Author Topic: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?  (Read 22017 times)

Man of Steel

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2014, 01:16:56 PM »

none of that qualifies as  independent unbiased evidence.  It's conjecture,  hearsay and interpretation.   Some of it such as some of the writings of Josephus are forgeries.

Now of course you can delve into the intracicies of these claims and support them fully, correct?

We can start with the Josephus forgeries if you prefer.


Agnostic007

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2014, 01:26:27 PM »
oh boy....

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #77 on: March 31, 2014, 01:28:20 PM »
Now of course you can delve into the intracicies of these claims and support them fully, correct?

We can start with the Josephus forgeries if you prefer.




Why dont you start.  You supported none of these claims.  And you can't quote the bible if you want your sources to be unbiased and independent.

I think we can agree that the bible contains the Christian God's holy scriptures, yes?

So perhaps if we had some of the following that would be considered quality evidence for God:

-- archeological relics that verify the existence of places and people in the bible

-- extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry, death and resurrection

-- multiple, independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life, death and resurrection.  

-- the fulfillment of prophetic claims spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment

Would you accept any of that evidence?

Man of Steel

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #78 on: March 31, 2014, 01:37:00 PM »

Why dont you start.  You supported none of these claims.  And you can't quote the bible if you want your sources to be unbiased and independent.


Ok, that's not a problem...if you'd prefer I go first I will.  And you're corect I just put up some varying "buckets" of evidence.  I'll post up some lists of specifics I've compiled.

"can't quote the bible".....that's a classic I haven't heard in awhile.  Goes right along with your "you can't quote theological and apologetic writings" from this morning.  

You let me know if references to Jesus Christ are off limits as well LOL.   ::)


tbombz

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #79 on: March 31, 2014, 03:40:50 PM »
A person who believe in god from the heart dont mention about God that much.
the person who truly believes in their heart in  God ... that person can neever stop proclaiming Gods great glory.

The Scott

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #80 on: March 31, 2014, 04:05:03 PM »
There, there, frightened little one.  Yes, yes, I am angry that a non-existent deity gave me inferior genetics.  I am also mad that Santa never brought me what I wanted for Christmas even though I was a good boy.  Thankyou for praying for me, even though a GOD may find that insulting, because you are essentially suggesting he fucked everything up in the first place and you have noticed this and are now humbly asking him to fix his mistakes.  I am sure an all powerful, omniscient and vengeful deity such as GOD will be grateful that you, his sinful and pathetic creation, through your prayers point out his shortcomings.

Translation:  "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaa!!!"

Grow up, you pathetic baby.  What are you trying to do, audition for your own reality show called, "Keeping up with the Tardashians"?   I say we christen you, "Scarecrow".

Lord you are a stupid, rude, man-child.  If God truly does exist then the least we can do is direct Him toward your utterly retarded ramblings on Him so that He may amuse Himself at His greatest failure - You.

The use of "Scarecrow" as your new name is in reference to the character in the Wizard of Oz.  You really do need a brain.


Radical Plato

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #81 on: March 31, 2014, 06:06:08 PM »
I think we can agree that the bible contains the Christian God's holy scriptures, yes?

So perhaps if we had some of the following that would be considered quality evidence for God:

-- archeological relics that verify the existence of places and people in the bible

-- extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry, death and resurrection

-- multiple, independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life, death and resurrection.  

-- the fulfillment of prophetic claims spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment

Would you accept any of that evidence?
Not of a God.  There is NO EVIDENCE that any human being has ever been resurrected, that is simply nonsense.  Any account of biblical places and people is simply evidence that a bunch of deluded desert dwellers once existed.  If there was a GOD, he would be all powerful, he would know what it would take to convince me and the rest of humanity.  GOD could simply choose to perform whatever that was to get me on board the GOD train, no need to make himself so scarce and unavailable and only reach out to the stupid.  Just use your infinite powers to expose yourself to humanity.  The huge difficulty with your task is trying yo prove something that doesn't exist does in fact exist, it is impossible.
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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #82 on: April 01, 2014, 06:16:32 AM »
Not of a God.  There is NO EVIDENCE that any human being has ever been resurrected, that is simply nonsense.  Any account of biblical places and people is simply evidence that a bunch of deluded desert dwellers once existed.  If there was a GOD, he would be all powerful, he would know what it would take to convince me and the rest of humanity.  GOD could simply choose to perform whatever that was to get me on board the GOD train, no need to make himself so scarce and unavailable and only reach out to the stupid.  Just use your infinite powers to expose yourself to humanity.  The huge difficulty with your task is trying yo prove something that doesn't exist does in fact exist, it is impossible.

I can lead anyone to Christ in the next 30 seconds and he will reveal to that person exactly who he is.  

The thing I often experience is that so many adults don't want to be lead, don't ever want to be held accountable or even suggested to that there's another way to exist different from their own.  So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting God to them.  They don't want God in their lives and they certainly don't need God in their lives.  

It's taken me a long time to realize that I can't overcome that and that was hard for me to process, but then I finally realized it was never my purpose to "change people".  Why?  I can't....I'm nobody.

anabolichalo

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #83 on: April 01, 2014, 03:49:47 PM »
the problem with religion is it promises prosperity but only collects tithes

The Scott

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #84 on: April 01, 2014, 06:54:00 PM »
I can lead anyone to Christ in the next 30 seconds and he will reveal to that person exactly who he is.  

The thing I often experience is that so many adults don't want to be lead, don't ever want to be held accountable or even suggested to that there's another way to exist different from their own.  So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting God to them.  They don't want God in their lives and they certainly don't need God in their lives.  

It's taken me a long time to realize that I can't overcome that and that was hard for me to process, but then I finally realized it was never my purpose to "change people".  Why?  I can't....I'm nobody.

MOS, my friend.  With regard to your post above and its intended recipient E-Kul...

You can lead a horse to living water but you can't make it drink.  Alas, a pig like E-Kul thirsts not for living water, but instead wants only to wallow in the mud of his own making.  Shake the dust of him from your feet before he turns that dust into mud. 




Radical Plato

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #85 on: April 01, 2014, 07:13:28 PM »
I can lead anyone to Christ in the next 30 seconds and he will reveal to that person exactly who he is.  

The thing I often experience is that so many adults don't want to be lead, don't ever want to be held accountable or even suggested to that there's another way to exist different from their own.  So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting God to them.  They don't want God in their lives and they certainly don't need God in their lives.  

It's taken me a long time to realize that I can't overcome that and that was hard for me to process, but then I finally realized it was never my purpose to "change people".  Why?  I can't....I'm nobody.
The irony of your argument is that is the way atheists feel, they learnt that Religious people don't want to be taught the joys of reasoning, of learning to rely on oneself and not rely on delusions to get one through life.  To let go of their fear and face it, without the need for an imaginary protector.  A religious person could never accept that there's another way to exist different from their own.  So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting Reality to them.  They don't want reason and rationality in their lives and they certainly don't need Intellectual honesty in their lives.  
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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #86 on: April 01, 2014, 08:21:17 PM »
The irony of your argument is that is the way atheists feel, they learnt that Religious people don't want to be taught the joys of reasoning, of learning to rely on oneself and not rely on delusions to get one through life.  To let go of their fear and face it, without the need for an imaginary protector.  A religious person could never accept that there's another way to exist different from their own.  So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting Reality to them.  They don't want reason and rationality in their lives and they certainly don't need Intellectual honesty in their lives. 

Keep wallowing, little piggy.   And we "get it", you can shut up now, piggy. 

Radical Plato

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #87 on: April 01, 2014, 09:01:37 PM »
Keep wallowing, little piggy.   And we "get it", you can shut up now, piggy. 
I rest my case your Honour.
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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #88 on: April 02, 2014, 06:00:50 AM »
I didn't present an argument.  I presented a simple comment about leading others to Christ.  I then presented an observation based on experience concerning the reactions of so many I've spoken to about Christ.  I also presented a realization about myself.

The irony of your argument is that is the way atheists feel, they learnt that Religious people don't want to be taught the joys of reasoning, of learning to rely on oneself and not rely on delusions to get one through life.

The pursuit of reasoning and learning and truth is all I engage in each and every day.   I simply desired to know the reality of God and then experienced it....I took proactive steps to do so according to his terms.  You refuse to.  My experience and ability to reason is more well-rounded than yours because I've actively engaged in both sides.

To let go of their fear and face it, without the need for an imaginary protector.

Believers come to Christ because they recognize the sin in their lives, don't want to live in sin any longer and choose to be reconciled with God.  Although, everyone on this planet can live their entire life without God in it.  As I mentioned in another thread yesterday, God did not promise that within this life we would never stub our toes, break our arms, get the flu or lose or lives.  He did promise that believers will also suffer ridicule and rejection.  Despite that, we will exist in this life just like everyone else; although, we have changed our minds about our sin and accepted Christ's offer to be reconciled with him and choose to represent him and share him with others.

A religious person could never accept that there's another way to exist different from their own.

I've already lived part of my without Christ so I've very clearly experienced a different way to exist.

So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting Reality to them.  

I've already lived in the reality of this world without Christ and indulged in so many things it has to offer.  

They don't want reason and rationality in their lives and they certainly don't need Intellectual honesty in their lives.

The pursuit of reasoning and learning and truth is all I engage in each and every day.  I've already studied university level math, accounting, finance, marketing, management, biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, statistics, physics, genetics, sociology, psychology, geography, philosophy, world history, literature, etc......today I study theology, logic, faith, religion and apologetics (and I have a lot to learn!).  

Now I know you prefer the last word so feel free to enjoy it.

Man of Steel

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #89 on: April 02, 2014, 11:29:20 AM »
Ok, that's not a problem...if you'd prefer I go first I will.  And you're corect I just put up some varying "buckets" of evidence.  I'll post up some lists of specifics I've compiled.

"can't quote the bible".....that's a classic I haven't heard in awhile.  Goes right along with your "you can't quote theological and apologetic writings" from this morning.   

You let me know if references to Jesus Christ are off limits as well LOL.   ::)



In the process of compiling my lists.

Agnostic007

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2014, 11:39:51 AM »
I can lead anyone to Christ in the next 30 seconds and he will reveal to that person exactly who he is.  

The thing I often experience is that so many adults don't want to be lead, don't ever want to be held accountable or even suggested to that there's another way to exist different from their own.  So many hate the notion that they somehow lack something or need something and so many resent people like me for even presenting God to them.  They don't want God in their lives and they certainly don't need God in their lives.  

It's taken me a long time to realize that I can't overcome that and that was hard for me to process, but then I finally realized it was never my purpose to "change people".  Why?  I can't....I'm nobody.


I can in the next 30 seconds produce a purple elephant fluent in 12 languages and can play the guitar. The problem is, I find most people don't allow their hearts and minds to open up to the possiblity this elephant exists, and therefore, are unfortantley unable to see it...... 

Man of Steel

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2014, 12:01:00 PM »

I can in the next 30 seconds produce a purple elephant fluent in 12 languages and can play the guitar. The problem is, I find most people don't allow their hearts and minds to open up to the possiblity this elephant exists, and therefore, are unfortantley unable to see it......  


I'm in 100%!  No joke whatsoever.   Hey, if you are testifying to this account I will humble myself because I truly desire to experience this like you have.....I'm absolutely ready to believe.

Just lead me to it and help me experience it.

Agnostic007

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #92 on: April 02, 2014, 12:05:42 PM »
I'm in 100%!  No joke whatsoever.   Hey, if you are testifying to this account I will humble myself because I truly desire to experience this like you have.....I'm absolutely ready to believe.

Just lead me to it and help me experience it.

Being Christian, you of course understand that if you don't see it, it will not prove that didn't exist, only that you really weren't trying.  ;)

Man of Steel

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #93 on: April 02, 2014, 12:10:38 PM »
Being Christian, you of course understand that if you don't see it, it will not prove that didn't exist, only that you really weren't trying.  ;)

Being Christian I can assure you of the reality of Christ in your life.  My faith isn't blind....it's rock solid and confident.  I can't force anyone to take steps they don't want to though.

Agnostic007

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #94 on: April 02, 2014, 12:15:30 PM »
Being Christian I can assure you of the reality of Christ in your life.  My faith isn't blind....it's rock solid and confident.  I can't force anyone to take steps they don't want to though.

As I can assure you the reality of the talented elephant

Man of Steel

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #95 on: April 02, 2014, 12:23:33 PM »
As I can assure you the reality of the talented elephant

And I told you I'm fully ready to experience it.....lead me on.

catracho

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #96 on: April 02, 2014, 12:29:21 PM »
I don't understand why God (sky fairy) bothers some people so much.  They waste so much time hating something they claim doesn't exist.  If someone believes and it doesn't affect you, then what is the problem? That being said, ANYTHING taken to extremes is dangerous and unhealthy. 

Man of Steel

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #97 on: April 02, 2014, 12:33:03 PM »
I don't understand why God (sky fairy) bothers some people so much.  They waste so much time hating something they claim doesn't exist.  If someone believes and it doesn't affect you, then what is the problem? That being said, ANYTHING taken to extremes is dangerous and unhealthy. 

Your post attempts to support a notion of tolerance yet why couldn't you leave out the "sky fairy" potshot?  These types of remarks are like uncontrollable ticks by so many unbelievers.

catracho

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #98 on: April 02, 2014, 12:38:23 PM »
The "sky fairy" is what the nonbelivers call God in an earlier post.  It wasn't a pot shot it anyway. 

Man of Steel

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Re: Do people believe in GOD simply because there is NO GOD?
« Reply #99 on: April 02, 2014, 12:39:50 PM »
The "sky fairy" is what the nonbelivers call God in an earlier post.  It wasn't a pot shot it anyway. 

My apologies.....I didn't see that and my mistake.  Thanks for clarifying!