetting about factors like age and slowing metabolism. There's a difference between what bodybuilders did to get most of their size and what they do to maintain or gain mass as a slower pace.

I each less protein now than I did 15-20 years ago (and fewer calories overall). Yet, I can make decent gains or maintain my bodyweight around 225-230. Back in the day, there's no way I would have even broken 200 lb eating the way I eat now.

Mike Francois was one of my favorite bodybuilders in the 90s. He told of how he send about 2 years on a 10,000-per-day diet, which got him from competing as a light-heavyweight to a BIG heavyweight (superheavyweight, by today's standards). He bulked up to 265 or 270, carved down to 230 and started kicking butt at the national level, eventually winning the NPC Nationals in 1993.

But, as he started competing as a pro (winning his first two shows, including the 1994 NOC), he stated he no longer ate ten grand in calories. He didn't need it to keep his size.

I call bullshit on these claims, eating 10,000 cals a day for a long period of time is impossible, the amount of food you have to not only eat but shit out is ridiculous.

I challenge anyone to eat 10,000 a day for a week.

[MCWAY]

I call bullshit on these claims, eating 10,000 cals a day for a long period of time is impossible, the amount of food you have to not only eat but shit out is ridiculous.

I challenge anyone to eat 10,000 a day for a week.

Eating 10,000 in calories in a chore but not impossible, especially when you can drink a lot of your calories in protein shakes.s\

In college, I spend about 3-4 months taking in 5000-6000 calories per day. Half of that was either from shakes like Mega Mass 2000 or homemade protein shakes made from eggs and milk.

[Simple Simon]

Eating 10,000 in calories in a chore but not impossible, especially when you can drink a lot of your calories in protein shakes.s\

In college, I spend about 3-4 months taking in 5000-6000 calories per day. Half of that was either from shakes like Mega Mass 2000 or homemade protein shakes made from eggs and milk.

Thanks for validating my point.

[Viking11]

The age old bodybuilding question about how much protein our bodies can absorb in a single meal.

Ultimately, homeostasis rules the day. Total protein consumption over the course of a day (or a few days or a week) is what matters. Millions of years of evolution has saw to it that our bodies can adapt to use the fuel and nutrients we consume appropriately.

Everyone's body has a protein demand i.e. daily requirement of X grams of protein - this is determined by muscle mass, training status, injury, stress/illness etc. You meet that daily demand by consuming protein - your body will take and use what it needs, whether you eat all your protein in 1 or 8 meals per day. Excess protein is de-aminated (the nitrogen is removed and converted into urea for excretion - most expensive piss on the planet).

Following the removal of the amino-group, it is converted into a fuel molecule (just like a carb or fat). This fuel molecule is either burned or stored as fat depending on the state of your energy balance (i.e. calories in vs calories out). Because of the extra steps involved in converting an amino acid into a fuel source, protein is an inefficient fuel source for the body, hence its preference to burn carbs first, then fat, then protein last.

 

Best explanation I have seen on this. Thank you!

[MCWAY]

Thanks for validating my point.

Not really! I stated 3-4 months, simply because my goal at that time (during that particular semester) was to reach 200 lbs, starting at a bodyweight of 189. I ended up at 210, far exceeding my goal. But, it's not as if I went back to eating 2000 calories a day when that semester ended.

Perhaps, I should have clarified that. I didn't spend a mere 3-4 months (out of my entire time in college) eating like that. Counting summer breaks and factoring in the transition time from being in school to finding a summer job (and the financial impact that goes with it), I'd say I followed such a diet for at least 18 months.

[Thin Lizzy]

The IF folks would say that grazing keeps insulin levels fluctuating wildly all day long.

IF has been getting shat upon as of late (and I am sure that TA will float in here with a picture of a pecan pie and a "you're all idiots"), but it seems to me that if one assumes that:

- eating shifts insulin levels
- shifting insulin levels make an anabolic environment hard to predict

Then minimizing the insulin shift might be important. I didn't mind fasted training, but felt a LITTLE be better unfasted.

The problem I see with eating small meals all day, especially ones containing complex carbs is that your body is always processing the carbs via an insulin response and whatever fat you eat ends up in storage.

In other words, complex carbs are doing fat's job, providing a stable, slow burning source of energy, and fats end up on the bench.

[ProudVirgin69]

Not really! I stated 3-4 months, simply because my goal at that time (during that particular semester) was to reach 200 lbs, starting at a bodyweight of 189. I ended up at 210, far exceeding my goal. But, it's not as if I went back to eating 2000 calories a day when that semester ended.

Perhaps, I should have clarified that. I didn't spend a mere 3-4 months (out of my entire time in college) eating like that. Counting summer breaks and factoring in the transition time from being in school to finding a summer job (and the financial impact that goes with it), I'd say I followed such a diet for at least 18 months.

You said eating 10, 000 calories consistently for months on end was not impossible.  To "support" your claim you provided an anecdote about how you ate 5000-6000 calories for a couple months.

Can you see the discrepancy? 

[Simple Simon]

Not really! I stated 3-4 months, simply because my goal at that time (during that particular semester) was to reach 200 lbs, starting at a bodyweight of 189. I ended up at 210, far exceeding my goal. But, it's not as if I went back to eating 2000 calories a day when that semester ended.

Perhaps, I should have clarified that. I didn't spend a mere 3-4 months (out of my entire time in college) eating like that. Counting summer breaks and factoring in the transition time from being in school to finding a summer job (and the financial impact that goes with it), I'd say I followed such a diet for at least 18 months.

You were eating 5-6000 not 10,000, that was your validation of my point. 

[wild willie]

Why not just generally eat when you want, if you're hungry.

Eat what you want, as long as you're not being a total ass about what you eat (i.e. go eat from the four food groups, eat lots of good foods, not too much junk, just like mom would tell you). Follow the grandmother approach - if your grandma was a little girl again in the 1940's and wouldn't recognize the food you're eating, you probably shouldn't eat it.

Most importantly, as this study points out (and the lion's share of studies point out): DO NOT EAT MORE THAN YOU NEED TO EAT OR YOU WILL GET FAT


God, we love to over-complicate what is actually a simple concept. Solutions are only beautiful when they're simple. Dieting is the same way. It can be extremely simple, and should be.

It's not rocket science. And we all know it. But we are enamored with complexity, shiny new things, and what we think we might be missing out on.

Excellent post!!! I agree with you wholeheartedly!