Author Topic: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like  (Read 39971 times)

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #225 on: April 18, 2014, 03:25:08 PM »
So Van, all of this being said. If CNS recovery was that long how do you explain WS breaking records on a weekly basis? I also understand that records WON'T be broken every week but the intent is there. We follow a westside template in my gym and it works, a record is broken in some lift main lift each week.



I'm not sure you understand how they do that. About 4 years ago I went a whole year doing good mornings/deadlifts 3 days per week, trying to hit a PR each time! Now how can this be done with what I've said in previous posts? You rotate exercises, variations of those exercises and rep ranges frequently. They can't add weight to say a conventional deadlift or squat each week or they would all be squatting 3000lbs in a year. You stall on a lift variation and move to something else, look at your log book and try to beat your previous bests in that particular variation of a lift. My memory is a bit fuzzy but isn't there a term called circa max? Which, IIRC, is an approximate max and not a do or die lift necessarily. If I'm wrong please correct me here.

I also think you using those Westside methods is a bit ridiculous considering your clientele. The few videos you've put up those guys don't even look too comfortable with basic squatting technique for example. There's a lot more to be said about using the Westside methods for rank beginners, guys not doing suited powerlifting loaded up on a ton of drugs (Louie says naturals are bunch pussies). I think it's too complicated, and "dynamic effort" work is pretty damn ridiculous for your clientele. But that's just me... I'm no trainer, especially not for decades such as yourself.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #226 on: April 18, 2014, 03:30:46 PM »
What a colossal waste of time.

You guys are a fucking joke, you are weightlifting FFS, you're not going on a journey to the far side of the sun.

If you really consider it, everything in life is utterly useless. We can attempt to create meaning out of different things for ourselves... but we'll all be dead very soon. We all do ridiculous things. My friend finds meaning in what he does, I find meaning in bettering my lifts in the gym... it's just my way. What do you do that is so important to humanity? And if we were going to the far side of the sun... what's the use in that? At least my buddy doesn't post on any forums. Here you are wasting precious time trolling and me trying to be all serious with a bunch of jokers LOL.

I'm a Satanist (joke) but this bible verse comes to mind LOL

Quote
The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #227 on: April 18, 2014, 03:34:11 PM »
Has your friend ever considered the deleterious effects that taking an NSAID for such prolonged time can have??

GI track (NSAID's can cause gastric ulcers by way of their ability to reduce the presence of prostaglandins in the epithelial layer of the stomach, which allows for gastric acid to erose the inner lining of the stomach)

Clotting abilities (NSAID's interfere with platelet function)

Overall kidney health (NSAIDs can lead to both acute and chronic kidney injury including hemodynamically-mediated acute kidney injury, electrolyte and acid-base disorders, acute interstitial nephritis, which may be accompanied by the nephrotic syndrome, and papillary necrosis)

Have you spoken to him about this before?

"1"

Of course. His doc keeps writing a script for him so I guess the doc thinks the dose he's on is fine. I'm sure there's tons of people on long term NSAID therapy. But I have said it can be bad, his response is well then I'll have to stop training and working. It's not an option for him. I'm sure he would hang himself before stopping training.

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #228 on: April 18, 2014, 03:45:54 PM »
Of course. His doc keeps writing a script for him so I guess the doc thinks the dose he's on is fine. I'm sure there's tons of people on long term NSAID therapy. But I have said it can be bad, his response is well then I'll have to stop training and working. It's not an option for him. I'm sure he would hang himself before stopping training.

That's what Tom Prince thought as well....  :'(

"1"

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #229 on: April 18, 2014, 03:54:43 PM »
That's what Tom Prince thought as well....  :'(

"1"

Yeah but he took like 30 tabs a day, absolutely massive overdoses. Some substances can be quite safe up to a certain level, until you exhaust the antioxidant capability of the liver with an overdose of acetaminophen for example. But I think a few of those NSAIDs have been taken off the market for causing damage even in prescribed doses.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #230 on: April 18, 2014, 03:59:41 PM »
When I say I go to failure at every workout,I`m not talking about the most weight I have ever used in my life for max reps on an exercise,I`m talking about multiple sets,multiple exercise movements, with muscle failure on each set of said movements.

1 hard workout per month = "over training resting".  :D

Poundages do vary on these movements from week to week, but I`m not trying to set strength records,I`m just training as hard as I can on any given day according to how I feel.

I could give 2 flying fucks if I ever deadlift 600 pounds.

Let me ask you a serious question. I'm not trying to put you down, just trying to make a point. How much lean bodyweight have put on in the past 10-20 years?

(if you did deadlift 600lbs at your age and weight you would be one thick son a of a bitch, belee dat)

Mawse

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #231 on: April 18, 2014, 04:06:28 PM »
when I used to train as a PLer I was fucked all the time, could only train a couple of work sets, and only 3 training sessions a week...we all needed Ammonia and handfuls of ephedrine to function.

It takes it out of you, especially in single ply (much heavier weights than your CNS is designed to handle). Lowering 600-700 to your chest or some stupid boards every week, pulling 700-800 in briefs or in bands, always doing triples, using chains etc, all destroys you

its absolutely the worst possible way to train for bodybuilding, despite what Dante Strudle and Jason Manboobs say, these days I do moderate weight, lots of sets and can train 5-6 days a week without feeling in the least bit ground down.


LittleJ

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #232 on: April 18, 2014, 04:52:44 PM »
I want to train with Coach Joe but I'm dark.

wes

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #233 on: April 18, 2014, 05:15:30 PM »
Let me ask you a serious question. I'm not trying to put you down, just trying to make a point. How much lean bodyweight have put on in the past 10-20 years?

(if you did deadlift 600lbs at your age and weight you would be one thick son a of a bitch, belee dat)
I definiately see your point,but we were talking about training to failure.

Can`t compare bodybuilding workouts to powerlifting workouts IMO.

I started out competing in powerlifting back in the early to mid 70`s,so I`ve done both.

Lord of the Roidz

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #234 on: April 18, 2014, 05:36:36 PM »
Yes of course he can be right. But the point is he has an opinion on something he never did himself. So is personal experience always necessary?

If it is then Coach can only advice on reaching this level. A tiny tit, a good looking tiny tit but a tiny tit nonetheless :D:


Certainly you can produce a pic destroying this Tiny tit....with your amazing drug knowlege..Oh wait, i think I've seen a pic of you once...Do you even lift? lol

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #235 on: April 18, 2014, 07:41:32 PM »
Van, here is something I think you should read because coming from me isn't going to mean anything to you. As you know I'm a big westside fan as well as Louie Simmons. You do have guys like Chad Wesley Smith who downplays the Westside method in favor of his Juggernaut system but he's still young and although strong, I don't buy into his system simply because he hasn't been around long enough. But hey, if it works for someone then all the power to them. But I've been using the Westside template for years because it works. Of course I don't use it on everyone but as far as my athletes, I can't think of a better strength system. Circa max IMO, is just Max effort or 5% or so below.


There are three methods of strength training.

 1. Maximal effort method: lifting a maximal load against a maximal resistance.
 2. Repetition method: lifting a nonmaximal load to failure; during the final repetitions, the muscles develop the maximum force possible in a fatigued state.
 3. Dynamic effort: lifting a nonmaximal load with maximal speed.

 (See: Science and Practice of Strength Training, V. Zatsiorsky.)

 The max effort method is superior to the other common methods. It improves intermuscular and intramuscular coordination, because the body will adapt to only the stimulus placed upon it. The max effort method will produce the greatest strength gains. While it is not uncommon to suffer fatigue, high blood pressure at rest, anxiety, and depression from using this method, it is the most popular among top athletes and lifters. It should not be used for small exercises but for the clean, snatch, squat, bench, and deadlift.

 The old Soviet Union used it and Westside Barbell uses it for special exercises such as good mornings, box squats, rack pulls, and many forms of squatting. Because the body muscular system and the CNS adapt quickly, we do a new exercise each week to avoid accommodation. The core exercises must be close in biomechanical parameters to the classical lifts, power or Olympic. Doctor Squat said it best, “If light weights make you strong, why not lift just light weights?” Of course we know he was right, and that’s why the max effort method works best.

 Hill determined that the speed of movement is dependent on maximum muscular strength. Did you hear that, football strength coaches? Physics states that maximum force is attained when velocity is small. Consequently, maximum velocity is attained when external resistance is near zero (Theory and Practice of Physical Culture). Why do I bring this up? Do you want to be faster and stronger?

 A study in Strength and Power in Sport by P. Komi showed the greatest weightlifters in the world lifted the heaviest weights the slowest. This simply shows it is better to have a high level of strength over speed. I have been using this system at Westside since 1983. I started talking about the books I was learning from by Bud Charniga, who had translated them from Russian. Many have read some of the books, but have not considered the number of lifts, or the percentages that are determined with the Olympic lifts. This will not work with the power lifts.

 Olympic lifts have a bar speed of 1.2 to 1.4 meters per second (mps) in the first pull. A second pull of 2.2 mps can be attained. Top powerlifts are 0.5 to 0.7 mps. Olympic lifting is primarily a speed strength sport. The time under tension is brief. The powerlifts are quite a different story. It is a strength speed or slow strength sport. This means the training percentages would be somewhat higher. Even Olympic lifts are seldom less than 70% of a one-rep max.

 Statistics that showed the breakdown of Olympic lifts by percents of a one-rep max showed the distributions of loads as follows:

 49.5% of the lifts are from 75% to 85%

 27.1% of the lifts are above 85%

 Remember, this is based on Olympic lifts, which are much faster than powerlifts. While max force production occurs at 4 tenths of a second, you must maintain it until the lift is complete. As mentioned, 85% of a one-rep max is used the most, so we try to wave from 75% to 85% in three-week waves. Only 23.4% of the lifts are performed at 70% or below of a one-rep max. These statistics were based on 780 highly qualified weightlifters. The study was done by A. D. Ermakov and N. S. Atanasov in 1975.

 The Westside max effort method is a combination of the Bulgarian system, the former Soviet Union system, and my 43 years of powerlifting with over 85 Elite powerlifters. There are all body types in powerlifting, as you well know. The Soviet Union was very vast geographically, leading to different body types and ethnic groups to choose from. This means they used a lot of exercises to develop their lifters’ shortcomings. Sounds just like Westside.

 In the book Strength and Power in Sport by P. Komi, A. Vorobyev states that the Soviet team would do 20,000 lifts, classical and special combined, per year. Of those, 600 were maximal lifts (new records). The lifters were chosen after a three-year preparatory phase of base work was performed to ensure they were suited to handle the work loads, physical and psychologically. This is known as the “rule of three”. The Soviet weightlifters were more diversified than their Bulgarian counterparts.

 While the Soviet team was tremendous, the Bulgarian team was amazing, under coach Ivan Abadjiev. The Bulgarian team would choose only model weightlifters, meaning they fit the height and weight index. Bulgaria is about the size of Ohio. Both the junior and senior national teams trained together under a few coaches led tightly by Abadjiev. It was his way or no way. If a lifter could not handle the stress of constantly using max or near-max lifts, they were replaced, whereas the Soviet team did two workouts a day, which were composed of pulls, good mornings, and squats.

 Westside also trains two times a day; the difference is the second workout, which is directed toward a specific body part or parts, such as low back, lats, and abs or triceps, traps, and hammer curls. The Bulgarian coach, Abadjiev, chose to limit the training to six lifts: power snatch, snatch, power clean, clean and jerk, and front and back squat. After warming up they would do 6 max singles in the power snatch or snatch. This was done in 45 minutes to keep testosterone levels as high as possible. Then, they took a 30-minute rest and then did power clean and jerks, clean and jerks, or front or back squats. This amounts to 18 near-max lifts that are done every day, one in the morning session, again in the afternoon, and the third one in the evening. This added up to 18 near-max lifts in one day. The pulls and squats were trained this way all the time. Remember, they were very select in choosing the lifters who could handle the stress of training like this 6 days a week plus formally structured training on good mornings and back squats. Their system is what I based our max effort days on.

 Max effort days are lifting as heavy as possible depending on the lifter’s capabilities at the present time. This means that even though you may not be going to a contest, you are training like the lifters that are. Let’s look at the two systems. The majority of the Soviet training was centered around 75-85% of a one-rep max for about 50% of all lifts, and 20% are done at 90-100%. The Bulgarians trained mostly at 90-100% max. Circa-max weights are 90-97%. The Bulgarian system produced the highest results in weightlifting. Why? They handled the highest average weights most often. It’s that simple. Yes, they had used a very select group of lifters, but that system was the best.

 I had the pleasure of spending a day at Westside with a former Bulgarian weightlifting team doctor. He said many could not perform the tasks asked of the lifters. More times than not, it was the psychological stress and not the physical demands that stopped the lifter’s progress. I have seen the same at Westside. Handling weights above 90% for 3 weeks in the classical lifts can cause a lack of progress from accommodation or not varying the routine. At Westside, we change the max effort lift each week. This avoids the staleness syndrome, by doing exercises that are similar to but not actually the regular squat, bench press, and deadlift.

 Westside has developed a system of maxing out on nonclassical lifts. This allows us to eliminate the negative responses of training close to a maximum competition weight. The same negative response can occur with the special lifts Westside uses to max out on if we repeated the same lift each week. But remember we switch lifts every week to avoid this. You must remember the muscles and CNS adapt only to the load placed upon them. Zatsiorsky states that the maximal effort method brings forth the greatest strength increments, and CNS inhibition, if it exists, is reduced with this approach.

 Now we know that the max effort method is superior to others. One must train at the highest average of a one-rep max as often as possible. I realized for most lifters this is impossible to do every workout. That’s why we use the dynamic effort method. We use sub-maximal weights with maximal speed. Our squat training is mostly around 75-85% for multiple sets with briefs and a belt. Remember what Doctor Squat said? “If light weights work, why not use light weights?” But they don’t.

 When Chuck Vogelpohl trained at Westside, he handled the heaviest average weights when he squatted and deadlifted. He was our best squatter, setting world records in the 220 and 275 weight classes and now at 242 in a different gym. Now Greg Panora handles the heaviest weights if you average the squat, bench press, and deadlift, and he has dominated the 242 world record total. Look at Big Iron and I am sure you will see the same.

 Zatsiorsky states “It’s impossible to exert a large amount of force against a small mass.” Dr. Hatfield was right. The men and women who can recruit the most muscle units are the strongest. The maximal effort method does just that. The next best method is the circa-max method, which uses 90-97½ % of a one-rep max. The circa-max method differs in that it can include multiple sets of 1 or 2 reps per set up to 10 total lifts per workout. It is worth noting that the Bulgarians had great restoration methods, such as whirlpools, saunas, massage, and others at their disposal.

 You seldom calculate weights under 70%. The Soviets’ and Westside training is very similar in that the squats and pulls are mostly in the 75% to 85% range on dynamic day and always working up to a current max on max effort day. Remember, some supportive gear is almost always worn. On dynamic bench day, the percent is very low, 40-50%, but no gear is worn and there are always bands or chains on the bar. When the dynamic method is used, the muscles are contracted very fast and forcefully. I would personally experience more soreness on speed day. The dynamic method was developed to replace a max effort day for those who could not handle two max effort workouts a week. This helped me in the early years (1983) to recover from a bad back injury. I could not handle two max effort lower and upper body workouts per week, so we changed over to the dynamic method to make one day a fast day, not a light day, and keep the heavy day, or max effort day, because we knew the heaviest weight lifted in the gym would materialize into meet records if done correctly.

 On dynamic day, stay with the percent program. Use a suit with the straps down or briefs only. Train in a 3-week pendulum wave at 50-60% of a contest max. The following are examples:

 400 to 480 pounds training weight = 800 squat

 450 to 540 = 900 squat

 500 to 600 = 1000 squat

 Also use chains or bands.

 This is very systematic, but as you can see, with this mathematical formula the stronger squatter uses the heaviest weights; it’s that simple. So use the max effort method to set standards,.

 In 1974 Prilepin carried out a series of experiments with high-level weightlifters. One group trained at 70% of a one-rep max. The second group used 80% of a one-rep max, and a third group used weights at 90% of a one-rep max based on his recommendations. His research found training at 90% was the most effective, 80% was the next best, and the least effective was the 70% weight. The conclusion was that training at the greater weights produced the most significant gains. Prilepin also found the best results regarding percents came from using an optimal number of lifts: 18 lifts at 70%, 15 lifts at 80%, and 7 lifts at 90%.

 While this article is about max effort, the other day is just as important. Prilepin also found that it was less fatiguing to do a higher number of sets and a lower number of reps. The reverse will lead to a distortion of technique. This was taken from the textbook Physical Culture Institutes by A. M. Vorobiev.

 I hope these examples have shown you what is truly important about building absolute strength. It is based on both the dynamic and max effort day. As Lelikov proved, muscle strength increases more in execution at moderate tempo, while the fast lifts gave the lowest increase in strength. If you are wondering about only the classical lifts, Medvedyev found the same to be true in special exercises as well when one becomes more proficient in the classical lifts (Weightlifting and Methods of Teaching).



 

wes

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #236 on: April 18, 2014, 07:50:58 PM »
Van, here is something I think you should read because coming from me isn't going to mean anything to you. As you know I'm a big westside fan as well as Louie Simmons. You do have guys like Chad Wesley Smith who downplays the Westside method in favor of his Juggernaut system but he's still young and although strong, I don't buy into his system simply because he hasn't been around long enough. But hey, if it works for someone then all the power to them. But I've been using the Westside template for years because it works. Of course I don't use it on everyone but as far as my athletes, I can't think of a better strength system. Circa max IMO, is just Max effort or 5% or so below.


There are three methods of strength training.

 2. Repetition method: lifting a nonmaximal load to failure; during the final repetitions, the muscles develop the maximum force possible in a fatigued state.



^^THIS^^ is what I`m talking about,and I do this 5 days a week.

My CNS is just fine.

wes

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #237 on: April 18, 2014, 07:53:40 PM »
Just wanted to add that I would much rather look like Joe in either his older pics or the newer ones that the guy Van. B posted.

Not a dig at Van,I`m just a fan of human beings.  ;)

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #238 on: April 18, 2014, 07:58:24 PM »
Just wanted to add that I would much rather look like Joe in either his older pics or the newer ones that the guy Van. B posted.

Not a dig at Van,I`m just a fan of human beings;)

lol

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #239 on: April 18, 2014, 07:58:45 PM »
I want to train with Coach Joe but I'm dark.
And a sissy.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #241 on: April 19, 2014, 01:11:55 AM »
Certainly you can produce a pic destroying this Tiny tit....with your amazing drug knowlege..Oh wait, i think I've seen a pic of you once...Do you even lift? lol
what does that have to do with anything?

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #242 on: April 19, 2014, 02:00:25 AM »
^^THIS^^ is what I`m talking about,and I do this 5 days a week.

My CNS is just fine.
Of course this is a sort of strength, but c`mon Wes if you have trained powerlifting, you must have had one repetitions lift (max) where you try and try
and the bar moves so slowly that you want to quit, but you don`t, and after many  seconds you make it (or fail).

You know that you can not be as strong as that time
one or more weeks after :), as Van said, and that must be agree with him.
The other things about drogs etc ,I don`t have so much knowledge so I can discuss it
2

wes

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #243 on: April 19, 2014, 04:12:12 AM »
Of course this is a sort of strength, but c`mon Wes if you have trained powerlifting, you must have had one repetitions lift (max) where you try and try
and the bar moves so slowly that you want to quit, but you don`t, and after many  seconds you make it (or fail).

You know that you can not be as strong as that time
one or more weeks after :), as Van said, and that must be agree with him.
The other things about drogs etc ,I don`t have so much knowledge so I can discuss it
Yes,I agree,if I did that I wouldn`t go as heavy again on that particular lift for a while..........this would be a form of periodization.

I use periodization in my training today,but for bodybuilding since the loads are not as demanding poundagewise,I can train intensely at every session,and I`m working different bodyparts at every session.

Two different animals.

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #244 on: April 19, 2014, 04:37:17 AM »
I never troll, it's not my style. I may joke a little here and there but then it's obvious. I leave the trolling to guys like you and Alex etc.

The reason I mentioned the painkillers is to make the point that all powerlifters work through aches and pains, something always hurts. My training partner
has taken diklofenac, an NSAID, every day for 10 years straight. He simply can't function without it. He does use codeine (with APAP), about 60mg which is a small dose, 3 or 4 days per week because his shoulder is so bad the pain would be too much without it.

The painkillers have nothing to do with the inability to recover instantaneously after hitting a PR (after training for 30 years every PR in the main powerlifts is a huge thing, sometimes it has taken a few years of brutal training to even add 10lbs to a lift).

Coach said something about painkillers braking down the CNS. I really want to hear this, never heard of such (quite possible I missed something with my google-fu). Sort of an aside, but I read that the old Russian weightlifting manuals mentioned they added small amounts of opiates as a recovery tool during the most taxing training periods. Coach mentions Westside powerlifters quite often, maybe he should ask around how many of those guys live on painkillers LOL. Some of these guys can't even lift their arm to drink a coffee, have to walk backwards down a flight of stairs, take a hot bath in the morning to even get out of the house LOL

I just came back from the gym, my friend missed his deadlift attempt. In his words, "That squat single on monday took too much out of me, I'm too beat up, I knew I should've taken an easy deadlift recovery session today and attempted next friday instead". This guy ain't no newbie or pussy, he has an IPF World's Gold medal in the deadlift.

If you get to the point where you become opiate tolerant you can train very hard pretty much everyday. I wouldn"t recommend it because once you become opiate tolerant it is a bitch to get off the pills. I am sure evrybody knows that. Opiates numb out alot of pain once you become tolerant and can actually train while on them.

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #245 on: April 19, 2014, 04:46:32 AM »
If you get to the point where you become opiate tolerant you can train very hard pretty much everyday. I wouldn"t recommend it because once you become opiate tolerant it is a bitch to get off the pills. I am sure evrybody knows that. Opiates numb out alot of pain once you become tolerant and can actually train while on them.
most of the opiate abusers get to tired after a couple of  years abuse to train. First  year they dont but then.

and with abusers i meab those who takes 4-5 Times what the doctor describes

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #246 on: April 19, 2014, 04:47:26 AM »
I`ve yet to see a hard training junkie.

backday

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #247 on: April 19, 2014, 04:55:53 AM »
Yes,I agree,if I did that I wouldn`t go as heavy again on that particular lift for a while..........this would be a form of periodization.

I use periodization in my training today,but for bodybuilding since the loads are not as demanding poundagewise,I can train intensely at every session,and I`m working different bodyparts at every session.

Two different animals.
Yes different I agree but both can benefit from each other with smart planning and periodization, right? at least it worked well for me :)
In regards to the powerliftings max lifts if you did that lift with squat or deathlift, you
get pretty fuckt up in almost all the big muscles of your body except maybe the pecs.

I know if you are a bodybuilder after that sort of lift you can  continue training after a few days those muscles not so involved in the lift.Me, I overtrain all the time now because my brain need it  ;D
2

wes

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #248 on: April 19, 2014, 04:56:51 AM »
Yes different I agree but both can benefit from each other with smart planning and periodization, right? at least it worked well for me :)
In regards to the powerliftings max lifts if you did that lift with squat or deathlift, you
get pretty fuckt up in almost all the big muscles of your body except maybe the pecs.

I know if you are a bodybuilder after that sort of lift you can  continue training after a few days those muscles not so involved in the lift.Me, I overtrain all the time now because my brain need it  ;D
I have no brain my friend.  :D

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like
« Reply #249 on: April 19, 2014, 05:23:12 AM »
Van, here is something I think you should read because coming from me isn't going to mean anything to you. As you know I'm a big westside fan as well as Louie Simmons. You do have guys like Chad Wesley Smith who downplays the Westside method in favor of his Juggernaut system but he's still young and although strong, I don't buy into his system simply because he hasn't been around long enough. But hey, if it works for someone then all the power to them. But I've been using the Westside template for years because it works. Of course I don't use it on everyone but as far as my athletes, I can't think of a better strength system. Circa max IMO, is just Max effort or 5% or so below.


The max effort method will produce the greatest strength gains. While it is not uncommon to suffer fatigue, high blood pressure at rest, anxiety, and depression from using this method, it is the most popular among top athletes and lifters.

Handling weights above 90% for 3 weeks in the classical lifts can cause a lack of progress from accommodation or not varying the routine. At Westside, we change the max effort lift each week. This avoids the staleness syndrome, by doing exercises that are similar to but not actually the regular squat, bench press, and deadlift.

 Westside has developed a system of maxing out on nonclassical lifts. This allows us to eliminate the negative responses of training close to a maximum competition weight. The same negative response can occur with the special lifts Westside uses to max out on if we repeated the same lift each week. But remember we switch lifts every week to avoid this.

 Now we know that the max effort method is superior to others. One must train at the highest average of a one-rep max as often as possible. I realized for most lifters this is impossible to do every workout.

 Westside training is very similar in that the squats and pulls are mostly in the 75% to 85% range on dynamic day and always working up to a current max on max effort day. Remember, some supportive gear is almost always worn.


(My editors note lol... And we always use anabolic steroids and we never come off)


See what I selected from the article. Not taxing on the CNS? LOL. Being depressed and anxious sure is a sign of a fresh CNS. And these are guys on a LOT of drugs. So I don't see where I'm wrong in anything I said.

Coach, I'm open to considering anything you say. Just make a good case for your point and I might change my mind.

here is a comment on steroids by Louie Simmons.

Quote
NM: What is your stance on the use of steroids?

LS: The dangers are way overrated. It's corticoid steroids that they inject football players with every day that will kill you! Personally, I've done anabolic steroids straight for the last 28 years.

NM: Do you cycle?

LS: No, I stay on. I don't believe in periodization in training, either. I use mostly anabolics like Equipoise and Laurabolin until it's time for a competition, and then I do the harder androgens. I do not take Anadrol. I've never had any problems. I know guys who take much more than I do, to the point where you can call it abuse, and they don't seem to have any problems, either. There's no possible way I can train the way I do without taking anabolics, but the same techniques of training apply even if you're natural. I've also used the andro products and find that they give a greater boost in aggression than steroids! At least temporarily. I use them right before training.